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And so that wouldn't fall under 'among other things'?
You're saying that you don't believe the moral deterioration of our nation contributes at all to school shootings and other violence?
Call it what you will. Its using a horrible event as a soap box to promote an agenda. It troubles me but doesn't suprise me. Its sad.
Are you saying that morality only comes from Christians? Because when I read your question I get the idea that through the transitive property of logic (I think I just made that up): Prayer in School removed --> Leads to --> Moral Deterioration--> Leads to -->school shootings. Am I reading that correctly?
Quote:
Originally Posted by Alpha8207
Also, the 'statement' you quoted is not aimed at just the VT shootings. Have you seen the video they are talking about?
1. Massacre at Virginia Tech happened on April 16, 2007
2. Video from AFA was posted on Youtube on April 19, 2007
I'll take your word that the AFA wasn't using the deaths of students and faculty to push an agenda.. My bad.
What I find so ridiculously retarded about the video is the fact that "God" or "Religion" wasn't removed from Virginia Tech. The following groups were in operation on campus:
African Christian Fellowship at Virginia Tech
Ambassadors for Christ
Campus Crusade for Christ
Chi Alpha Christian Fellowship
Christ Gospel Ministries
Cornerstone Christian Fellowship
Episcopal/Anglican Christian Fellowship
Graduate Christian Fellowship
International Christian Fellowship
Korean Campus Crusade for Christ
New Life Christian Fellowship
Also how is the statement skewed? The video clearly tries to show that because God is suppsedly removed from school (which it clearly isn't as shown above) that school shootings occur.
So again.. Buddy Smith.. runs www.silencingchristians.com or is at least registered to that site. Buddy Smith is also involved with the American Family Association which produces stories indicating that a Jewish upbringing leads to criminal lifestyle.
As such.. again.. just my opinion.. but yes I do think some "Christians" should be silenced.
I guess my question is.. do you think websites such as www.silencingchristians.com or organizations such as the American Family Association are representative of Christians?
Call it what you will. Its using a horrible event as a soap box to promote an agenda. It troubles me but doesn't suprise me. Its sad.
What agenda are they promoting, bigthirsty? That people should seek the Lord and His face and try and live what the bible teaches? As a professing Christian, what part of that 'agenda' do you find issue with?
Quote:
Originally Posted by bigthirsty
Are you saying that morality only comes from Christians? Because when I read your question I get the idea that through the transitive property of logic (I think I just made that up): Prayer in School removed --> Leads to --> Moral Deterioration--> Leads to -->school shootings. Am I reading that correctly?
No, you are not reading that correctly.
Here's what I am saying.
Morality comes from God---period.
Can an atheist be moral? Absolutely! Can a muslim, hindu, agnostic, pirate, etc be moral? Absolutely!
God sends rain on the just and the unjust, so God does not hold back some of His blessings on anyone, but morality does come from the Father. The very existence of good is from God, and everyone gets to participate in and appreciate the benefits of that 'good'.
1. Massacre at Virginia Tech happened on April 16, 2007
2. Video from AFA was posted on Youtube on April 19, 2007
Thanks for posting it. I knew I had seen it here sometime (probably right after it was created) but I could not remember when.
Quote:
Originally Posted by bigthirsty
I'll take your word that the AFA wasn't using the deaths of students and faculty to push an agenda.. My bad.
Quote:
Originally Posted by bigthirsty
What I find so ridiculously retarded about the video is the fact that "God" or "Religion" wasn't removed from Virginia Tech. The following groups were in operation on campus:
African Christian Fellowship at Virginia Tech
Ambassadors for Christ
Campus Crusade for Christ
Chi Alpha Christian Fellowship
Christ Gospel Ministries
Cornerstone Christian Fellowship
Episcopal/Anglican Christian Fellowship
Graduate Christian Fellowship
International Christian Fellowship
Korean Campus Crusade for Christ
New Life Christian Fellowship
So what? Do you think the school sponsors all those groups? Do you think those groups have been able to operate at the institutions the students came from that now attend colleges? All of those groups operate in the United States too, does that make us a nation that embraces the God you and I serve?
Quote:
Originally Posted by bigthirsty
Also how is the statement skewed? The video clearly tries to show that because God is suppsedly removed from school (which it clearly isn't as shown above) that school shootings occur.
I disagree. I believe the video shows us that rejecting God and His standards and His ways will lead to moral decay and, yes, violence. The video talks about immorality in a number of different ways.
Quote:
Originally Posted by bigthirsty
So again.. Buddy Smith.. runs www.silencingchristians.com or is at least registered to that site. Buddy Smith is also involved with the American Family Association which produces stories indicating that a Jewish upbringing leads to criminal lifestyle.
If you read the article you provided you know that accusation is weak. Extremely weak. Please--I could say someone grew up in an atheist home environment and had a hatred for Christianity and later turned to drugs and that doesn't mean I think being an atheist makes you more prone to be a criminal. That's just a sad attempt to discredit someone there, bigthirsty. You're usually the guy that runs to someone when they are attacked out of context like that.
Quote:
Originally Posted by bigthirsty
As such.. again.. just my opinion.. but yes I do think some "Christians" should be silenced.
OK. No problem.
That sentence, as written, I would agree with 100%. I would not, however, agree with that sentence if you took the quotes ("") from around the word 'Christians'. (Think about it-I'm saying real Christians wouldn't be in quotes)
Quote:
Originally Posted by bigthirsty
I guess my question is.. do you think websites such as www.silencingchristians.com or organizations such as the American Family Association are representative of Christians?
Well, I don't really know what you mean when you say 'representative of Christians'. Do I agree with every statement, every 'boycott', every stance they take? No.
But I know this, if they are covered by the blood of Christ then they are my (and your) brothers and sisters in the faith. We should pray for them. Pray they are being led by the Lord and pray that they are following His Spirit's leading. And if by some small chance they are, then I wouldn't call them 'doodie'. (Actually, I probably wouldn't call them 'doodie' even if they weren't following God)
Last edited by Alpha8207; 08-11-2008 at 09:51 AM..
Reason: removed quote
Christians can only be silenced by putting us in jail or killing us. Making laws against witnessing and sharing our testimony are against the Bible and are irrelevant. Any law against the Bible is irrelevant. I am bound for heaven, so why would a death threat deter me from sharing the Gospel, as ordered by Christ? Bring it on!
Funny thing is that everytime in history that Christans are jailed or killed, me multiply greater than before the persecution!
What agenda are they promoting, bigthirsty? That people should seek the Lord and His face and try and live what the bible teaches? As a professing Christian, what part of that 'agenda' do you find issue with?
I find serious issue with releasing a video three days after the massacre for the purposes of "drawing attention" to their agenda (i.e. get more members, i.e. get more money flowing in). Its sick.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Alpha8207
No, you are not reading that correctly.
Here's what I am saying.
Morality comes from God---period.
Can an atheist be moral? Absolutely! Can a muslim, hindu, agnostic, pirate, etc be moral? Absolutely!
God sends rain on the just and the unjust, so God does not hold back some of His blessings on anyone, but morality does come from the Father. The very existence of good is from God, and everyone gets to participate in and appreciate the benefits of that 'good'.
If God can rain on the just and unjust.. then what is the requirement for having prayer in school? Why does God need school to rain down the morality? Lets face it.. the premise of the video is that because "God is removed from school people die" thus the only conclusion that can be drawn is that by taking away Christianity in school.. morality drops.. people die.. thus Christian morality is the only morality in existence.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Alpha8207
So what? Do you think the school sponsors all those groups? Do you think those groups have been able to operate at the institutions the students came from that now attend colleges? All of those groups operate in the United States too, does that make us a nation that embraces the God you and I serve?
Why does the school need to sponsor the group? I'm guessing they support them by providing square footgage and electricity for meetings. Just like any other group on campus. Why does an institution need to sponor them? I've read on this board multiple times that the church.. isn't a building.. but the people inside.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Alpha8207
I disagree. I believe the video shows us that rejecting God and His standards and His ways will lead to moral decay and, yes, violence. The video talks about immorality in a number of different ways.
and
Quote:
Originally Posted by Alpha8207
God sends rain on the just and the unjust, so God does not hold back some of His blessings on anyone, but morality does come from the Father. The very existence of good is from God, and everyone gets to participate in and appreciate the benefits of that 'good'.
now I'm even more confused.. I'm dumb like that though.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Alpha8207
If you read the article you provided you know that accusation is weak. Extremely weak. Please--I could say someone grew up in an atheist home environment and had a hatred for Christianity and later turned to drugs and that doesn't mean I think being an atheist makes you more prone to be a criminal. That's just a sad attempt to discredit someone there, bigthirsty. You're usually the guy that runs to someone when they are attacked out of context like that.
Hmm.. the author offers no other reason as to why this young man is mad at Christ (other than the fact the young man is Jewish). Your definition of weak is a bit different than mine.
But alas.. maybe there is a pattern of anti-semitic language from this journal..
Huh!! from the same article I posted earlier it states:
The AFA Journal has long served as a platform for anti-Semitic theories and innuendo. For instance, Wildmon warned of Jewish control over popular culture, an old anti-Semitic canard, in a January 1989 article, "What Hollywood Believes and Wants." "The television elite are highly secular," Wildmon wrote. "The majority (59 percent) in the Jewish faith." In a separate article in the same issue, titled "Anti-Semitism Called a Serious Problem," Wildmon, a longtime opponent of gay rights, pointedly remarked that "Jews favor homosexual rights more than other Americans."
So.. its not a sad attempt to discredit someone. Its a real live attempt using facts. The conclusion after learning of the facts is obviously objective. You think one way.. I think the other.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Alpha8207
OK. No problem.
That sentence, as written, I would agree with 100%. I would not, however, agree with that sentence if you took the quotes ("") from around the word 'Christians'. (Think about it-I'm saying real Christians wouldn't be in quotes)
Well, I don't really know what you mean when you say 'representative of Christians'. Do I agree with every statement, every 'boycott', every stance they take? No.
But I know this, if they are covered by the blood of Christ then they are my (and your) brothers and sisters in the faith. We should pray for them. Pray they are being led by the Lord and pray that they are following His Spirit's leading. And if by some small chance they are, then I wouldn't call them 'doodie'. (Actually, I probably wouldn't call them 'doodie' even if they weren't following God)
Fair enough on all the rest.
Last edited by Alpha8207; 08-11-2008 at 09:52 AM..
Reason: removed quoted-see DM (also fixed a misspelled word in my post)
That those things listed, among other things, are why shootings are on the rise?
I think you could probably link violence on TV, movies, etc. to school shootings as kids grow up seeing such violence, but I don't see how sex out of wedlock and abortion lead to school shootings.
As for prayer in school, anyone can pray in any school they want, and that right can never be taken away. If you want to force students to make a public display of prayer, then that crosses the line, IMO.
Just food for thought. www.silencingchristians.com is registered to Buddy Smith. Buddy Smith is with the American Family Association. The same organization that released the following after the Virginia Tech massacre.
"On April 16, 2007, following the Virginia Tech Massacre, the AFA released a video in which "God" tells a student that students were killed in schools because God isn't allowed in schools anymore. The video claims that the shootings at Virginia Tech, Columbine, and many other locations, are the result of, among other things, decreased discipline in schools; no prayer in schools; sex out of wedlock; rampant violence in TV, movies, and music; and abortions"
Just food for thought...
P.S. AFA hates Jewish people too.. and thinks people with aids should be quarantined.
So in the end.. I can kinda see why those types of Christians.. should be silenced.
All that is fine and nice.
But it's smoke and mirrors to divert the subject at hand. The original question is are Christians being unfairly silenced violating their constitutional rights.
The video clips and/or real life examples are not from Buddy Smith.
She is so good she falsely accused somebody based on fake column from a fictitious church bulletin..
She so craaazy!
In all seriousness its hard for me once I learn about these things to take anything the website has to say seriously. I have to wonder if certain "facts" aren't trumped up to make for a better story.
Maybe they are.. maybe they aren't.. but I've seen enough to now know that it isn't a website for me. Good luck to all the rest who view the data.
But it's smoke and mirrors to divert the subject at hand. The original question is are Christians being unfairly silenced violating their constitutional rights.
The video clips and/or real life examples are not from Buddy Smith.
Exactly.
And to address your original idea......YES......Christians are being silenced. It continues to get worse and worse, and will reach a point where it will be a crime to speak of God or Jesus and Bibles will be burned.
That's why we need to have God's word written in our hearts. THAT they cannot take away.
Instead of naysaying and diverting away from the truth with nonsense, people need to wake up and open their eyes. In the coming months, strong faith, prayer and biblicial knowledge will be essential.
Folks need to stop burying their heads in the sand and get prepared. Like someone else said in another thread (Macinac81) ~~~~~we may be ridiculed in this country and things are changing for Christians, but we won't know the extent of REAL persecution like others suffer in other countries for their belief in Jesus Christ....like having acid thrown in your face like them!!!
Are we willing to suffer that kind of persecution for Christ? My answer is yes!!!
To believe that Christians are not trying to be silenced in this country is not living in the reality of the last days.
I don't see how the rapture could ever be considered a bad thing to those who are ready to meet the Lord.
And I assume you are ready to meet the Lord.
So my question is this. Why do you care if Christians are silenced? I mean that would indicate that the rapture is near and that is a good thing right?
So... shouldn't someone is is ready to meat the Lord not really care that Christians are being silenced.. since again.. that would be fulfilling the rapture and thus.. like Martha Stewart said.. "its a good thing".
I guess its hard for me to wrap my head around someone such as yourself not wanting Christian persecution and silencing as I gather from your previous posts you believe the end is near. Why stop a wheel in motion? Why be upset by it? Why push for prayer in school when that would in effect stop the wheel that you believe is already in motion?
Does that make sense? Sorry its late..
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