Being a man. A Christian Man at that. (women, believe, scripture)

[mari4him]

I'm curious to hear from the men particularly, however, women feel free to chime in with your insights as well.

Do you find it difficult to be a Christian Man? What I mean is that the bible is very clear on how we should behave and how we should treat others. Through the years, I have found that some of the things we are called to do and be as Christians can come a bit easier for women than for men.

Things like humbleness, being of gentle spirit, unconditional love, forgiving spirit, slow to anger, speaking truth's in love, etc.

I believe the world has this image of what a man is supposed to be. Strong, determined, prideful, tough, blunt, etc. I also believe that the world has this way of taking a man that is soft spoken, has a gentle spirit, and is humble as some sign of weakness. Of course, I personally do not agree with this notion.

However, it does exist and, in my experience, I have seen men struggle with this. Especially when confronted with such ideas as being humble enough to not having to always be right, having a more gentle spirit and speaking truths in love and not so bluntly that it can hurt someone else, or in being more compassionate, forgiving and understanding. I've heard things like "thats not a man" or "thats more of a woman's job than a mans".

But.... isn't that what the bible calls us to be, both male and female?

Isn't that the very character of Jesus, which we are called to try to emulate?

If we, as the children of God, are called to be more like Jesus, aren't those things what we should be striving for, whether male or female?

Do men, somehow maybe in their subconscious and without even having awareness of it, see Jesus as less than the "manly man" because he was such things? Is this what may make it a bit more difficult for men, than for women, to have a more Christlike spirit.

And yes, I realize that Jesus too had moments where anger manifested itself. This, however, was described in scripture as righteous anger and directed towards blatant infractions against God. For the most part, however, Jesus was compassionate, and when he confronted someone on their sin, it was a soul thing, not a need to be right thing.

So what's your take? Do you find it easy or hard to be Christlike? Why?

[Tricky D]

Originally Posted by mari4him

Isn't that the very character of Jesus, which we are called to try to emulate?

I simply don't understand why many (American?) Christians believe that the man should be the 1 who 'wears the pants in the house'.
What if it is the woman who is the money-maker of the family?
Should the man then demand she give up her career to stay at home when they decide to have children?
Would it be un-Christian if the husband desires to stay at home to take care of the children so his wife can keep her career?
Would it matter if it is the father instead of the mother who decides to become the stay-at-home-parent?
Why is gender (or rather traditional gender roles) such an issue for so many (American?) Christians?

[HotinAZ]

Originally Posted by mari4him

I'm curious to hear from the men particularly, however, women feel free to chime in with your insights as well.

Do you find it difficult to be a Christian Man? What I mean is that the bible is very clear on how we should behave and how we should treat others. Through the years, I have found that some of the things we are called to do and be as Christians can come a bit easier for women than for men.

Things like humbleness, being of gentle spirit, unconditional love, forgiving spirit, slow to anger, speaking truth's in love, etc.

I believe the world has this image of what a man is supposed to be. Strong, determined, prideful, tough, blunt, etc. I also believe that the world has this way of taking a man that is soft spoken, has a gentle spirit, and is humble as some sign of weakness. Of course, I personally do not agree with this notion.

However, it does exist and, in my experience, I have seen men struggle with this. Especially when confronted with such ideas as being humble enough to not having to always be right, having a more gentle spirit and speaking truths in love and not so bluntly that it can hurt someone else, or in being more compassionate, forgiving and understanding. I've heard things like "thats not a man" or "thats more of a woman's job than a mans".

But.... isn't that what the bible calls us to be, both male and female?

Isn't that the very character of Jesus, which we are called to try to emulate?

If we, as the children of God, are called to be more like Jesus, aren't those things what we should be striving for, whether male or female?

Do men, somehow maybe in their subconscious and without even having awareness of it, see Jesus as less than the "manly man" because he was such things? Is this what may make it a bit more difficult for men, than for women, to have a more Christlike spirit.

And yes, I realize that Jesus too had moments where anger manifested itself. This, however, was described in scripture as righteous anger and directed towards blatant infractions against God. For the most part, however, Jesus was compassionate, and when he confronted someone on their sin, it was a soul thing, not a need to be right thing.

So what's your take? Do you find it easy or hard to be Christlike? Why?

I want to respond, but am going to be late for work, so I reserve this spot for later today)

[freedom]

Originally Posted by mari4him

I'm curious to hear from the men particularly, however, women feel free to chime in with your insights as well.

Do you find it difficult to be a Christian Man? What I mean is that the bible is very clear on how we should behave and how we should treat others. Through the years, I have found that some of the things we are called to do and be as Christians can come a bit easier for women than for men.

Things like humbleness, being of gentle spirit, unconditional love, forgiving spirit, slow to anger, speaking truth's in love, etc.

I believe the world has this image of what a man is supposed to be. Strong, determined, prideful, tough, blunt, etc. I also believe that the world has this way of taking a man that is soft spoken, has a gentle spirit, and is humble as some sign of weakness. Of course, I personally do not agree with this notion.

However, it does exist and, in my experience, I have seen men struggle with this. Especially when confronted with such ideas as being humble enough to not having to always be right, having a more gentle spirit and speaking truths in love and not so bluntly that it can hurt someone else, or in being more compassionate, forgiving and understanding. I've heard things like "thats not a man" or "thats more of a woman's job than a mans".

But.... isn't that what the bible calls us to be, both male and female?

Isn't that the very character of Jesus, which we are called to try to emulate?

If we, as the children of God, are called to be more like Jesus, aren't those things what we should be striving for, whether male or female?

Do men, somehow maybe in their subconscious and without even having awareness of it, see Jesus as less than the "manly man" because he was such things? Is this what may make it a bit more difficult for men, than for women, to have a more Christlike spirit.

And yes, I realize that Jesus too had moments where anger manifested itself. This, however, was described in scripture as righteous anger and directed towards blatant infractions against God. For the most part, however, Jesus was compassionate, and when he confronted someone on their sin, it was a soul thing, not a need to be right thing.

So what's your take? Do you find it easy or hard to be Christlike? Why?

Jesus is the perfect example. The world has formed what men and women should be, and we have bought into it, literally...

The more we are led by the Spirit, the more we will be our divine selves.

By the way, emulations, or to emulate is a sin. I'm pointing this out because man has found a source of pride in competition, whether on the field or in their work. It is an attitude that has polluted the getleness and peace of man, and created strife, envy, and inferiority complexes.

Gal 5:19 Now the works of the flesh are manifest, which are [these]; Adultery, fornication, uncleanness, lasciviousness,


Gal 5:20 Idolatry, witchcraft, hatred, variance, emulations, wrath, strife, seditions, heresies,


Gal 5:21 Envyings, murders, drunkenness, revellings, and such like: of the which I tell you before, as I have also told [you] in time past, that they which do such things shall not inherit the kingdom of God.


emulate
Verb
[-lating, -lated] to imitate (someone) in an attempt to do as well as or better than him or her


godspeed,

freedom

[Buckeye in SC]

Originally Posted by Tricky D

Originally Posted by mari4him I simply don't understand why many (American?) Christians believe that the man should be the 1 who 'wears the pants in the house'.
What if it is the woman who is the money-maker of the family?
Should the man then demand she give up her career to stay at home when they decide to have children?
Would it be un-Christian if the husband desires to stay at home to take care of the children so his wife can keep her career?
Would it matter if it is the father instead of the mother who decides to become the stay-at-home-parent?
Why is gender (or rather traditional gender roles) such an issue for so many (American?) Christians?

I wouldn't have any problem if my wife made more money than I did, we are one in Christ, so the better she does, the better we do and the more we can do for the kingdom. As for her staying home w/the children, that is a yearning on her (and from what most of the women I know) heart to be a mom to our future children, I personally wouldn't care if she wanted to continue to work as long as it were economically feasible.

[mari4him]

Originally Posted by Tricky D

Originally Posted by mari4him I simply don't understand why many (American?) Christians believe that the man should be the 1 who 'wears the pants in the house'.
What if it is the woman who is the money-maker of the family?
Should the man then demand she give up her career to stay at home when they decide to have children?
Would it be un-Christian if the husband desires to stay at home to take care of the children so his wife can keep her career?
Would it matter if it is the father instead of the mother who decides to become the stay-at-home-parent?
Why is gender (or rather traditional gender roles) such an issue for so many (American?) Christians?

These are some good questions and which are often asked. I think the problem that rises with the whole term "wearing the pants in the house" is equated to who is the bread winner or handles the financial or otherwise daily affairs of the home. If looked at in that sense, absolutely it could be either. The wife could be more financially savvy than the husband and thus would be wiser for her to handle that aspect than for him. Career wise, when someone is needed to stay home with the children, the wiser choice could be for that to be the lower earning parent, be it the mother or the father. Decisions such as that should be made based on what is best for the family, not what gender one holds.

However, in terms of "headship" or "who wears the pants in the home" as it is put, I think its more of an attitude towards a person, a position that is given, rather than a who does what. There are many relationships where the woman makes the majority of the everyday decisions in the home, where she handles the majority of the affairs in the home, however, she still views her husband as head of the home, she consults everything with him and in cases were a compromise cannot be reached, trusting him, she may defer to his preference in a given situation because she respects and honors him to hold that role of "head of household".

I can only use a real world application such as a company to compare it to. Take an employee and an employer. The employee may do most of the work for the company, while the employer supervises or what not, the employee is no less an equal human being as the employer, however, the employee may need to defer to an employers wishes in a given situation.

I also see it as simply meaning that in the case of differing opinions where a compromise is not available or not easily reached, the split or tie breaking becomes a thing of 51%/49%. In the case where the male is considered to be head of household, that 51% is his. It doesn't mean that the ability to make the final decision is abused, and it should mean that he takes his wife's thoughts, opinions, and feelings into serious consideration when making the decision. It should also be tempered with consideration of the other spouse, meaning that sometimes the final decision may sway in his favor, but on other occassions there should be moments when that final decision may sway in her favor.

Handled with responsibility and with respect it can work. However, I believe strongly that respect for the other person's (i.e. wifes) opinions and feelings needs to be prevelent. Furthermore, I only see the wife being able to securely allow that deferment to take place comes from her feeling valued as a person, her feeling validated, trusting in his walk, his ability to be fair and just, his wisdom in these areas, his respect for her despite what differing opinions they may have, his ability to lead, and truly believing that his decisions will not be self-motivated but will be motivated by what is best for everyone, the family as a whole, not just getting his way.

[Alpha8207]

Originally Posted by mari4him

I'm curious to hear from the men particularly, however, women feel free to chime in with your insights as well.

I'm a Christian and a man.

Originally Posted by mari4him

Do you find it difficult to be a Christian Man? What I mean is that the bible is very clear on how we should behave and how we should treat others. Through the years, I have found that some of the things we are called to do and be as Christians can come a bit easier for women than for men.

It's not 'easy' to be a Christian period. Male or female. While Christ's yoke is easy and His burden is light, it's not easy to 'walk the talk' and it's not easy keeping our flesh at bay in a world that screams 'embrace your flesh'.

Originally Posted by mari4him

Things like humbleness, being of gentle spirit, unconditional love, forgiving spirit, slow to anger, speaking truth's in love, etc.

For anyone to call themselves a man, Christian or not, they should have those qualities. Those qualities don't diminish masculinity....in my opinion, they are much harder to emulate than their 'animalistic' opposites. I actually think the opposites of those scream of immaturity and self-centeredness....neither of which are 'manly'.

Originally Posted by mari4him

I believe the world has this image of what a man is supposed to be. Strong, determined, prideful, tough, blunt, etc. I also believe that the world has this way of taking a man that is soft spoken, has a gentle spirit, and is humble as some sign of weakness. Of course, I personally do not agree with this notion.

I have no idea what prideful is doing in that list. There's nothing about being a Christian man that would prevent you from being strong, determined, tough, or blunt. On the contrary, I believe those characteristics are a must for a Christian man.

Originally Posted by mari4him

However, it does exist and, in my experience, I have seen men struggle with this. Especially when confronted with such ideas as being humble enough to not having to always be right, having a more gentle spirit and speaking truths in love and not so bluntly that it can hurt someone else, or in being more compassionate, forgiving and understanding. I've heard things like "thats not a man" or "thats more of a woman's job than a mans".

It's more of a woman's job to be compassionate, forgiving, and understanding? I hope not! If so then I might question the 'Christianity' of some of these Christian men.

Originally Posted by mari4him

But.... isn't that what the bible calls us to be, both male and female?

My bible does not call me to be female.

Originally Posted by mari4him

Isn't that the very character of Jesus, which we are called to try to emulate?

Jesus wasn't strong?
Jesus wasn't determined?
Jesus wasn't tough?
Jesus wasn't blunt?

I believe Jesus was all those things and I believe there's more than enough scripture to support it.

Now, Jesus wasn't boastful, arrogant, a loud mouth, a bully, or prideful, but those characteristics aren't 'manly', they are a joke. And one calling themselves a 'man' based on those characteristics is anything but a man.

Originally Posted by mari4him

If we, as the children of God, are called to be more like Jesus, aren't those things what we should be striving for, whether male or female?

Yes.

Originally Posted by mari4him

Do men, somehow maybe in their subconscious and without even having awareness of it, see Jesus as less than the "manly man" because he was such things? Is this what may make it a bit more difficult for men, than for women, to have a more Christlike spirit.

No. Christian men know one thing for sure:

Jesus was a man.

Originally Posted by mari4him

And yes, I realize that Jesus too had moments where anger manifested itself. This, however, was described in scripture as righteous anger and directed towards blatant infractions against God. For the most part, however, Jesus was compassionate, and when he confronted someone on their sin, it was a soul thing, not a need to be right thing.

Again, whether Jesus or a Christian man today, the characteristics you describe do not make someone a man or 'not' a man. A man is someone who respects others, has the courage to address things that might not be well received, to temper strength and honesty with compassion and forgiveness. IT isn't some brute who bullies people around until they conform to his way of thinking.

Originally Posted by mari4him

So what's your take? Do you find it easy or hard to be Christlike? Why?

It's hard for me to be Christlike because He set the bar so high.

I just thank God that Jesus has grace and mercy where I fall so terribly short.

[Tricky D]

Originally Posted by mari4him

I can only use a real world application such as a company to compare it to.

Maybe, but a marriage is not like a company; companies are businesslike (read: less emotional) and there is much competition and probably some political infighting.
I don’t think people are in a healthy relationship whenever their marriage resembles the inner workings of a company.
A relationship doesn't have shares, you either both work at it or it simply won't work.

Nowadays it is not easy to be a man, because what does it mean to be a (modern) man?
For me it is easy, I personally prefer to be myself instead of just 'being a man'.

[esselcue]

"By the way, emulations, or to emulate is a sin. I'm pointing this out because man has found a source of pride in competition, whether on the field or in their work. It is an attitude that has polluted the getleness and peace of man, and created strife, envy, and inferiority complexes."


Emulation is a sin? That's ridiculous. Children all emulate their parents, that's how they grow and learn. Students emulate their teachers, or try to, Boy Scouts emulate their pack leaders, which is also how they grow and learn. There is nothing wrong with feeling pride in a job well-done or a life well-lived, regardless of what the Bible teaches. It is only when these traits become an obsession or get in the way of right or truth that they become a problem. Granted, many people have fallen into a pit of competition and/or pride, but that doesn't make pride or emulation a sin...these are natural emotions, born in us. Not sinful...just human emotions. The fault lies in the person who allows himself or herself to become addicted to that emotion.

[arguy1973]

what Alpha said...