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Old 08-25-2008, 02:45 AM
 
Location: Greensboro, NC
1,261 posts, read 3,939,848 times
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I don't support abortion in any case. Why should a child be punished for what someone else did? An unborn baby is not less valuable than an adult or a child who's already been born.

I can understand a woman having a hard time keeping a baby who was conceived through rape or incest, but there is adoption. There are a lot of couples out there who can't get pregnant and would love to have a baby to raise and care for.
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Old 08-25-2008, 07:40 AM
 
Location: Pikeville, Ky.
13,610 posts, read 22,054,507 times
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I support the "morning after pill" in any case..Women have known ways since the beginning of time how to NOT be pregnant..In ancient times they gathered certain medicinal herbs that were passed down through the generations..Here's one interesting article..

Eve's Herbs: A History of Contraception and Abortion in the West
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Old 08-25-2008, 08:38 AM
 
Location: Forests of Maine
31,355 posts, read 50,730,516 times
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Life begins with breath.

So we are in favour of abortion.
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Old 08-25-2008, 10:42 AM
 
Location: Just a few miles outside of St. Louis
1,921 posts, read 5,218,306 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Niki View Post
I don't support abortion in any case. Why should a child be punished for what someone else did? An unborn baby is not less valuable than an adult or a child who's already been born.

I can understand a woman having a hard time keeping a baby who was conceived through rape or incest, but there is adoption. There are a lot of couples out there who can't get pregnant and would love to have a baby to raise and care for.
What if it was our daughter, or granddaughter, and they were thirteen, fourteen...? As a family we would want to help guide her to the decision that we believed would be best, however, what if she just couldn't handle the thought of carrying a baby for nine months, the product of rape/incest? Would we then force her to do so, regardless of whatever emotional damage it might cause? Yes, I am aware that there is great emotional damage with an abortion, as well, but remember, we are making the best decisions we can at the moment, based on the knowledge we have of our loved one. Is this the business of the government, or is this kind of gut-wrenching decision best left to the families involved? Do we really want the government involved in such private, personal affairs?

Personally, I don't like abortion, and if rape/incest happened to my daughter, step-daughter, or granddaughter, I would encourage them to keep the child, because I also believe the unborn have value. However, I don't think Christians have the right to force their beliefs on the general public. Jesus didn't force people to do what was right; he led them. We don't walk in other people's shoes, we don't know their background, and we don't know their reasoning. If Christians try to force women to keep babies they don't want, (for whatever reason: rape, incest, medical, or, unfortunately, they just don't want to be bothered), they will cause many of them to resort to other methods, the way women have done for thousands of years, so the problem of abortion is not solved; it merely goes underground, into back alleys. Not only is the baby gone, but frequently the woman is also. Bad enough to lose one life, now two lives are lost. But, perhaps for some Christians, it's easier to deal with the thought of abortion if it's hidden.

As far as adoption goes, yes it exists, but here again, the government is involved and makes adoptions quite difficult. Here's where the laws need to be changed. In the meantime, those precious babies are growing up, and now they are older children, that frequently are no longer wanted for adoption. How many Christians, who insist that all of society should abide by their rules, actually adopt these children? Not enough. How many Christians, who want to force their beliefs onto others through legislation, help families, financially and emotionally, when they opt to keep a child with massive, costly birth defects, because they were encouraged, (or forced, one way or the other), to not use abortion? Not enough.

I'm not saying that abortion is the right answer for women/girls, when they find themselves with an unwanted pregnancy. What I am saying is that these types of decisions need to be left to the women involved, and their families. Christians need to "put up, or shut up", as the saying goes. If they want to encourage, (not force), women to carry these babies to term, then they need to be willing to step up to the plate, and do what needs to be done, to insure that these babies will have good homes, that they will grow-up as happy as possible, that they will not lack for any necessities, that the women have emotional support, or financial, if it's needed. How easy it is for Christians to tell a woman, or a girl, that they must keep a baby, and then walk away. Rather like telling a homeless man that they hope he will be warm, and have a full stomach, as they walk by him, on their way to their cozy homes, with dinner waiting on the table.

If, ultimately, despite Christians' encouragement, and willingness to help, (and yes, there are those who do step up to the plate), some of these women and girls still decide to abort their babies, they need to allow them to make that decision, without resorting to name-calling, or hateful actions, which accomplishes nothing, other than causing them to shy away from anything to do with Jesus, because all they've heard is ugliness from judgemental Christians. Judging is not our "job"; we are not equipped for it.
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Old 08-25-2008, 11:17 AM
 
Location: Denver, Colorado U.S.A.
14,174 posts, read 23,765,065 times
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Originally Posted by Dahlila View Post
That would really be a double standard. pro-life means we support all life, in all cases, doesn't it? I don't think we can say it's wrong in one case and right in another and not be a hypocrite.
If you know the baby is extremely deformed, brain dead, extremely handicapped, then it's the humane thing to do. I saw a show the other day where a woman's baby had died on its own in her womb and she carried it until natural stillbirth. I wondered how she could possibly do that- live those days knowing a dead baby was inside her. I suppose it would have been considered abortion to remove it earlier?
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Old 08-25-2008, 01:45 PM
 
Location: Denver
109 posts, read 208,045 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by denverian View Post
If you know the baby is extremely deformed, brain dead, extremely handicapped, then it's the humane thing to do. I saw a show the other day where a woman's baby had died on its own in her womb and she carried it until natural stillbirth. I wondered how she could possibly do that- live those days knowing a dead baby was inside her. I suppose it would have been considered abortion to remove it earlier?
No. no harm wouldhave been done because the child was already dead. When it is alive then there arises the controversy.
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Old 08-26-2008, 02:21 AM
 
Location: Greensboro, NC
1,261 posts, read 3,939,848 times
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I didn't say anything about anyone forcing anyone else to do anything. (lol Weird sentence.) I only stated my opinion on abortion. I believe it's murder, so how could I ever support it believing that?

I have a daughter. She's only 8 and if, God forbid, she were ever raped as a minor I would not allow her to get an abortion. What she does as an adult is up to her. I can't live her life or make her decisions for her then. I can only pray that she remains faithful to God and His Word. God gives us all free will to do what we choose, but that doesn't mean that there aren't consequences for doing the wrong thing.

As Christians, we should share God's Word with people and encourage people to do the right thing. (What's that scripture? Hebrews 10:24: "And let us consider one another to provoke ["call forth"; "stir up"] unto love and to good works.") We should speak the truth with love, but never try to force people to do anything (what good would that do?) or get in their faces. What people ultimately do is up to them. God will judge in the end.
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Old 08-26-2008, 09:01 AM
 
Location: Just a few miles outside of St. Louis
1,921 posts, read 5,218,306 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Niki View Post
I didn't say anything about anyone forcing anyone else to do anything. (lol Weird sentence.) I only stated my opinion on abortion. I believe it's murder, so how could I ever support it believing that?

I have a daughter. She's only 8 and if, God forbid, she were ever raped as a minor I would not allow her to get an abortion. What she does as an adult is up to her. I can't live her life or make her decisions for her then. I can only pray that she remains faithful to God and His Word. God gives us all free will to do what we choose, but that doesn't mean that there aren't consequences for doing the wrong thing.

As Christians, we should share God's Word with people and encourage people to do the right thing. (What's that scripture? Hebrews 10:24: "And let us consider one another to provoke ["call forth"; "stir up"] unto love and to good works.") We should speak the truth with love, but never try to force people to do anything (what good would that do?) or get in their faces. What people ultimately do is up to them. God will judge in the end.
I'm glad you apparently agree that we should not force other people to do what we think is best for them. The problem is, whenever fundamentalists want to change the laws of the land to forbid abortion, for any reason, then they are forcing the rest of society to live by it's rules. If you would not to allow your young daughter to abort a baby that was the product of rape or incest, that would certainly be your choice, as a family. But, when fundamentalists want to put laws into place that say other families cannot make a different choice for their young daughters, now we're playing an entirely different ballgame.

I don't like abortion, and I used to be staunchly against it for any reason. Then some years ago, I watched a news story play out in California, where a young woman was in a coma. She was pregnant, and her husband was told that her chances of survival, and coming out of the coma would be very low, (or not at all), if she continued to carry the baby. The young husband had an agonizing decision to make, to allow his wife to have an abortion, in order to save her life. That's when the you-know-what hit the fan, because the "pro-life" people stuck their nose into personal, private, family business, and tried to prevent him from allowing the abortion to take place. He had to fight these people in court over a decision that should have been his to make. They even wanted to take custody of his wife! He didn't want to abort his child, but with the information he was given, he felt he had no choice. These "pro-life" folks were so hell-bent on saving one life, that they entirely forgot about the other one, (as if all of this were their business in the first place).

As I recall, the abortion did eventually take place, and the young wife recovered, but I never forgot that story. I was horrified at how these "loving" Christians had acted, and I knew I wouldn't appreciate someone else sticking their nose into our personal, private business if my family was ever caught up in such a horrible nightmare. I realized that there is no "one size fits all" answer, despite what I had been taught in the church, all my life. I realized that there are things in this life that are not as black and white as we would like to believe them to be.

As much as I dislike abortion, I realized that it truly is a decision to be left to the women, and their families, involved. It is not the place of the fundamentalists of this world, through government intervention in the guise of legislation, to force women/girls to carry a baby to term, particularly if the baby is the result of rape, incest, or there are massive medical problems. Christians need to be encouraging and supportive, not nasty and judgemental, if they want women to have these babies. I have seen Christians do some mighty ugly things towards these women and girls, all in the name of Jesus. Why don't they do something constructive, like working in a pregnancy crisis center?
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Old 08-26-2008, 09:56 AM
 
Location: arizona ... most of the time
11,826 posts, read 10,411,922 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by CelticLady1 View Post
I'm glad you apparently agree that we should not force other people to do what we think is best for them. The problem is, whenever fundamentalists want to change the laws of the land to forbid abortion, for any reason, then they are forcing the rest of society to live by it's rules. If you would not to allow your young daughter to abort a baby that was the product of rape or incest, that would certainly be your choice, as a family. But, when fundamentalists want to put laws into place that say other families cannot make a different choice for their young daughters, now we're playing an entirely different ballgame.

I don't like abortion, and I used to be staunchly against it for any reason. Then some years ago, I watched a news story play out in California, where a young woman was in a coma. She was pregnant, and her husband was told that her chances of survival, and coming out of the coma would be very low, (or not at all), if she continued to carry the baby. The young husband had an agonizing decision to make, to allow his wife to have an abortion, in order to save her life. That's when the you-know-what hit the fan, because the "pro-life" people stuck their nose into personal, private, family business, and tried to prevent him from allowing the abortion to take place. He had to fight these people in court over a decision that should have been his to make. They even wanted to take custody of his wife! He didn't want to abort his child, but with the information he was given, he felt he had no choice. These "pro-life" folks were so hell-bent on saving one life, that they entirely forgot about the other one, (as if all of this were their business in the first place).

As I recall, the abortion did eventually take place, and the young wife recovered, but I never forgot that story. I was horrified at how these "loving" Christians had acted, and I knew I wouldn't appreciate someone else sticking their nose into our personal, private business if my family was ever caught up in such a horrible nightmare. I realized that there is no "one size fits all" answer, despite what I had been taught in the church, all my life. I realized that there are things in this life that are not as black and white as we would like to believe them to be.

As much as I dislike abortion, I realized that it truly is a decision to be left to the women, and their families, involved. It is not the place of the fundamentalists of this world, through government intervention in the guise of legislation, to force women/girls to carry a baby to term, particularly if the baby is the result of rape, incest, or there are massive medical problems. Christians need to be encouraging and supportive, not nasty and judgemental, if they want women to have these babies. I have seen Christians do some mighty ugly things towards these women and girls, all in the name of Jesus. Why don't they do something constructive, like working in a pregnancy crisis center?
Why not focus on the true problem, instead of those nasty, judgemental Christians. Maybe if the morals where that of what God wants of people this wouldn't be a issue. But that would take the "fun" away from immoral people and profits from the baby killers and from Planned Parenthoodless...wouldn't it.
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Old 08-26-2008, 10:09 AM
 
Location: Denver, Colorado U.S.A.
14,174 posts, read 23,765,065 times
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Originally Posted by Dahlila View Post
No. no harm wouldhave been done because the child was already dead. When it is alive then there arises the controversy.
Makes sense. But I felt horrible for her. They said she got some virus early in her pregnancy that caused the baby to not develop correctly.
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