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Old 09-04-2008, 10:09 PM
 
Location: All around the world.....
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[quote]
Quote:
Originally Posted by Alanboy395 View Post
I'm a christian who is also a libertarian.

My view on abortion:

I don't support the choice of abortion when the woman made an irresponsible choice to have unprotected sex and get pregnant with a child that she was apparently not ready for and had no desire to have. I would support adoption in that case. "If you can't do the time, dont do the grind." Martin Lawrence.

But in cases of rape or incest the woman did not have the choice to get pregnant. In those cases ONLY i think the woman should have the right to make a responsible choice to have an abortion or not.


I don't believe we can pick out the parts of God's Commands we want to
agree with
If this abortion=death;
Then what part of "Thou shall not kill" do we need to ponder?
We'll either believe in God or not
In Deuteronomy God gave no cases, exceptions or room for emotion
He said choose, Blessings or cursings
Death or Life
God Bless You
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Old 09-04-2008, 10:27 PM
 
Location: Forests of Maine
31,298 posts, read 50,601,455 times
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[quote=yhwhshalomjr;5133041]
Quote:

I don't believe we can pick out the parts of God's Commands we want to
agree with
If this abortion=death;
Then what part of "Thou shall not kill" do we need to ponder?
We'll either believe in God or not
In Deuteronomy God gave no cases, exceptions or room for emotion
He said choose, Blessings or cursings
Death or Life
God Bless You
Except of course for the fact that God does not say: "abortion=death".

Nowhere in the Bible does God say: "He said choose, Blessings or cursings, Death or Life"

But it is very nice of you to try and stuff words into His mouth.
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Old 09-06-2008, 08:32 AM
 
Location: All around the world.....
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[quote]
Quote:
Originally Posted by forest beekeeper View Post
Quote:
Originally Posted by yhwhshalomjr View Post

Except of course for the fact that God does not say: "abortion=death".

Nowhere in the Bible does God say: "He said choose, Blessings or cursings, Death or Life"

But it is very nice of you to try and stuff words into His mouth.


No I said it,
If it were a Bible scripture I would have inserted it, by scripture and text
while I'm at it this is what I was referencing

<< Deuteronomy 30:19 >>


--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
New American Standard Bible (©1995)"I call heaven and earth to witness against you today, that I have set before you life and death, the blessing and the curse. So choose life in order that you may live, you and your descendants,
GOD'S WORD® Translation (©1995)
I call on heaven and earth as witnesses today that I have offered you life or death, blessings or curses. Choose life so that you and your descendants will live.

King James Bible
I call heaven and earth to record this day against you, that I have set before you life and death, blessing and cursing: therefore choose life, that both thou and thy seed may live:

American King James Version
I call heaven and earth to record this day against you, that I have set before you life and death, blessing and cursing: therefore choose life, that both you and your seed may live:

American Standard Version
I call heaven and earth to witness against you this day, that I have set before thee life and death, the blessing and the curse: therefore choose life, that thou mayest live, thou and thy seed;

Bible in Basic English
Let heaven and earth be my witnesses against you this day that I have put before you life and death, a blessing and a curse: so take life for yourselves and for your seed:

Douay-Rheims Bible
I call heaven and earth to witness this day, that I have set before you life and death, blessing and cursing. Choose therefore life, that both thou and thy seed may live:

Darby Bible Translation
I call heaven and earth to witness this day against you: life and death have I set before you, blessing and cursing: choose then life, that thou mayest live, thou and thy seed,

English Revised Version
I call heaven and earth to witness against you this day, that I have set before thee life and death, the blessing and the curse: therefore choose life, that thou mayest live, thou and thy seed:

Webster's Bible Translation
I call heaven and earth to record this day against you, that I have set before you life and death, blessing and cursing: therefore choose life, that both thou and thy seed may live:

World English Bible
I call heaven and earth to witness against you this day, that I have set before you life and death, the blessing and the curse: therefore choose life, that you may live, you and your seed;

Young's Literal Translation
'I have caused to testify against you to-day the heavens and the earth; life and death I have set before thee, the blessing and the reviling; and thou hast fixed on life, so that thou dost live, thou and thy seed,


Deuteronomy 4:26 I call heaven and earth to witness against you today, that you will surely perish quickly from the land where you are going over the Jordan to possess it. You shall not live long on it, but will be utterly destroyed.
Deuteronomy 30:1 "So it shall be when all of these things have come upon you, the blessing and the curse which I have set before you, and you call them to mind in all nations where the LORD your God has banished you, (NASB ©1995)

Treasury of Scripture Knowledge

I call heaven and earth to record this day against you, that I have set before you life and death, blessing and cursing: therefore choose life, that both thou and thy seed may live:

this pretty straight forward, you cannot choose life, if you kill
Thanks For your reply
God Bless You

Last edited by yhwhshalomjr; 09-06-2008 at 08:50 AM..
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Old 09-06-2008, 09:05 AM
 
Location: Forests of Maine
31,298 posts, read 50,601,455 times
Reputation: 20158
[quote=yhwhshalomjr;5151260]
Quote:

No I said it,
If it were a Bible scripture I would have inserted it, by scripture and text
while I'm at it this is what I was referencing

<< Deuteronomy 30:19 >>


--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
New American Standard Bible (©1995)"I call heaven and earth to witness against you today, that I have set before you life and death, the blessing and the curse. So choose life in order that you may live, you and your descendants,
GOD'S WORD® Translation (©1995)
I call on heaven and earth as witnesses today that I have offered you life or death, blessings or curses. Choose life so that you and your descendants will live.

King James Bible
I call heaven and earth to record this day against you, that I have set before you life and death, blessing and cursing: therefore choose life, that both thou and thy seed may live:

American King James Version
I call heaven and earth to record this day against you, that I have set before you life and death, blessing and cursing: therefore choose life, that both you and your seed may live:

American Standard Version
I call heaven and earth to witness against you this day, that I have set before thee life and death, the blessing and the curse: therefore choose life, that thou mayest live, thou and thy seed;

Bible in Basic English
Let heaven and earth be my witnesses against you this day that I have put before you life and death, a blessing and a curse: so take life for yourselves and for your seed:

Douay-Rheims Bible
I call heaven and earth to witness this day, that I have set before you life and death, blessing and cursing. Choose therefore life, that both thou and thy seed may live:

Darby Bible Translation
I call heaven and earth to witness this day against you: life and death have I set before you, blessing and cursing: choose then life, that thou mayest live, thou and thy seed,

English Revised Version
I call heaven and earth to witness against you this day, that I have set before thee life and death, the blessing and the curse: therefore choose life, that thou mayest live, thou and thy seed:

Webster's Bible Translation
I call heaven and earth to record this day against you, that I have set before you life and death, blessing and cursing: therefore choose life, that both thou and thy seed may live:

World English Bible
I call heaven and earth to witness against you this day, that I have set before you life and death, the blessing and the curse: therefore choose life, that you may live, you and your seed;

Young's Literal Translation
'I have caused to testify against you to-day the heavens and the earth; life and death I have set before thee, the blessing and the reviling; and thou hast fixed on life, so that thou dost live, thou and thy seed,


Deuteronomy 4:26 I call heaven and earth to witness against you today, that you will surely perish quickly from the land where you are going over the Jordan to possess it. You shall not live long on it, but will be utterly destroyed.
Deuteronomy 30:1 "So it shall be when all of these things have come upon you, the blessing and the curse which I have set before you, and you call them to mind in all nations where the LORD your God has banished you, (NASB ©1995)

Treasury of Scripture Knowledge

I call heaven and earth to record this day against you, that I have set before you life and death, blessing and cursing: therefore choose life, that both thou and thy seed may live:

this pretty straight forward, you cannot choose life, if you kill
Thanks For your reply
God Bless You
Stated in the context of 'abortion'?

I think not.

Stated in the context of following God's Laws obviously.

You are the one trying to put it in a different context.
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Old 09-06-2008, 09:30 AM
 
Location: All around the world.....
2,886 posts, read 7,589,004 times
Reputation: 1049
Thanks for your observations
Gods is not the author of confusion,
that much I will say;
Whatever context you're referencing, We as Christians are called not to be sower's of strife with one another
So if you're looking for a debate , you'll have to go to the next victim
I post my thoughts and , that's pretty much it
God Bless You
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Old 12-13-2009, 02:18 PM
 
63 posts, read 231,007 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by bluepacific View Post
Here an interesting and insightful thought that King David was inspired to write in one of the Psalms.
Psalm 139:13-16 - (New Jerusalem Bible) [13] "You created my inmost self, knit me together in my mother's womb. [14] "For so many marvels I thank you; a wonder I am, and all your works are wonders. You knew me through and through, [16] "my being held no secrets from you, when I was being formed in secret, textured in the depths of the earth. [16] "Your eyes could see my embryo. In your book all my days were inscribed, every one that is fixed is there."
Verse [16] - (Today's New International Version) "your eyes saw my unformed body. All the days ordained for me were written in your book before one of them came to be."

King David was acknowledging that Almighty God could see even the embryo or blueprint as it were of who he would be. His genetic make up and tendency towards certain likes and dislikes, and so on. So a serious question needs to be asked by all if they truly believe all of these things. No matter what the circumstances, at what point does life start ???? Apparently once the embryo was created, the genetic pattern for a new human being was created. I can't tell anyone what they should or should'nt do. It is up to their own conscience when it's all said and done. But there are interesting scriptures as to how God views an unborn child. Even the nation of Israel had laws to protect an unborn child and it was punishable if two men fought each other and accidentally knocked a pregnant woman down and the result was an accidental abortion.

Here's something I read many years ago and there seems to be many versions of it out on the Net if you google it. It was about a fictional dairy that was written by an unborn child. I'm not sure who originally wrote it as many have claimed to. It's called "Diary of an Unborn Child" which seems to have been from a story first written by a Michele DuVal Aiello in 1973. But it describes an embryo talking about what is happening in the womb.

March 28th
Today my life began, my parents don't know it yet, but it is I already. And I am to be a girl. I shall have blond hair and blue eyes. Just about everything is settled though, even the fact that I shall love flowers.

April 12th
Some say that I am not a real person yet, that only my mother exists. But I am a real person, just as a small crumb of bread is yet truly bread. My mother is. And I am.

April 17th
My mouth is just beginning to open now. Just think, in a year or so I shall be laughing and later talking. I know what my first word will be, "MAMA"

April 22nd
My heart began to beat today all by itself. From now on it shall gently beat for the rest of my life without ever stopping to rest! And after many years it will tire.

April 29th
I am growing a bit every day. My arms and legs are beginning to take shape. But I have to wait a long time yet before those little legs will raise to my mother's arms, before these little arms will be able to gather flowers and embrace my father.

May 14th
Tiny fingers are beginning to form on my hands. Funny how small they are! I'll be able to stroke my mother's hair with them. They will pet a puppy, throw a ball and touch another hand.

May 23rd
It was'nt until today that the doctor told my mother that I am living here under her heart. Oh how happy she must be! Are you happy, mom?

June 3rd
My mom and dad are probably thinking of a name for me. But they don't even know I'm a little girl yet. I won't to be called Kathy. I am getting so big already.

June 10th
My hair is growing, it is smooth and bright and shiny. I wonder what kind of hair my mom has. My face is completely formed. I wonder if I will look like my mother?

June 18th
I wonder if my momhears the wisper of my heart. Mother I can here your heart beating. Some children come into the world a little sick. But my heart is strong and healthy. It beats so evenly, tup-tup, tup-tup. You'll have a healthy little daughter mom!

June 24th
Today my mother killed me.
This is one of the most ridiculous things I've ever heard. Do you think a 4 month blob of dividing stem cells is even capable of thought?
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Old 12-13-2009, 09:18 PM
 
6,057 posts, read 4,948,023 times
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One thing I've always wonderd is why are there so many miscarriages?
And if god knew you before you were born... then he would also know beforehand about the miscarriage or abortion. So would he put a spirit into a physical body that is being formed when he knows that this birth won't even take place?? I'm just thinking out loud here people so don't jump on me... just stuff I wonder about. I mean I supposed He would... but...hmm. I don't know. I just don't know. ok nevermind. Going back to "ponder" mode.
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Old 12-13-2009, 10:17 PM
 
Location: Forests of Maine
31,298 posts, read 50,601,455 times
Reputation: 20158
Quote:
Originally Posted by .sparrow. View Post
One thing I've always wonderd is why are there so many miscarriages?
And if god knew you before you were born... then he would also know beforehand about the miscarriage or abortion. So would he put a spirit into a physical body that is being formed when he knows that this birth won't even take place?? I'm just thinking out loud here people so don't jump on me... just stuff I wonder about. I mean I supposed He would... but...hmm. I don't know. I just don't know. ok nevermind. Going back to "ponder" mode.
Maybe that is why God says that soul-life begins at when you begin to breath.

With all of our fancy science; brain 'death', cellular 'death', etc, we get lost in it all.

God knows.
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Old 12-13-2009, 10:49 PM
 
Location: Utah
2,331 posts, read 3,062,784 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Alanboy395 View Post
I'm a christian who is also a libertarian. My view on abortion:

I don't support the choice of abortion when the woman made an irresponsible choice to have unprotected sex and get pregnant with a child that she was apparently not ready for and had no desire to have. I would support adoption in that case. "If you can't do the time, dont do the grind." Martin Lawrence.

But in cases of rape or incest the woman did not have the choice to get pregnant. In those cases ONLY i think the woman should have the right to make a responsible choice to have an abortion or not. I would still favor adoption in those cases but in cases of rape or incest i think the woman should make the choice because a choice was already made for her.
Abortion is always KILLING. But when it's a clear choice between either the life of the mother or of the unborn child, I think the mother should be allowed to make that choice. Otherwise, stop the KILLING!
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Old 12-13-2009, 10:54 PM
 
Location: Comunistafornia, and working to get out ASAP!
1,959 posts, read 4,780,194 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Centurian View Post
This is one of the most ridiculous things I've ever heard. Do you think a 4 month blob of dividing stem cells is even capable of thought?
Oh man... what I would love to say to you!
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