U.S. CitiesCity-Data Forum Index
Go Back   City-Data Forum > General Forums > Religion and Spirituality > Christianity
 [Register]
Please register to participate in our discussions with 2 million other members - it's free and quick! Some forums can only be seen by registered members. After you create your account, you'll be able to customize options and access all our 15,000 new posts/day with fewer ads.
View detailed profile (Advanced) or search
site with Google Custom Search

Search Forums  (Advanced)
 
 
Old 09-10-2008, 06:17 PM
 
Location: NW Arkansas
3,978 posts, read 8,202,815 times
Reputation: 3775

Advertisements

What is your understanding on these scriptures?

2 Thess. 2
9 the coming of the lawless one is according to the working of Satan, with all power,signs, and lying wonders,
10 and with all unrighteousness deception among those who perish, because they did not recieve the love of the truth, that they might be saved.
11 And for this reason God will send them strong delusion, that they should believe the lie,
12 that they all may be condemned who did not believe the truth but had pleasure in unrighteousness.
(NKJV)

I will quote the NIV also, since so many use that version:

2 Thess. 9 through 12
The coming of the lawless one will be in accordance with the work of Satan displayed in all kinds of counterfeit miracles, signs and wonders,10 and in every sort of evil that deceives those who are perishing. They perish because they refused to love the truth and so be saved.11 For this reason God sends them a powerful delusion so that they will believe the lie 12 and so that all will be condemned who have not believed the truth but delighted in wickedness.
Rate this post positively Quick reply to this message

 
Old 09-10-2008, 07:17 PM
 
Location: SC Foothills
8,831 posts, read 11,006,611 times
Reputation: 58239
Anyone who knows the Bible knows that this is speaking of the AntiChrist. The great "delusion" or "lie" is that he will claim to be God.

What's your point?
Rate this post positively Quick reply to this message
 
Old 09-10-2008, 08:02 PM
 
Location: NW Arkansas
3,978 posts, read 8,202,815 times
Reputation: 3775
DOTL, you may be right, but I do not see the same discription of this 'son of perdition' in 2 Thess. as is given for the Anti-Christ in 1st and 2nd John. The 1st and 2nd John are the only place that I find the term " Anti-Christ". Are there others ?

And the Thess. scriptures are not talking about only one individual that has the strong delusions.

I find it a very scary scripture.
Rate this post positively Quick reply to this message
 
Old 09-10-2008, 08:10 PM
 
Location: God's Country
22,752 posts, read 32,913,462 times
Reputation: 31458
Definitely the anti christ, praise God I won't be here for that!!!
Rate this post positively Quick reply to this message
 
Old 09-10-2008, 08:19 PM
 
Location: On a road heaven bound !
10,295 posts, read 9,157,324 times
Reputation: 17803
Quote:
What is your understanding on these scriptures?

2 Thess. 2
9 the coming of the lawless one is according to the working of Satan, with all power,signs, and lying wonders,
10 and with all unrighteousness deception among those who perish, because they did not recieve the love of the truth, that they might be saved.
11 And for this reason God will send them strong delusion, that they should believe the lie,
12 that they all may be condemned who did not believe the truth but had pleasure in unrighteousness.
(NKJV)
I was just reading these scripture this morning.....
This is my understanding to what I believe the Holy Spirit is showing me what the scripture is saying:

The lawless one will be empowered by Satan to counterfeit the miracles of Jesus (Acts2:22) with power, signs and wonders. But these counterfeits will be lying wonders because they will lead people away from God. This deception will mislead not believers, but only those who perish. They chose not to love.... the truth leading to salvation and thus opened themselves to deception.

God is not the author of deception, but He allows those who reject the truth to be misled by falsehood. Following such falsehood, they are eternally condemned. We are lost when we choose unrighteousness and it becomes our source of pleasure.

Paul's teaching on the Second Coming as found in both Thessalonian letters may be integrated. Christians who have died will certainly share in the return of Christ (1Thess. 4:13-18). Christians who are alive should be prepared so that His return will not take them by surprise, as it will unbelievers (1Thess. 5:1-11). On the other hand, Christians must not think that the Second Coming has occurred and they have been left out. Although Christ may come very soon, first a "lawless one" will arise to lead a great rebellion against God (1Thess. 2:1-12).

We are so seeing the spirit of rebellion in men/women's hearts against Gods will and the works of the lawlessness, "I'm going to do what I want to do and I don't care what the natural or spiritual, moral laws say"!!
There is no conscience of their wrong doing, morals rejected, no remorse from the guilt of their lying, cheating, stealing, killing, wicked ways, and so forth...and they love doing this, it is actually a pleasure for them, they don't care. That is the delusion the love of unrighteousness.

John 3:18-21
"He who believes in Him is not condemned; but he who does not believe is condemned already, because he has not believed in the name of the only begotten Son of God. And this is the condemnation, that the light has come into the world, and men loved darkness rather than light, because their deeds were evil. For everyone practicing evil hates the light and does not come to the light, lest their deeds should be exposed. But he who comes to the light, that his deeds may be clearly seen, that they have been done in God.

The evidence is before us....we see it everyday, the rejection of God and the truth in His word...

Blessings...
Rate this post positively Quick reply to this message
 
Old 09-10-2008, 08:44 PM
 
Location: All around the world.....
2,886 posts, read 7,980,902 times
Reputation: 1071
I just read over 2Thessalonians entire chapter and I'm understanding this to mean the Ant-Christ also
in the context of the entire chapter, it is all warnings
God Bless

2Thess 2:11 from Jamieson-Fausett Brown's Commentary

11 And for this cause God shall send them strong delusion, that they should believe a lie:

11. for this cause-because "they received not the love of the truth." The best safeguard against error is "the love of the truth."

shall send-Greek, "sends," or "is sending"; the "delusion" is already beginning. God judicially sends hardness of heart on those who have rejected the truth, and gives them up in righteous judgment to Satan's delusions (Isa 6:9, 10; Ro 1:24-26, 28). They first cast off the love of the truth, then God gives them up to Satan's delusions, then they settle down into "believing the lie": an awful climax (1Ki 22:22, 23; Eze 14:9; Job 12:16; Mt 24:5, 11; 1Ti 4:1).

strong delusion-Greek, "the powerful working of error," answering to the energizing "working of Satan" (2Th 2:9); the same expression as is applied to the Holy Ghost's operation in believers: "powerful" or "effectual (energizing) working" (Eph 1:19).

believe a lie-rather, "the lie" which Antichrist tells them, appealing to his miracles as proofs of it . (2Th 2:9).

Last edited by yhwhshalomjr; 09-10-2008 at 08:59 PM.. Reason: forgot to insert the source commentary
Rate this post positively Quick reply to this message
 
Old 09-10-2008, 09:05 PM
 
Location: All around the world.....
2,886 posts, read 7,980,902 times
Reputation: 1071
Thumbs up So true Curly

Quote:
Originally Posted by curlythecosmo View Post
I was just reading these scripture this morning.....
This is my understanding to what I believe the Holy Spirit is showing me what the scripture is saying:

The lawless one will be empowered by Satan to counterfeit the miracles of Jesus (Acts2:22) with power, signs and wonders. But these counterfeits will be lying wonders because they will lead people away from God. This deception will mislead not believers, but only those who perish. They chose not to love.... the truth leading to salvation and thus opened themselves to deception.

God is not the author of deception, but He allows those who reject the truth to be misled by falsehood. Following such falsehood, they are eternally condemned. We are lost when we choose unrighteousness and it becomes our source of pleasure.

Paul's teaching on the Second Coming as found in both Thessalonian letters may be integrated. Christians who have died will certainly share in the return of Christ (1Thess. 4:13-18). Christians who are alive should be prepared so that His return will not take them by surprise, as it will unbelievers (1Thess. 5:1-11). On the other hand, Christians must not think that the Second Coming has occurred and they have been left out. Although Christ may come very soon, first a "lawless one" will arise to lead a great rebellion against God (1Thess. 2:1-12).

Curlythecosmo
Quote:
We are so seeing the spirit of rebellion in men/women's hearts against Gods will and the works of the lawlessness, "I'm going to do what I want to do and I don't care what the natural or spiritual, moral laws say"!!
There is no conscience of their wrong doing, morals rejected, no remorse from the guilt of their lying, cheating, stealing, killing, wicked ways, and so forth...and they love doing this, it is actually a pleasure for them, they don't care. That is the delusion the love of unrighteousness.

John 3:18-21
"He who believes in Him is not condemned; but he who does not believe is condemned already, because he has not believed in the name of the only begotten Son of God. And this is the condemnation, that the light has come into the world, and men loved darkness rather than light, because their deeds were evil. For everyone practicing evil hates the light and does not come to the light, lest their deeds should be exposed. But he who comes to the light, that his deeds may be clearly seen, that they have been done in God.

The evidence is before us....we see it everyday, the rejection of God and the truth in His word...

Blessings...

This is so true and a very good observation that is increasing right now as we speak;
I'd just like to add, how the hearts of people are hardening right before our eyes, and it's seems at times ;almost beyond restoration;
The only way I can explain it is a "demonic spirit" this type spirit that is already at work;
where people are literally calling right wrong and "wrong right"
God Bless
Rate this post positively Quick reply to this message
 
Old 09-10-2008, 09:35 PM
 
Location: arizona ... most of the time
11,826 posts, read 11,570,846 times
Reputation: 1316
Quote:
Originally Posted by I LOVE NORTH CAROLINA View Post
Definitely the anti christ, praise God I won't be here for that!!!
How can you be so sure that you won't be, or are?

1 John 2:22
Who is the liar? It is the man who denies that Jesus is the Christ. Such a man is the antichrist—he denies the Father and the Son.

1 John 4:3
but every spirit that does not acknowledge Jesus is not from God. This is the spirit of the antichrist, which you have heard is coming and even now is already in the world.

2 John 1:7
Many deceivers, who do not acknowledge Jesus Christ as coming in the flesh, have gone out into the world. Any such person is the deceiver and the antichrist.


2 Thessalonians 2:4
He will oppose and will exalt himself over everything that is called God or is worshiped, so that he sets himself up in God's temple, proclaiming himself to be God.

Where will the anti-christ be found?... "in God's temple"

Historically taught, the anti christ is found within the church. He isn't against God, he takes the place of Gods mediator in the temple... "he sets himself up in God's temple".

1. Since God's temple is not a physical but spiritual, then the anti-christ would have to be in the same context, "he" is not a physical person we are dealing with. There is only one human that is the mediator for God, Jesus.

2. To set yourself up as God in Gods temple would mean that "he" is proclaiming to have some of Gods representitive attributes,.. holy, without error.

3 Jesus said "no one comes to the Father except by me" and yet the anti-christ is found in the temple of God. The anti-christ wants the role of mediator in Gods temple. Why else be found in Gods temple?

4. What are some of the characteristics of a person who sets himself up as Gods mediator?

1 Timothy 4:3
They forbid people to marry and order them to abstain from certain foods

Matthew 24:24
For false Christs and false prophets will appear and perform great signs and miracles to deceive even the elect—if that were possible.

Compare these two: Jesus vs the anti-christ in Gods temple


2 Thessalonians 2:9
The coming of the lawless one will be in accordance with the work of Satan displayed in all kinds of counterfeit miracles, signs and wonders


Hebrews 2:4
God also testified to it by signs, wonders and various miracles, and gifts of the Holy Spirit distributed according to his will.


Who would be found in Gods temple,
-acting as the subsitute medatior between God and human
- being called holy, father, without error
- displayed in all kinds of counterfeit miracles, signs and wonders
- forbids some to marry, not to eat certian foods
- masquarades as "light"
- has world leaders acknowleding him (of all faiths)

Who would fit that description?
Don't think that you haven't lived in the reign of the anti-christ.







Rate this post positively Quick reply to this message
 
Old 09-10-2008, 09:40 PM
 
Location: God's Country
22,752 posts, read 32,913,462 times
Reputation: 31458
[quote=twin.spin;5217590]How can you be so sure that you won't be, or are?

QUOTE]

Yes I am very sure that I won't be here, I believe God will rapture the church. So I'll already be with him or He'll send Jesus to get me.
Rate this post positively Quick reply to this message
 
Old 09-10-2008, 11:04 PM
 
537 posts, read 1,262,810 times
Reputation: 145
I agree 100% with Twin Spin.
Rate this post positively Quick reply to this message
Please register to post and access all features of our very popular forum. It is free and quick. Over $68,000 in prizes has already been given out to active posters on our forum. Additional giveaways are planned.

Detailed information about all U.S. cities, counties, and zip codes on our site: City-data.com.


 
Please update this thread with any new information or opinions. This open thread is still read by thousands of people, so we encourage all additional points of view.

Quick Reply
Message:
Over $104,000 in prizes was already given out to active posters on our forum and additional giveaways are planned!

Go Back   City-Data Forum > General Forums > Religion and Spirituality > Christianity

All times are GMT -6.

© 2005-2022, Advameg, Inc. · Please obey Forum Rules · Terms of Use and Privacy Policy · Bug Bounty

City-Data.com - Contact Us - Archive 1, 2, 3, 4, 5, 6, 7, 8, 9, 10, 11, 12, 13, 14, 15, 16, 17, 18, 19, 20, 21, 22, 23, 24, 25, 26, 27, 28, 29, 30, 31, 32, 33, 34, 35, 36, 37 - Top