On becoming a Christian.... (lordship, hell, punishment, woman)

[carlos123]

I've started this thread to discuss what porton (nickname) said in another thread about his not being a Christian. I did not want to sidetrack the original thread from it's topic but also wanted to fully respond to what porton said. So starting a new thread seemed like the best thing to do.

The next post is my response to porton. If anyone wants to pipe in (Christian or not)...feel free.

Thanks for being open about things porton and for responding honestly to my questions. Much appreciated.

Carlos

PS. The original thread can be found at //www.city-data.com/forum/chris...handler-6.html

[carlos123]

Originally Posted by porton

So if God is the only person who knows the true meaning behind each word in the vocabulary that we use to communicate, then does that mean the language we use everyday means something completetly different to god? does god even speak english?

I believe that the Lord looks at the heart porton. Language is just a method of expressing what is on our hearts. As such the Lord understands every language which we use, whenever we use any language to communicate with Him.

i hope i dont seem like im coming across aggrisive, or sarcastic becuase im not, all my questions are sincere becuase i am curious for other peoples opinions. The knowledge i gain from other people helps me reflect and make my own decicions, as i am undicided about alot of things.

You have said nothing that comes accross as aggresive or sarcastic or any other such thing porton. At least to me. On the contrary, I feel quite honored to be discussing things with you. I say that sincerely.

in the situation between you being approched at night in your truck by a panhandler, i personally beleive you did the right thing. common sense wise. Its is only safe to stay in side your truck at night if a stranger approches. The saying is after all "love thy neighbour" not "love thy stranger". It was mainly the the whole idea that "all panhandlers are sinners" that troubles me

All panhandlers are indeed sinners porton. But no differently than I, or you, or anyone else is a sinner. We all fall short of doing and thinking the things we should. The things that reflect the righteousness of God. His perfect love, patience, kindness, holiness, selflessness, and all the other qualities that make God who He is.

We all fall short of being righteous and not like God in different ways. My sin tendency might be to lust or get mad. Yours might be to get drunk or disrespect your parents (just examples - I don't really know what your sin tendencies are). Someone else's might be to be judgmental and self-righteous. But we ALL are sinful and fall short of being like God in His righteousness.

We cannot, no matter how hard we try, make ourselves righteous and like God. We don't have it in us to do that.

Only a person who has been born again and indwelled by the Holy Spirit of God can truly start to live righteously from the inside out. They have been born again and made righteous in their spirits, on the inside. That is why it is called the new birth or being born again.

The bible i cant trust becuase it has all been writtern by word of man.

If you choose not to trust what the Bible says because it was written by man (i.e. someone, a person, wrote it down with their hands) then it seems to me that in order to be consistent in this belief, you also cannot trust anything else written by the hand of man porton. You cannot trust encyclopedias, or newspapers, legal contracts, letters or emails from family members or even a girlfriend, or anything else written by the hand of man.

If you trust other things written by the hand of man then may I encourage you to give the Bible equal footing and at least be open to trusting what it says. Even thought it too was written by the hand of man...at least with respect to the method that was used to create it (i.e. the hand of man which I believe was nevertheless inspired by God).

the bible physically could not have been writtern by god himself.

Well...God being God...it seems to me that He could indeed have written it Himself . But I believe you are correct here in saying that instead...it was written down through the hand of man.

But again porton that does not make it less or more true than anything else written by the hand of man. One must judge what is written by other criteria it seems to me.

What was the character of those who wrote what they did? Were they close enough to the actual events to have had a reasonable chance of having written accurately about the events that happened? Were they eyewitnesses? And other such criteria.

What if a long time ago people were just trying to scare people into doing the right thing (by saying things like they'll go to hell) and by fear it was that the churches gained so much power?

By implication I assume you are saying that perhaps what is in the Bible was made up to get people to serve the church and make it powerful. Well...it seems to me that what is written is not having that effect on you personally. So if you are not giving in to what it says to avoid the hell it talks of...why would people back then give in to it? They were people just like you and me. With similar desires in life. Thinking people. No more or less foolish than us.

Paul himself was a pretty smart fellow. Probably smarter than you and me put together. And he persecuted the church and had some followers of Jesus killed. He had everything going for him in terms of his Jewish upbringing and culture. Why would he have then given all that up to in turn get persecuted by the same Jews who once respected him? When he joined the Christians. How do you explain Paul's conversion porton?

what do you mean by relying on his death? when you say "you" are you speaking of me personally? or just "you" in general?

Well...it could apply to you personally or to anyone really. We all must rely on His death and cease trying to be good enough on our own before God, in order to become Christians.

If you rely on your friends to do something for you porton, you no longer rely on yourself to do the same thing (unless you don't trust your friends to do what you are relying on them to do for you). Likewise when a person chooses to rely on what Jesus did on the cross (i.e. die for our sins and suffer the punishment our sins deserved, in our place) then they no longer try and make up for the wrong they have done in life. It's been forgiven. So why try and make up for it? Instead Christians live for God, not to make up for past or present sins, but rather to please Him. Out of thankfulness for what He did for us. Out of respect for who He is or any number of other motives that have nothing to do with making up for our past sins.

The forgiveness Christians receive is once for all. It is for past, present, and future sins.

i do not mind expressing my thoughts and beliefs as i am still quite young and am still quite unsure and from me you will recieve my most honest answer.

You might be young porton but it seems to me that you are way ahead of many people who are not as honest and I appreciate that about you.

I am not a christian becuase i have been given the gift of a brain from whatever joyful miracle gave it to me so i am able to have thoughts and feelings of my own that no one can change unless i decide so.

If having a brain keeps one from being a Christian...I wonder what happened to mine . Just kidding porton but seriously...I have a brain too. Some people think I have a pretty good one. How do you explain my having become a Christian?

I dont see why i would have been given life if all i would be is punished if i do not live it the way the bible says.

It's not a matter of just living the way the bible says porton. It's a matter primarily and foremost of entering into relationship with the Living One. God. I am talking about real relationship porton. Not just some head thing where you relate to a bunch of religious thought (otherwise known as theology). God gave you life because He felt joy in creating you and rejoiced in the potential of future relationship with you. Just as your parents felt joy at your birth porton.

Hell is not so much a punishment as a consequence porton. It is a consequence that God does not desire for anyone. It is a consequence that we bring upon ourselves when we continue to live in rebellion to God.

in saying these please do not think that i am implying that christians do not have brains, but to me it seems that they have let they're decisions be dependent on what the bible says, and considering i do not trust the bible, maybe this is where my problem in becoming a christian lies.

Christians are no different than you or anyone else in the sense that they too have to make decisions every day. To continue following the Lord and do things His way. It's called dying to self. They have made the initial decision to come under His lordship where Jesus Christ becomes their master but that choice must be lived out every day of our lives.

My decisions in life are not dependent on the Bible. As if without one I cannot make any decisions at all. Rather my decisions are influenced by what the Bible says because I see the Bible as expressing to me the thoughts of my Lord about various issues. And I love the Lord so I want to do what pleases Him.

i am only 15, and have alot yet to live if i am lucky enough, and right now in my life i am not convinced that anyone is going to save me.

Do you believe at least that you need saving porton? Do you believe that you are able on your own to be good enough to deserve God's favor? Either in this life or the next?

I will answer more tommorrow, God willing, porton. I have to get to bed and responding to the last part of your post will take a bit .

Have a good night!

Carlos

Yet to respond to:

I was a believer in god when i was little, and i prayed every single night for everything, i would also recite the lords pray everynight and so on and so forth. that all eventually stopped as a grew up and realised my prays where never being answered and no one would judge my good and bad actions, other than my concious. which i like to keep clear. is it okay if i ask you, why are you a christian? if you dont mind sharing it.

i really hope that anything i have said hasnt offended anyone, that was never my intention.

-Amyy

[porton]

well, i just read all of your reply posts carlos, which i shall too have a ponder about before i reply it may take some time to type my reply so ill try and do it later tonight

just one little question,

how is lust a sin? isnt it just a natural instinct that shows us how to reproduce? isnt it no different from the instinct that causes animals to re-create, even bacteria?
i hope that made sense

i shall reply to the larger part a little later

[Nikk]

Originally Posted by porton

well, i just read all of your reply posts carlos, which i shall too have a ponder about before i reply it may take some time to type my reply so ill try and do it later tonight

just one little question,

how is lust a sin? isnt it just a natural instinct that shows us how to reproduce? isnt it no different from the instinct that causes animals to re-create, even bacteria?
i hope that made sense

i shall reply to the larger part a little later

Lust is a sin!

We cannot use animals as our moral compass. If we do, then insest is OK, rape is OK, killing is OK (and animals kill for both food or just to kill for killing sake), homosexual activity would then be OK. But, we know that these things are not. The light of the word of God reveals the sinful nature of these actions. Sinse we did not evolve from a lower life form. And since we are created in the image of God. We should act god-like or holy or righteous. How do we live this way? Throught reading the word of God, the bible and through prayer. Jesus Christ should be our moral compass because he IS the way the truth and the life.

[HotinAZ]

Originally Posted by porton

well, i just read all of your reply posts carlos, which i shall too have a ponder about before i reply it may take some time to type my reply so ill try and do it later tonight

just one little question,

how is lust a sin? isnt it just a natural instinct that shows us how to reproduce? isnt it no different from the instinct that causes animals to re-create, even bacteria?
i hope that made sense

i shall reply to the larger part a little later

Heyas Porton!

I will try to answer the question about lust real quick, even though you didn't ask me.

God in His Word says the heart of man is desperately wicked.

Jer 17:9
"The heart is deceitful above all, and desperately wicked; Who can know it?

Jesus says and clarifies the Old Testament law concerning adultery, because even though they might not have committed the sin in the flesh, they still committed the sin with an impure heart.

Matt 5:27-28
"You have heard that it was said, 'YOU SHALL NOT COMMIT ADULTERY';
but I say to you that everyone who looks at a woman with lust for her has already committed adultery with her in his heart.


Noticing a beautiful woman, and pointing out her beauty, or thinking how pretty she is, is NOT lusting AFTER her. Thinking of this same woman with a physical LONGING to have intercourse, and seeing yourself with this woman IS. See the difference? If you think with the physical longing, then it becomes YOUR obsession until this task is complete. Not out of love, but almost with a consuming mentality. A coveting attitude. Your GOD! This goes the same with anger in your heart without CAUSE for another person.

God want's His children's hearts clean. He wants you to put Him above ALL in your life, To even sit on the Throne of your heart, which is the Temple made without hands. He then can guide you throughout your life in repentance, and sanctification. He will even call YOU, His Son!

But first there is much to be done. Resisting the devil in His Son's Name, will cause the adversary to flee. You can do this only having being cleansed with the Blood of Jesus for the forgiveness of your sins. The desires of this life in the flesh, WILL GET EASIER to resist. But they will always be there, while we are still living in the flesh. For this is natural in this environment. It is this war that Paul talks about in Romans 7.

But if you haven't been cleansed by the Blood of the Lamb, then sin reigns in your bodies. It IS king over you. You WILL obey it. As we read, the heart is wicked beyond comprehension. It will lie to you, so as to cause you to fall from grace. We see this throughout history, even from men who were "Godly". Even today! But Paul says in Romans 6,

Therefore do not let SIN REIGN in your mortal body so that you OBEY its LUSTS, and do not go on presenting the members of your body to sin {as} instruments of unrighteousness; but present yourselves to God as those alive from the dead, and your members {as} instruments of righteousness to God.

[World Citizen]

Originally Posted by carlos123

I've started this thread to discuss what porton (nickname) said in another thread about his not being a Christian. I did not want to sidetrack the original thread from it's topic but also wanted to fully respond to what porton said. So starting a new thread seemed like the best thing to do.

The next post is my response to porton. If anyone wants to pipe in (Christian or not)...feel free.

Thanks for being open about things porton and for responding honestly to my questions. Much appreciated.

Carlos

PS. The original thread can be found at //www.city-data.com/forum/chris...handler-6.html

Carlos,

I think it's wonderful that you started this thread and wanted to take the time to be certain that porton's questions about becoming a Christian got answered fully...
That truly is the Christian response.

[studedude]

[quote=porton;5367806]
how is lust a sin? isnt it just a natural instinct that shows us how to reproduce? isnt it no different from the instinct that causes animals to re-create, even bacteria?
i hope that made sense

You are right. Lusting after my wife is not a sin. Lusting after your wife is.

Your comment about not being a Christian because you have a "brain from whatever joyful miracle gave it to me" caught my eye. Assume for a minute that your brain was given to you by God. Use it to understand this. Because God is holy He needs to set a standard for people who are going to spend an eternity with Him. What should that standard be. People who give a lot of money to worthy causes? God loves poor people. That won't work. People who solve the worlds woes? God loves people who are not intellectually gifted. That won't work. How about people who are good? Everyone can be good. How good do you have to be? As good as Mother Teresa, Billy Graham, Mark Phelps? Where does He set the standard? How about if He sends His Son to live a perfect life and be sacrificed in our place. Now the standard is to accept that sacrifice. Available to everyone, same standard, brilliant.

What non-christians do not understand is the life change that is produced by that decision. While we are still not perfect. Our desires change

[carlos123]

Thanks for joining our conversation you all! Great to see! Please keep it up and share whatever you feel would be good to share. Some great thoughts have been shared!

Now that I have a few minutes I would like to continue my response to the last part of porton's previous post.

I was a believer in god when i was little, and i prayed every single night for everything, i would also recite the lords pray everynight and so on and so forth. that all eventually stopped as a grew up and realised my prays where never being answered and no one would judge my good and bad actions, other than my concious. which i like to keep clear.

A couple of thoughts on what you said above porton....

I too was a believer in God, as you were, before I became a Christian. I other words...I believed that God existed, I prayed to Him now and then, and every once in a while I actually relied on Him for something (I think). But my belief was not saving faith. There is a big difference.

When I just believed in God I did not rely on the sacrifice of Jesus Christ to save me. I trusted in myself to be good enough to make it to heaven on my own. And it wasn't just the heaven part either. I was master of my own life. I believed in God but ran my own life. Just the way I pleased to run it. I thought I knew better than even God when it came down to it, how to run my life.

Also...while I believed God existed I could not claim to have much of any personal relationship with Him.

A personal relationship with God is only possible if the issue of our having offended God by our sins is taken care of.

I was always aware of having sinned against God in something but I never had an assurance of forgiveness. Oh...I prayed for God to forgive me but my prayer was one of hoping that God would. Not really being sure that He would. And as a result I could no more have a peaceful relationship with God than I could have with a wife if I had offended her in some way but could never be sure that she had truly forgiven me.

I could not get rid of guilt.

is it okay if i ask you, why are you a christian? if you dont mind sharing it.

Thanks for asking porton. Please feel free to ask me anything you want. I mean anything. About my personal life, my convictions, anything at all. I may not answer everything publicly on the forum but I don't mind you asking at all.

Why am I a Christian, heh? Well...let's see.

In short it's because I truly believe that Jesus Christ died for my sins. And that God wants me to have a real relationship with Him. That excites me porton. I mean that God, who created all things, is there walking with me and being with me wherever I go and whatever I do. He encourages me when I need encouragement. He corrects me when I need to be corrected. He understands me fully. More completely than I even understand myself. He approves of the person He has made me to be and loves me completely.

I will never, ever be completely alone in this life porton. I have come close to death several times (or at least I thought I was close to death) and you know something? The Lord was with me during those times. If I would have died I would have died alone in the sense of not having anyone who cared about me around me. But I would not have died alone in the sense that Jesus Christ was with me and enveloped me in His love. I knew that I was forgiven. I knew where I would wake up.

I have experienced a love in my relationship with God porton that is very hard to describe. There are times when incredible peace floods my heart. So much so that it's like I am walking around in a daze.

I have grown content with my life porton. I no longer strive to be somewhere else or to be somebody different than who I am in Christ.

Don't get me wrong porton. I still struggle at times. Just recently the Lord brought me to a place of death where I needed to let go of my absolute desire to leave the cold of Canada and head to Florida. I needed to surrender that to Him too.

I still twist and turn and argue with God and sometimes even get mad at Him. Sometimes I fall into deep despair. Sometimes I feel like my life is a great big waste and no good for anything. But...the Lord is always there for me. He has always pulled me out of such moments.

I don't know if you can even realize what it is to have God on your side porton and to know that He is on your side because He has forgiven you of all of your sins.

I no longer care whether I ever achieve much of anything in this life from a natural perspective. I have God. And if I have Him, I have everything I could possibly want in Him. I can enjoy a life with God that nothing I could ever have in this life would ever come close to giving me.

I could die tonight and die content. Knowing that I never accomplished much in this life. Knowing that I wasted many years of my life. Doing nothing and going nowhere. Making wrong choices. But knowing too that the Lord is with me and that I would die with something more valuable than anything this life has to offer. I would die with the Lord at my side. I would die having a relationship with God!! I would die forgiven. I would die into the arms of my loving Saviour. What a way to die!! What a glorious way to go porton!!!

I used to want to become this big preacher. Moving the masses. Speaking out boldly for God and being used greatly by Him. No more. I am content to just have Jesus! And to enjoy my relationship with Him.

I still speak for Him (I am here). I still share what He teaches me. But it's not to become somebody porton. I already am somebody in Him. He bought me with His blood. I am valuable to Him.

I don't have to strive to be somebody anymore. I don't have to worry and be concerned if I don't have much opportunity in this life to do something significant. I have Him! And what greater significance can there be than to walk alongside God. To bring pleasure to Him by what I think or do with the days I have remaining.

Don't get me wrong porton. I am still encased in a sinful nature. I still fall. I still doubt. I still lust - yes lust. Sometimes I have done things that a Christian ought not to do. Like gone off and viewed pornography on the Internet or worse.

But I know that I am forgiven. Christ died for all my sins. ALL my sins. And I can turn from my sin, get up, and continue to walk at His side.

My short reply has turned into a long discourse but I wanted you to get a glimpse of why I am a Christian porton. It's more than just because I believe the bible is true. It is. But it's far more than that.

Becoming a Christian was probably the hardest thing I ever did in life. I struggled and struggled before God to wiggle my way into His forgiveness without giving up the right to call the shots in my own life. It was a matter of wills. His will verses mine.

I sensed Him coming close. It was a scary thing for me porton. I couldn't hide anymore. And I knew that if I turned my back on Him then that I would probably harden my heart and end up in hell. I didn't want that porton.

I saw how worthless all my attempts to be good had been. I saw that in the eyes of God, compared to His holiness and righteousness, I was nothing. My good deeds were like filthy rags. I came to the place of realizing that I could not save myself no matter what I did.

And that I needed to make a decision. Just as you do too porton.

You go to a Christian school porton. So you are probably aware of or have heard most of what I or others here have shared with you.

Let me share something with you porton. You can ask all the questions in the world and perhaps get great answers. Only to come up with other questions and get still more great answers. But you will never, ever get to a point where there will be no more questions. No more possible doubts. No more uncertainties.

At some point you must choose to act in faith. Faith is acting on something you know in your head to be true but which you have not seen with your eyes porton. It starts in your heart and works itself out into what you do.

One can become a Christian by drawing near to God through faith in what the Bible says about the death of Christ. That faith might manifest itself in different ways. It's not the way that is important porton. It's the faith that is expressed through what you do that is.

One can express faith in what the Bible says about Christ by saying a sincere sinner's prayer. Or by being baptized. Or even by posting a prayer that comes from your heart on this thread. It is all faith expressing itself outwardly porton. One can do any of these things without faith in God and it won't do any good. So it's not the doing of these things (i.e. praying, being baptized, going up at an altar call, etc..) that saves a person. It is the faith in God being expressed through these acts that does.

There is no way around the need to act in faith porton. No way. You will never know for sure in the natural that God is there. Not 100%. If you did there would be no need for faith.

You will only experience the reality of God AFTER you act in faith.

The bible says that he who comes to God must believe that He is and that He is a rewarder of those who come to Him. By faith.

He is there porton. You just don't see Him with your eyes. Like every other person who ever became a Christian, you must choose to act in faith. To let go and entrust yourself into the arms of God completely. Without reservation. If you don't...you cannot be saved. If you don't accept what Jesus did for you on the cross there is nothing else by which you can be saved.

Carlos

PS. By the way is your name Amy? I noticed you signed off as that at the end of your previous post. Not that it makes any difference to me but I am curious.

[porton]

hello everyone who has sent me replys answering my questions, especially carlos

im sorry i am taking so long to reply, but i have little time on the computer at home as my mother prefers me to be doing homework or something "constructive" hah
its also my end of year core exams also and ive been spending alot of time revising for!

but i will try to get back to everyone as soon as possible

bare with me

-Amyy
and i have read your replys, it will take some time to write back ^-^

[carlos123]

No worries porton / Amy?....this thread will still be here whenever you get time to respond. Even if I don't come around to this thread to look see I will get an instant email the moment you or anyone else posts on it. Whether that is tonight, tommorrow, or next month.

I will continue to keep you in my prayers as I have been doing porton. I do hope that you can come to a place of knowing the Lord Jesus as Christians do. I have never, ever, ever regretted my decision to entrust myself to Him and I would not trade what I have in relationship with Him for anything, and I mean anything, that this world could offer me.

Might I also suggest porton, and this may take some courage on your part, that you show this thread to your parents...but only if they are Christians. Your parents, for all the faults you might see in them, do love you and want what is best for you. It might also help them to realize that the Lord can use even the Internet in someone's life .

Carlos