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Old 10-20-2008, 06:51 AM
 
Location: Pleasant Shade Tn
2,214 posts, read 5,577,950 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by renriq02 View Post
Please tell me which part in the OT has been changed in the bible?

I have seen probably one change, and that's the word jehovah.

The word jehovah is nonexistent, and is manmade.

Watchtower is also nonexistent as they have 'prophesied' many false predictions.
The word Jehovah is a commonly accepted English pronunciation of the Tetragrammeton which is literally translated YHWH or Yahweh. It is the
name of God. Whether you agree w/the pronunciation or not is irrelevant. I
feel it is imparative that we use His name in our worship and therefore, whether you say 'Yahweh', 'Jehovah', 'Iehova' or what have you, it still needs to be spoken.

I'm not sure what you mean by 'Watchtower' is nonexistent. Watchtower is the name of one of our magazines and is also a legal symbol used by Jehovah's Witnesses to establish a recognized printing facility for their literature. Watchtower is not a person or a group of people. It's a corporation. As far as 'false predictions' go, I am not aware of any that were held by the entire body of Witnesses. There was some speculation in the early days that turned out to be unfounded and we have stated this openly since then. God's message remains unchanged and so does the work that we do worldwide
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Old 10-20-2008, 07:23 AM
 
Location: Charlotte, North Carolina
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Ummm I dont think so.

Remember that this so called name was in the Old Testament.

There are no 'w' in the Hebrew alphabet or no letters that pronounce like a W.

The word was written with annotation so the 'correct' pronunciation is unknown to man.

The real name was closely guarded and only one person knew the name of God. That was the High Priest. He would only invoke it ONCE PER YEAR. It was passed on to the NEXT High Priest. No other person knew the name of God.

The bible clearly says there's only ONE NAME given to man...the name of Jesus. The name ABOVE all names.

Quote:
Originally Posted by alicenavada View Post
The word Jehovah is a commonly accepted English pronunciation of the Tetragrammeton which is literally translated YHWH or Yahweh. It is the
name of God. Whether you agree w/the pronunciation or not is irrelevant. I
feel it is imparative that we use His name in our worship and therefore, whether you say 'Yahweh', 'Jehovah', 'Iehova' or what have you, it still needs to be spoken.

I'm not sure what you mean by 'Watchtower' is nonexistent. Watchtower is the name of one of our magazines and is also a legal symbol used by Jehovah's Witnesses to establish a recognized printing facility for their literature. Watchtower is not a person or a group of people. It's a corporation. As far as 'false predictions' go, I am not aware of any that were held by the entire body of Witnesses. There was some speculation in the early days that turned out to be unfounded and we have stated this openly since then. God's message remains unchanged and so does the work that we do worldwide
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Old 10-20-2008, 07:37 AM
 
Location: Pleasant Shade Tn
2,214 posts, read 5,577,950 times
Reputation: 561
Quote:
Originally Posted by renriq02 View Post
Ummm I dont think so.

Remember that this so called name was in the Old Testament.

There are no 'w' in the Hebrew alphabet or no letters that pronounce like a W.

The word was written with annotation so the 'correct' pronunciation is unknown to man.

The real name was closely guarded and only one person knew the name of God. That was the High Priest. He would only invoke it ONCE PER YEAR. It was passed on to the NEXT High Priest. No other person knew the name of God.

The bible clearly says there's only ONE NAME given to man...the name of Jesus. The name ABOVE all names.

Actually, the name of God is used many many times in the OT and by many people, not just the High Priest and not just once per year. THe letters we translate as Jehovah were used in prayer, songs of praise, etc. There is no scripture that says we are only to use the name of Christ in our worship. I'm sorry but I roundly disagree wit that. Jesus used the name of God on several occasions, mostly when quoting from the Hebrew scriptures.

EIther way, I'm certain that God would rather we attempt to pronounce his name than simply call him by a title. Or worse yet, call him by his son's name.
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Old 10-20-2008, 07:42 AM
 
Location: Charlotte, North Carolina
5,137 posts, read 16,585,696 times
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You should take up a class on the Old Testament, Jewish History, and learn to read/write Hebrew.

They have used Adonai, Elohim, Hashem, etc. but not the name of God.
You will read that the High Priest would only say His name ONCE PER YEAR.....that's how holy it is/was. I believe that this is even written in the book of Leviticus.

Why would God want you to 'attempt' pronouncing His name when one of his Ten Commandments is to NOT say the Lord's name in vain.

Quote:
Originally Posted by alicenavada View Post
Actually, the name of God is used many many times in the OT and by many people, not just the High Priest and not just once per year. THe letters we translate as Jehovah were used in prayer, songs of praise, etc. There is no scripture that says we are only to use the name of Christ in our worship. I'm sorry but I roundly disagree wit that. Jesus used the name of God on several occasions, mostly when quoting from the Hebrew scriptures.

EIther way, I'm certain that God would rather we attempt to pronounce his name than simply call him by a title. Or worse yet, call him by his son's name.
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Old 10-20-2008, 08:05 AM
 
Location: Pleasant Shade Tn
2,214 posts, read 5,577,950 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by renriq02 View Post
You should take up a class on the Old Testament, Jewish History, and learn to read/write Hebrew.

They have used Adonai, Elohim, Hashem, etc. but not the name of God.
You will read that the High Priest would only say His name ONCE PER YEAR.....that's how holy it is/was. I believe that this is even written in the book of Leviticus.

Why would God want you to 'attempt' pronouncing His name when one of his Ten Commandments is to NOT say the Lord's name in vain.
You assume I have not? How presumptuous of you! The tetragrammeton itself occurs 6,828 times in the Hebrew Text alone. Hebrew Scholars render it Yehowah and Yahweh most commonly...the abbreviated form of the name is also evident in term 'Hallelejah' (jah is latinized) which means 'praise Jah you people'. The pronunciation being 'uncertain' has led many translators to replace the name with Adonai, Elohim etc which only means 'Lord' or Sovreign Lord' and hardly gives God's name its proper place. I will have to examine the text you are speaking of to reaquaint myself with it but since, as I've pointed out, the name of God was used so often among his people, we have little reason to assume that we should not use it ourselves. Taking the Lord's name in 'vain' would obviously not apply to praise, but instead applied to using the name disrespectfully.
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Old 10-20-2008, 08:37 AM
 
Location: Charlotte, North Carolina
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Hebrew scholars? The translation was 'lost'.
Today's interpretation are 'theories' not facts of what His name really is.

The word Jehovah has only been known for about 4 centuries....

It was NOT common for it to be used among His people.
Where did you read this? Even Jews today follow strict guidelines.
To say they were more liberal back in the day is preposterous as society becomes MORE liberal not more conservative.

Even the liberal Jews don't try to say His name.

I'm not assuming as I know for a fact that anyone who knows Jewish traditions/teachings/customs will know that NO JEW tries to pronounce His name or even write it.

Quote:
Originally Posted by alicenavada View Post
You assume I have not? How presumptuous of you! The tetragrammeton itself occurs 6,828 times in the Hebrew Text alone. Hebrew Scholars render it Yehowah and Yahweh most commonly...the abbreviated form of the name is also evident in term 'Hallelejah' (jah is latinized) which means 'praise Jah you people'. The pronunciation being 'uncertain' has led many translators to replace the name with Adonai, Elohim etc which only means 'Lord' or Sovreign Lord' and hardly gives God's name its proper place. I will have to examine the text you are speaking of to reaquaint myself with it but since, as I've pointed out, the name of God was used so often among his people, we have little reason to assume that we should not use it ourselves. Taking the Lord's name in 'vain' would obviously not apply to praise, but instead applied to using the name disrespectfully.
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Old 10-20-2008, 08:53 AM
 
Location: Pleasant Shade Tn
2,214 posts, read 5,577,950 times
Reputation: 561
Quote:
Originally Posted by renriq02 View Post
Hebrew scholars? The translation was 'lost'.
Today's interpretation are 'theories' not facts of what His name really is.

The word Jehovah has only been known for about 4 centuries....

It was NOT common for it to be used among His people.
Where did you read this? Even Jews today follow strict guidelines.
To say they were more liberal back in the day is preposterous as society becomes MORE liberal not more conservative.

Even the liberal Jews don't try to say His name.

I'm not assuming as I know for a fact that anyone who knows Jewish traditions/teachings/customs will know that NO JEW tries to pronounce His name or even write it.

You are denying that Hebrew Scholars have studied the name of God in depth? I'm confused It has been an ongoing subject of study since the existence of the the bible itself. The name was used regularly by both the common people and the priest class and this is per The Jewish Encyclopedia, the earliest copies known in existence of the Greek Septuagint, as well as various bible dictionaries etc. I've spent my life researching this stuff. Do you really need me to supply you with every reference work? Goodness.
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Old 10-20-2008, 09:16 AM
 
8,989 posts, read 14,562,395 times
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I thought Jews would not utter the name of God afraid that mispronouncing it would mean certain death?
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Old 10-20-2008, 09:25 AM
 
Location: Charlotte, North Carolina
5,137 posts, read 16,585,696 times
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Is this WHY Jehovah has only been used in the LAST 4 centuries?

BTW - have you supplied any ?

We're speaking about Hebrew here....not Greek

Quote:
Originally Posted by alicenavada View Post
You are denying that Hebrew Scholars have studied the name of God in depth? I'm confused It has been an ongoing subject of study since the existence of the the bible itself. The name was used regularly by both the common people and the priest class and this is per The Jewish Encyclopedia, the earliest copies known in existence of the Greek Septuagint, as well as various bible dictionaries etc. I've spent my life researching this stuff. Do you really need me to supply you with every reference work? Goodness.
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Old 10-20-2008, 09:28 AM
 
Location: Charlotte, North Carolina
5,137 posts, read 16,585,696 times
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here's what the Jewish Encyclopedia says since you want to use it as a reference

JewishEncyclopedia.com - JEHOVAH:

A mispronunciation (introduced by Christian theologians, but almost entirely disregarded by the Jews) of the Hebrew "Yhwh," the (ineffable) name of God (the Tetragrammaton or "Shem ha-Meforash"). This pronunciation is grammatically impossible; it arose through pronouncing the vowels of the "ḳere" (marginal reading of the Masorites: http://www.jewishencyclopedia.com/volume7/V07p087004.jpg (broken link) = "Adonay") with the consonants of the "ketib" (text-reading: http://www.jewishencyclopedia.com/volume7/V07p087005.jpg (broken link) = "Yhwh")—"Adonay" (the Lord) being substituted with one exception wherever Yhwh occurs in the Biblical and liturgical books. "Adonay" presents the vowels "shewa" (the composite http://www.jewishencyclopedia.com/volume7/V07p087006.jpg (broken link) under the guttural א becomes simple http://www.jewishencyclopedia.com/volume7/V07p087007.jpg (broken link) under the י), "ḥolem," and "ḳameẓ," and these give the reading http://www.jewishencyclopedia.com/volume7/V07p087008.jpg (broken link) (= "Jehovah"). Sometimes, when the two names http://www.jewishencyclopedia.com/volume7/V07p087009.jpg (broken link) and http://www.jewishencyclopedia.com/volume7/V07p087010.jpg (broken link) occur together, the former is pointed with "ḥatef segol" (http://www.jewishencyclopedia.com/volume7/V07p087011.jpg (broken link)) under the י —thus, http://www.jewishencyclopedia.com/volume7/V07p087012.jpg (broken link) (="Jehovah")—to indicate that in this combination it is to be pronounced "Elohim" (http://www.jewishencyclopedia.com/volume7/V07p087013.jpg (broken link)). These substitutions of "Adonay"and "Elohim" for Yhwh were devised to avoid the profanation of the Ineffable Name (hence http://www.jewishencyclopedia.com/volume7/V07p088001.jpg (broken link) is also written http://www.jewishencyclopedia.com/volume7/V07p088002.jpg (broken link), or even http://www.jewishencyclopedia.com/volume7/V07p088003.jpg (broken link), and read "ha-Shem" = "the Name ").
The reading "Jehovah" is a comparatively recent invention. The earlier Christian commentators report that the Tetragrammaton was written but not pronounced by the Jews (see Theodoret, "Question. xv. in Ex." [Field, "Hexapla," i. 90, to Ex. vi. 3]; Jerome, "Præfatio Regnorum," and his letter to Marcellus, "Epistola," 136, where he notices that "PIPI" [= ΠIΠI = http://www.jewishencyclopedia.com/volume7/V07p088004.jpg (broken link)] is presented in Greek manuscripts; Origen, see "Hexapla" to Ps. lxxi. 18 and Isa. i. 2; comp. concordance to LXX. by Hatch and Redpath, under ΠIΠI, which occasionally takes the place of the usual κύριος, in Philo's Bible quotations; κύριος = "Adonay" is the regular translation
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