Trinity - How can Jesus be God if he is the Son of God? (sin, verse)
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Because even if Christ was created...he was created perfect. His sinless self was more than sufficient to buy back the promise of everlasting life that Adam lost.
That is exactly right. Romans 5:19 For just as through one man's disobedience many people were made sinners, so also through one man's obedience many people will be made righteous. Through one MAN`S obediance. The comparison here is between 2 men. One who was disobedient and one who was obedient. Jesus was created perfect and giving God`s attributes and the fullness of his spirit. Jesus came to earth in the form of a man but he was God. He was God because the Father gave him his Godliness and he was sent for a specific purpose. He had to be the savior of the world and to do that..he had to be a man..but he had to be perfect but only God is perfect. So he was giving his Godliness by the Father.
That is exactly right. Romans 5:19 For just as through one man's disobedience many people were made sinners, so also through one man's obedience many people will be made righteous. Through one MAN`S obediance. The comparison here is between 2 men. One who was disobedient and one who was obedient. Jesus was created perfect and giving God`s attributes and the fullness of his spirit. Jesus came to earth in the form of a man but he was God. He was God because the Father gave him his Godliness and he was sent for a specific purpose. He had to be the savior of the world and to do that..he had to be a man..but he had to be perfect but only God is perfect. So he was giving his Godliness by the Father.
How could he be 'created perfect' and given Godliness if he was already God? Do you not see the flaw in that?Evidently God is not the only one who is perfect...Christ is perfect. The bible mentions him as sinless. Adam was likewise sinless until he chose to sin.
How could he be 'created perfect' and given Godliness if he was already God? Do you not see the flaw in that?Evidently God is not the only one who is perfect...Christ is perfect. The bible mentions him as sinless. Adam was likewise sinless until he chose to sin.
Christ is perfect..you are right. He is also God. God is a title.. God is not his name.
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<B>Who and What is Jesus Christ?[/CENTER]
Jesus Christ IS A MAN! "For there is ONE GOD, and ONE MEDIATOR of God and mankind, A MAN, Christ Jesus..." </B>(I Tim. 2:5).
"Thou art the Christ, THE SON OF THE LIVING GOD" (Mat. 16:16).
"Christ, Who is the IMAGE of the invisible God" (II Cor. 4:4).
"The Lord Jesus Christ, the SON OF THE FATHER" (II Jn 3).
"The BEGINNING of the creation of God" (Rev. 3:14 JKV)
"God’s CREATIVE ORIGINAL" (Rev. 3:14 CLNT).
"If God were your Father, you would have loved Me. For OUT OF GOD I CAME FORTH and am arriving" (John 8:42).
"Nor Jesus said to him, Why are you terming Me good? No one is good except ONE, GOD" (Mark 10:18).
"In the beginning was the Word, and the Word was toward God, and God was the Word" (John 1:1). (This is the proper order of the Greek words. Jesus is the Logos or Spokesman of God).
I believe most can see from the above Scriptures that there are numerous and fundamental differences between the Father and Jesus the Son. However, there are still reasons to ask whether or not Jesus Christ, the Son of God the Father, is not also "God.?" Is Christ for example, not worthy our worship? Dare we worship any but "God?" And if Christ is indeed "God," when isn’t He of the very same status, rank, authority, etc., as His Father? Good questions. Let’s take them one at a time.
Is Christ God? YES HE IS! <B>
"Yet to the Son </B>[this is GOD speaking]: ‘Thy throne, O GOD, is for the eon of the eon..." (Heb. 1:8).
And also:<B>
Who </B>[Jesus], being inherently in the form of God, deems it not pillaging [taking by force or plundering] to be EQUAL WITH GOD" (Phil. 2:6).
Is Christ worthy of worship? YES HE IS!
"And lo! A leper, coming to Him, WORSHIPED Him, saying..." (Mat. 8:2), "lo! One approaching Him [Jesus], a chief, WORSHIPED Him..." (Mat. 9:18), "Now those in the ship WORSHIP Him, saying, ‘truly, God’s Son art Thou!’" "Yet she, coming, WORSHIPS Him, saying, ‘Lord, help me!’" (Mat. 15:25).
So Christ is called "God," and did not consider it pillaging to be "equal" with God, and was often "worshiped." So surely, even if Christ is not the third person of a trinity, He must at least be the second person of a duet! SURELY, HE IS NOT! Let me explain.
Jesus IS God! True, but this fact does NOT make Him the FATHER! Let us always read and believe the Scriptures. The English word "God" is translated from the Greek word Theos which means PLACER or DISPOSER. ANYONE to whom the Father gives such an office of "placer or disposer" is a God!
The greek word rendered worship can also be rendered as 'bowed down before', 'did obesiance to' and 'paid homage to'. The same word is used when a person bows down before a king and when someone bows down before an image or a god. Therefore, the fact that Christ received such adulation is in no way evidence that he was God. He certainly was divine in nature and deserved to be treated as such. So worshipping him in that way would not be wrong.
Question: Who was God speaking to when He said,"Let Us mqke man in Our image, according to Our likeness," Genesis 1.26" ?
And why is it so hard to accept the "godhead" as being plural, i.e, God the Father, God the Son, and God the Holy Spirit ?
And why is such a big deal being made about calling the the three members of the divine nature the Trinity? All trinity means is...the state of being three. A family of three members could be called a 'trinity'.
I have been told that I am not a real christian because I don't hold to the belief that the Holy spirit and Jesus are God and that they are one being with three personalities doing three different jobs yet only one being..I find more scripture that says plain and simple that they are seperate..I believe God is pure light and love, Jesus is his son who was with him from somewhere in the infinite past..It is beyond our compehension to know if Jesus was created or if God just spoke the WORD and he came into being from the Father..I believe the Holy Spirit is exactly what Jesus said it is..A gift of comfort, guidance, teacher, convictor and our messenger between us and God The spirit was sent after Jesus no longer was on this earth..The Holy spirit is my connection to Jesus who goes to the Father in my behalf, because He (Jesus) said that no one comes to the father except through me..The Spirit is generous in giving gifts to each of us as he knows we can best use amongst our brothers and sisters to build our faith...IMO, God desires us to spend time allowing the Spirit to do the work within us so the light and love of God is shown through our witnessing and everything we do in this life to draw more to him because of love, not fear that they are not wise enough to know what the simple gospel teaches us..
The complicated theory of a trinity has seperated and caused such divisions between Gods children and has caused them to battle over verses, instead of establishing a relationship with God through the Spirit within us.. that they have forgotten the love and humbleness and the unity that Jesus gospel proclaimed..Instead of bringing others to Jesus and the Father, they battle each other because of their pride in themselves for their complicated interpretations of what He taught..
All the verses have been posted here..
My prayer is that Gods children would seek the wisdom and companionship and reliance on our precious gift of His Holy Spirit that He lovingly and willingly gives to us, but allows us to choose to use it or not..
Who created man? Did one being create man or did two beings create man? Since your rendering of Elohim means plural then that must mean that 2 people created man. According to you..it says... let US make man in OUR image. But I notice from your other post that you espouse the fundamentilist church doctrine...so I`m assuming you believe one man..Jesus... created everything. But then the scripture goes on to say HE created man in His image, in the image of God created He him...not they created man in their image. Elohim is used with singular pronouns in Genesis and other scripture as well. But even so, neither you or I or anyone else knows when God said this. In my opinion, he had already created Jesus and perhaps that is what it means. Jesus is the firstborn of all CREATION, that I do know because the scripture clearly says that. I also believe that Jesus is the person through whom God created everything..again because the bible clearly says so. I also know that Jesus is sitting at the right hand of someone and that someone is the Father because scripture clearly says so...he is not sitting at the right hand of himself. Jesus is also subject to someone and that someone is the Father...not himself. There are just way,way, way, way too many scripture that say there is one God almighty. You have to infer and spin scripture and say this means that and that means this to arrive at a trinity. I guess if you can spin something well enough and assume enough and read stuff into scripture you can make a case for a three in one God. The church certainly has enough people believing in it. But I prefer to stick to straight scripture and not the church`s version. I understand you disagree and I understand you are well indoctrinated in the church and it`s system. I also understand that I`m not changing your mind.. only God can do that. I`m just stating my belief and opinion.
Paul refers to Jesus as the firstborn over all creation, not the firstborn in creation and as such "He is before all things and in him all things hold together."
Ephraim, in the Old Testament, is referred to as the Lord's "firstborn" even though Manasseh was born first. In similar fashion David is appointed the Lord's "firstborn, the most exalted of the kings of the earth," and this is despite the fact that he's the youngest of Jesse's sons. Neither Ephraim nor David was the first one born in the family, but they were firstborn in the sense of preeminence or "prime position."
That verse has NOTHING to do with creation
There is no spin, "solas scriptura" study scripture using only scripture. We read the bible as it is and we see a plurality in the Godhead. I would love to believe in no Trinity, it would sure make my head hurt less but I don't see it. If no plurality then I say again, God is psyzo.
by the way you don't have to be a Christian to believe in the Trinity
Last edited by Fundamentalist; 10-21-2008 at 12:17 PM..
Question: Who was God speaking to when He said,"Let Us mqke man in Our image, according to Our likeness," Genesis 1.26" ?
And why is it so hard to accept the "godhead" as being plural, i.e, God the Father, God the Son, and God the Holy Spirit ?
And why is such a big deal being made about calling the the three members of the divine nature the Trinity? All trinity means is...the state of being three. A family of three members could be called a 'trinity'.
He was speaking to his son, thru which all things were created. Since Christ was the beginning of the creation by God, it stands to reason that he would have been present at this time. Also, the other heavenly creatures were likely in existence at that time.
The description of the Trinity, as it reads in the Catholic Encyclopedia is what many people have difficulty with since it claims that that three individuals are seperate AND one in a physical and spiritual sense. Since there is so much to contradict that idea in the scriptures (and this is the reason the doctrine was faught so diligently at the Council of Nicaea), many Christians reject it.
He was speaking to his son, thru which all things were created. Since Christ was the beginning of the creation by God, it stands to reason that he would have been present at this time. Also, the other heavenly creatures were likely in existence at that time.
We were even there! Some of our names were written in the lambs book of life from the foundation of the world.
And All the Sons of God shouted for joy, and the morning stars sang (daughters).
Quote:
The description of the Trinity, as it reads in the Catholic Encyclopedia is what many people have difficulty with since it claims that that three individuals are seperate AND one in a physical and spiritual sense. Since there is so much to contradict that idea in the scriptures (and this is the reason the doctrine was faught so diligently at the Council of Nicaea), many Christians reject it.
The author of the first English Translation was put to death because he disagreed with the Trinity as the council saw it. "Tynsdale"
by the way you don't have to be a Christian to believe in the Trinity
Hi, did you mean you don't have to believe in the Trinity to be a Christian? Maybe I misunderstood.
Quote:
Since there is so much to contradict that idea in the scriptures (and this is the reason the doctrine was faught so diligently at the Council of Nicaea), many Christians reject it.
Also many Jews have a problem with it, I think. God bless.
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