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Old 12-31-2008, 02:16 PM
 
Location: South Africa
5,563 posts, read 7,214,408 times
Reputation: 1798

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Quote:
Originally Posted by RobinD69 View Post
SeekerSA, I am going to try and explain this without offending or attacking. There are very few true Christian organizations out there. Most are liberal or secular, you have expressed your views are universal and they would fall into this grouping. Anyone who picks and chooses what to believe cannot honestly consider themselves a Christian.
This is very interesting. The last time I looked it said that to be a "christian" one had to believe in Jesus and nothing about picking and choosing. It is pointless me backing this with scripture so here is a factoid:

Did the early church even up to conservatively 1600 to as late as 1800 have a personal bible? Were all these folk literate?

No!

So bang goes your definition by cherry picking.

Quote:
By trying to force their views on the rest of Christianity they are creating more persicution.
Trying to force... is that not what you are trying to do here? Really you amaze me as you cannot even post a decent argument - this is called a word salad. This is a discussion board and futurists/dispensationalists are the youngest form of Christianity NOT the oldest. Even the Gnostics predate you folk, Universalism was taught in three of the four early schools. It is the church that made the man responsible for his own salvation by subjecting the salvation of Jesus FREELY GIVEN to be accepted/chosen by a fallible man with the fear of a false hell thrown in to coerce.

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Many televangelists like Benny Hinn are only in it for the money
And many other churches that demand tithes from their flock which is an OT requirement and especially required of farmers - bringing a tithe to the storehouse was grain and stuff NOT money.

Quote:
and make things difficult for real Christians and cause more persicution.
What is a real(tm) Christian please define by the bible?

Quote:
I DMed you to get a better understanding of your views because they sounded very gnostic. You said you leaned toward universalist and I could accept that because very often many do not understand what a universalist is and I figured you may have been leaning on the fence so to speak.
From what you post, you have no idea what a Universalist is either. I am almost certain you have no idea what Gnostics believed - there were sects there too you know - not all evil.

Quote:
I can tell you are a very intellegent person and you can quote the Bible, but your views contradict the Bible and seem more like someone who is persicuting than someone who wants to understand.
More word salad. But thank you for inferring that my intelligence denies me to call myself a true(tm) Christian and furthermore, how do I contradict the bible when I quote direct from the bible? And exactly how can I being in South Africa, be persecuting you? That is ridiculous and shows your immaturity in the Lord. I am not going door to door here to convert folk to my way of thinking. When you post here you are opening your views to critisizm/discussion, this is not a board founded with a statement of faith so sadly you will have to learn to suck it up when folk pose POV that differ from yours. You constanly stay in the judging and accusation mold in every response you make. Have I ever called anyone on this thread NOT a Christian? Go look!

No I have not. It is your ilk that do this no one else.

Look what you said earlier:
I can tell you are a very intellegent person and you can quote the Bible, but your views contradict the Bible and seem more like someone who is persicuting than someone who wants to understand
You are accusing me of stuff that you can only suck out of thin air.

Quote:
Your name indicates you are a seeker and yes I took it at face value and assumed perhaps you were seeking truth, but your mind is closed to the truth because of secular lies.
There you have done it again, thown me under the bus based on your assumptions/judgments (3 to be exact)

Quote:
I have seen this many times and I know several people who claim to be seeking the truth and all they are seeking is the distruction of the truth.
So based on previous non-related unsupported assumptions, you again judge me. And BTW what truth am I trying to destroy? How do you know what you have is truth? And you call me closed minded?

Quote:
I can understand that most of the examples of Christians you have are not very good examples. I can also understand that by reading false history you can come to some dramatic conclusions.
There is a saying, when in a hole stop digging. You really must be some guru to be able to make so many judgments about me based on dialogue in this thread for the first time.

Quote:
I ask you to open your mind and your heart andI am sure there are several very good Christians around here who would love to help you.
Well based on what you have just said, I do believe it is not I that has a closed mind. All you have done is taken your beliefs/truth/whatever and gone on the offensive by seeing that there are a few mismatches based on what I have offered.

You have forced me to to go back to where you entered the conversation.

I asked you one question and responded to one of your statements from here...
Quote:
Originally Posted by SeekerSA View Post
Such as? Remember if it is worse there must be a bench mark from which you measure it.
Did I judge/attack you or just challenge your talking points?

to here w/o any consternation and by this post I was not engaing you anymore as you were not really trying to answer the questions I posed and it was apparent or world views were far to diverse.

Then the crux post which you made your attack.
Quote:
Originally Posted by RobinD69 View Post
SeekerSA, I now see that you are not a Christian(1) and have no desire to be one,(2) you are merely a disgruntled Gentile(3) who wants to argue for the purpose of arguing(4). No amout of evidence or facts could diswade you from your view because you are not here to seek but destroy(5). You have not been honest in your claims(6) and do not seem to be interested in even looking at the evidence of other and only seek to proclaim the party line of liberals(7).

I ask to please take an honest look at the links I have provided to you no matter what you may think of them. We are not here to spread fear but peace and only someone with hate in their heart will see it as fear. If you will look in the Bible for sayings such as "caught up" this is translated Rapture and has been there since the time of Christ and even in the OT much longer. Look at Elijah and I believe Enosh neither man knew death but were Raptured.
Seven (perfect number) judgments in your opening paragraph and then you ask me to consider your POV, you never considered mine.

Way to go Robin.

They say if you cannot take the heat, stay out of the kitchen.

Happy new year for 2009 till 2038 (campbells prediction)
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Old 12-31-2008, 02:56 PM
 
Location: SC Foothills
8,831 posts, read 11,623,201 times
Reputation: 58253
Well.....excellent posts Robin. Personally, as the Bible says, "I find no fault in this man". (Luke 23:4)

You did nothing wrong and you said nothing wrong, Robin, in posts or dm's. The truth always stings and some just can't handle it without making a poor attempt at stinging back (which looks and sounds pathetic).

I think it is absolutely appalling that someone would post private messages on the public board. Now THAT is underhanded, and really LOW.
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Old 12-31-2008, 03:29 PM
 
Location: Gaston, North Carolina
4,213 posts, read 5,835,697 times
Reputation: 634
Quote:
Originally Posted by SeekerSA View Post
This is very interesting. The last time I looked it said that to be a "christian" one had to believe in Jesus and nothing about picking and choosing. It is pointless me backing this with scripture so here is a factoid:
But believing in a false view of Jesus is not really believing in Jesus.

Quote:
Did the early church even up to conservatively 1600 to as late as 1800 have a personal bible? Were all these folk literate?
There were home Churches from the beginning and many were more literate than admitted to. Look at your judgement of the early disciples all being illiterate when in fact they were business owners, Pharasees, scribes, doctors and the same can be said for the rest of those thru out history. Just because a popular belief thingks they have a stranglhold does not mean they do.

Quote:
Trying to force... is that not what you are trying to do here? Really you amaze me as you cannot even post a decent argument - this is called a word salad. This is a discussion board and futurists/dispensationalists are the youngest form of Christianity NOT the oldest. Even the Gnostics predate you folk, Universalism was taught in three of the four early schools. It is the church that made the man responsible for his own salvation by subjecting the salvation of Jesus FREELY GIVEN to be accepted/chosen by a fallible man with the fear of a false hell thrown in to coerce.
Nope, merely trying to grt you to think. Actually futurists and dispensationalists have been around all along, just not in the numbers you would expect or in powerful possitions. Gnostics actually predate Jesus birth by about 500 years, they were a real thorn in the side of the scattered Jews. Gnosticism and Universalism were preached against by the Apostles. Jesus gave you a choice, accept or not, so fallable man did not start this Christ did. Even Jesus said there was a hell, are you calling Him a liar?

Quote:
And many other churches that demand tithes from their flock which is an OT requirement and especially required of farmers - bringing a tithe to the storehouse was grain and stuff NOT money.
Read about the Church of acts, it wasnt required it was given out of love so that all could live and learn.

Quote:
What is a real(tm) Christian please define by the bible?
Someone who accepts the truth of the Gospel. Jesus is the Gospel and all He teaches is truth. This is why I suggested reading the red letters of the Bible so you could see the true Gospel instead of the watered down version.

Quote:
From what you post, you have no idea what a Universalist is either. I am almost certain you have no idea what Gnostics believed - there were sects there too you know - not all evil.
Any Gospel preached other than the Gospel of truth is evil.

Quote:
More word salad. But thank you for inferring that my intelligence denies me to call myself a true(tm) Christian and furthermore, how do I contradict the bible when I quote direct from the bible? And exactly how can I being in South Africa, be persecuting you? That is ridiculous and shows your immaturity in the Lord. I am not going door to door here to convert folk to my way of thinking. When you post here you are opening your views to critisizm/discussion, this is not a board founded with a statement of faith so sadly you will have to learn to suck it up when folk pose POV that differ from yours. You constanly stay in the judging and accusation mold in every response you make. Have I ever called anyone on this thread NOT a Christian? Go look!
If you look in the Bible you will see Christ says the same thing about those who think the have knowledge of truth, they lie to themselves. You contradict the Bible by ignoring the context for what makes you feel good, you know the tickling of your ear by false teachers. Your contribution to the persicution of all Christians is you adherance and promotion of a false Gospel. I have not judged, I have observed. Whether you have called anyone a non Christian or not is irrelevant, you are still promoting a false gospel.



Quote:
Look what you said earlier:
I can tell you are a very intellegent person and you can quote the Bible, but your views contradict the Bible and seem more like someone who is persicuting than someone who wants to understand
You are accusing me of stuff that you can only suck out of thin air.
Have you provided context for your quotes or do you just pick what you like and leave out the context?

Quote:
There you have done it again, thown me under the bus based on your assumptions/judgments (3 to be exact)
If that is how you see it, fine. Remember you are the one who admitted you base your knowledge on a secular perspective.

Quote:
So based on previous non-related unsupported assumptions, you again judge me. And BTW what truth am I trying to destroy? How do you know what you have is truth? And you call me closed minded?
I have deakt wuth views very similar to your before.

Quote:
There is a saying, when in a hole stop digging. You really must be some guru to be able to make so many judgments about me based on dialogue in this thread for the first time.
Observations.

Quote:
Well based on what you have just said, I do believe it is not I that has a closed mind. All you have done is taken your beliefs/truth/whatever and gone on the offensive by seeing that there are a few mismatches based on what I have offered.
I have merely observed and responded in like.

Quote:
You have forced me to to go back to where you entered the conversation.

I asked you one question and responded to one of your statements from here...

Remember if it is worse there must be a benchmark from which you measure it.
1948.
Quote:
Did I judge/attack you or just challenge your talking points?
Well based on your definition of judging and attacking i would say you have done both.

Quote:
to here w/o any consternation and by this post I was not engaing you anymore as you were not really trying to answer the questions I posed and it was apparent or world views were far to diverse.
Yes they are, yours is secular.

Quote:
Then the crux post which you made your attack.

Seven (perfect number) judgments in your opening paragraph and then you ask me to consider your POV, you never considered mine.
You really need to reread them because they were even toned observations.Here I will share;

SeekerSA, I now see that you are not a Christian(1) and have no desire to be one,(2) you are merely a disgruntled Gentile(3) who wants to argue for the purpose of arguing(4). No amout of evidence or facts could diswade you from your view because you are not here to seek but destroy(5). You have not been honest in your claims(6) and do not seem to be interested in even looking at the evidence of other and only seek to proclaim the party line of liberals(7).




Quote:
They say if you cannot take the heat, stay out of the kitchen.

Happy new year for 2009 till 2038 (campbells prediction)
Nice quote and Happy New Year to as well so long as they last.
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Old 12-31-2008, 03:33 PM
 
Location: Gaston, North Carolina
4,213 posts, read 5,835,697 times
Reputation: 634
Quote:
Originally Posted by DayoftheLord View Post
Well.....excellent posts Robin. Personally, as the Bible says, "I find no fault in this man". (Luke 23:4)

You did nothing wrong and you said nothing wrong, Robin, in posts or dm's. The truth always stings and some just can't handle it without making a poor attempt at stinging back (which looks and sounds pathetic).

I think it is absolutely appalling that someone would post private messages on the public board. Now THAT is underhanded, and really LOW.
I thank you, but I do believe instead of the back and forth debate that is going on maybe we should ask SeekerSA to share with us what his views really are.

What do you say SeekerSA, lets end the fighting and discuss your views, you have already seen mine and proclaimed you distaste. You present your views and I will address them without judgement merely observations.
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Old 12-31-2008, 05:46 PM
 
63,809 posts, read 40,087,129 times
Reputation: 7871
Quote:
Originally Posted by DayoftheLord View Post
Well.....excellent posts Robin. Personally, as the Bible says, "I find no fault in this man". (Luke 23:4)
Well I certainly can find fault . . . he judged SeekerSA as NOT a Christian, a liar, a destroyer,etc. . . . You judgmental types need to get off your self-righteous horses and at least pretend to be as humble Jesus.

"I now see that you are not a Christian(1) and have no desire to be one,(2) you are merely a disgruntled Gentile(3) who wants to argue for the purpose of arguing(4). No amout of evidence or facts could diswade you from your view because you are not here to seek but destroy(5). You have not been honest in your claims(6) and do not seem to be interested in even looking at the evidence of other and only seek to proclaim the party line of liberals(7).
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Old 12-31-2008, 05:46 PM
 
Location: Oxford, OH
1,461 posts, read 3,652,487 times
Reputation: 835
Wow I just read through the last nine or ten pages since I posted....would wear a soul out You know as we get older, I'm in that group, you realize that no one has all the answers.

I taught Bible Literature in the high school, well that should give away my age..LOL, until of course they decided that was not politically correct. One of the things we talked about is that your beliefs are a culmination of your upbringing, reading the Bible, books you read, people you have listened to and hopefully the Holy Spirit teaching you as a child of God.

We read, study and contimplate but it is very difficult to sort all of this out. Maybe I think simply but I believe that God has the plan all worked out and His plan is perfect, complete and will be worked out at his pleasure in his own timing. I did some seminary work and I certainly have my opinions but they are what I believe with my limited knowledge.

I'm not really called to figure it all out and spent my time in debates. I'm called to share God's love, salvation, grace, through his son, Jesus Christ. I'm to be salt and light in this world. I'm called to love others. If we are in the end times than I should be telling everyone about how they can be saved....
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Old 12-31-2008, 05:57 PM
 
Location: NC
14,882 posts, read 17,160,264 times
Reputation: 1527
Quote:
Gnosticism and Universalism were preached against by the Apostles.
Not Chrisian Universalism, RobinD69. The apostle Paul spoke about this. Many of the early leaders in the church and many early Christians had these beliefs. The beliefs are found in the scriptures. Back to the topic God bless.
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Old 12-31-2008, 06:35 PM
 
Location: SC Foothills
8,831 posts, read 11,623,201 times
Reputation: 58253
Quote:
Originally Posted by MysticPhD View Post
Well I certainly can find fault . . . he judged SeekerSA as NOT a Christian, a liar, a destroyer,etc. . . . You judgmental types need to get off your self-righteous horses and at least pretend to be as humble Jesus.

"I now see that you are not a Christian(1) and have no desire to be one,(2) you are merely a disgruntled Gentile(3) who wants to argue for the purpose of arguing(4). No amout of evidence or facts could diswade you from your view because you are not here to seek but destroy(5). You have not been honest in your claims(6) and do not seem to be interested in even looking at the evidence of other and only seek to proclaim the party line of liberals(7).
The only way this would offend someone else that it was not directed at would be someone who was guilty of the same truth.
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Old 12-31-2008, 06:53 PM
 
Location: Gaston, North Carolina
4,213 posts, read 5,835,697 times
Reputation: 634
Quote:
Originally Posted by ShanaBrown View Post
Not Chrisian Universalism, RobinD69. The apostle Paul spoke about this. Many of the early leaders in the church and many early Christians had these beliefs. The beliefs are found in the scriptures. Back to the topic God bless.
Please share.
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Old 12-31-2008, 07:05 PM
 
Location: NC
14,882 posts, read 17,160,264 times
Reputation: 1527
I will on another thread, RobinD69. Thanks and God bless.
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