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Old 12-31-2008, 09:45 PM
 
Location: Gaston, North Carolina
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The sooner the head leaves the shoulders the sooner I am with Christ. Problem is I do have the bad habit of fighting back.
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Old 12-31-2008, 11:58 PM
 
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Quote:
Originally Posted by DayoftheLord View Post
Well.....excellent posts Robin. Personally, as the Bible says, "I find no fault in this man". (Luke 23:4)
Well I certainly can find fault . . . he judged SeekerSA as NOT a Christian, a liar, a destroyer,etc. . . . ALL you judgmental types need to get off your self-righteous horses and at least pretend to be as humble Jesus. There is no conceivable way you can know YOUR version of the truth is the right one . . . I believe you are all in for a rude awakening when you die. Usurping the judgmental role is ultimate arrogance.. . Christ decides who is a Christian . . . not you, or Robin, or Fundy or anyone else. There is no love in such arrogance.

"I now see that you are not a Christian(1) and have no desire to be one,(2) you are merely a disgruntled Gentile(3) who wants to argue for the purpose of arguing(4). No amout of evidence or facts could diswade you from your view because you are not here to seek but destroy(5). You have not been honest in your claims(6) and do not seem to be interested in even looking at the evidence of other and only seek to proclaim the party line of liberals(7).
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Old 01-01-2009, 01:56 AM
 
Location: South Africa
5,563 posts, read 7,215,344 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by DayoftheLord View Post
Well.....excellent posts Robin. Personally, as the Bible says, "I find no fault in this man". (Luke 23:4)
Of course you don't does not surprise me as your beliefs happen to be identical - still says nothing

[quote]You did nothing wrong and you said nothing wrong, Robin, in posts or dm's. The truth always stings and some just can't handle it without making a poor attempt at stinging back (which looks and sounds pathetic).[quote]

Uhm no, I am past being offended by petty attacks but when one goes and enquirers in private then comes out in condemnation I will reveal that which led to it.

Quote:
I think it is absolutely appalling that someone would post private messages on the public board. Now THAT is underhanded, and really LOW.
Really so you like secrecy? Why was that DM not posed in the forum, I have never hidden my beliefs
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Old 01-01-2009, 03:21 AM
 
Location: South Africa
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Quote:
Originally Posted by RobinD69 View Post
But believing in a false view of Jesus is not really believing in Jesus.
Only false in your worldview. You do not represent all Christians neither do I
Quote:
There were home Churches from the beginning and many were more literate than admitted to. Look at your judgement of the early disciples all being illiterate when in fact they were business owners, Pharasees, scribes, doctors and the same can be said for the rest of those thru out history. Just because a popular belief thingks they have a stranglhold does not mean they do.
You keep making assertions where there are none, where did I say that the disciples or early apostles were illiterate?
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Nope, merely trying to grt you to think. Actually futurists and dispensationalists have been around all along, just not in the numbers you would expect or in powerful possitions.
We will have to disagree here as no evidence is forthcoming.
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Gnostics actually predate Jesus birth by about 500 years, they were a real thorn in the side of the scattered Jews.
I know the gnostics predate Jesus, that was one sect, there is a another sect that recognized Jesus
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Gnosticism and Universalism were preached against by the Apostles.
Prove it.
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Jesus gave you a choice, accept or not, so fallable man did not start this Christ did. Even Jesus said there was a hell, are you calling Him a liar?
Choice is your premise and interpretation thus you are Armenian in you thinking aka free-will still makes your POV make man's "choice" greater than God's will.
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Read about the Church of acts, it wasnt required it was given out of love so that all could live and learn.
Agreed but it was distributed each according to their needs, I do know the NT early church history. What you have today is folk that support a leader in a church and hang on his/her every word and it is about the the church and buildings and youth programs etc. aka a christian country club. BTW I was P&W leader and served on the financial committee so do not think I am disgruntled because of being a pew warmer.
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Someone who accepts the truth of the Gospel. Jesus is the Gospel and all He teaches is truth. This is why I suggested reading the red letters of the Bible so you could see the true Gospel instead of the watered down version.
So if my bible has no red letters it is not the real(tm) bible. Hmm let me see how many bibles I have...36 translations and yes some have red letters. You prove and say nothing of substance.
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Any Gospel preached other than the Gospel of truth is evil.
Agreed but truth is subjective.
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If you look in the Bible you will see Christ says the same thing about those who think the have knowledge of truth, they lie to themselves.
Yup, that was the religious of His day and very similar to the sheeple of the church today.
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You contradict the Bible by ignoring the context for what makes you feel good, you know the tickling of your ear by false teachers.
I do not follow any teachers - I read many opinions and they are from all over the world. See I knew the garbage my church was dishing out could not be truth so I went into a personal mission of finding out for myself. When someone said to me "stay away from that", I went their to determine for myself. All I found is that no one has the full truth, we take that which our spirit witnesses with and has nothing to do with "feel good"
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Your contribution to the persicution of all Christians is you adherance and promotion of a false Gospel.
Please how am I persecuting you - this is getting ridiculous
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I have not judged, I have observed. Whether you have called anyone a non Christian or not is irrelevant, you are still promoting a false gospel.
No it is not irrelevant and yes you did judge - you have placed me in a box of what you think I believe and now you have judged me to be spreading a false gospel. I ask questions you folk cannot answer so where am I postulizing? - show me.

See this tread is about rumours of war and supposed end time signs which I challenged yet what are we discussing now? It is the ad homenum attack that you guys do, attack the poster when you cannot answer. Surely you know you should be ready in season and out of season to defend, if you have no answers then you are a mere sheeple and have not studied anything - the only opinion you have voiced this entire diatribe is your opinion of me not the OP.
Quote:
Have you provided context for your quotes or do you just pick what you like and leave out the context?
Strawman - you can click on that li'l blue arrow in the quote that will take you back and back and back to get the context. That is what I do when I respond. I open another tab and make sure I stay in context.
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If that is how you see it, fine. Remember you are the one who admitted you base your knowledge on a secular perspective.
Not what I said

You said:
Knowledge does not make one a Christian, relationship does. If you have been a believer so long then why do you let secular opinions spoil Biblical truth.
I said:
Just a last note of the secular issues, you folk do tend to try match current secular events to biblical "prophesy" which is what this thread is about.
However I will say this - I do have a more secular world view compared to you and that is because of where I am located and brought up and educated as I have mentioned in this thread. Creationism was not taught when I was at school, there was a separation of religion and education which appears the USA has not yet achieved.

Also we were taught history and geography from around the globe including the USA, UK, Russia, Europe, Middle East, not much on China, India and of course Africa. I studied this until Grade 9 when I dropped both subject to focus on maths and science subjects.

We learned of the world at large NOT just our region. We were not really taught evolution either but may have been a part of biology IF you took that subject. The biology we did before we could drop it never covered origins.

So either way, I graduated from high school not influenced one way or the other. So if I mentioned my worldview is secular, it is from that perspective alone.
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I have deakt wuth views very similar to your before.
But it appears you are judgmental and have not really tried to understand other folk
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Observations.
Judgment
-snip-
Quote:
1948.
OK how old are you - I am 50 so I was born 1958; 10 years after - you still have not provided examples apart from the gangs in the USA at schools which we DO NOT have at our schools which are fully integrated BTW - what it is that has deteriorated since the "benchmark" of 1948 you claim. For you to have noticed any changes since 1948 you would likely need to be at least 80 which would have put you in your twenties in 1948 - an age when you start looking at or taking interest in world events.

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Well based on your definition of judging and attacking i would say you have done both.
Nope - I am pointing out your piousness - and that is my 1st judgment here.
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Yes they are, yours is secular.
IYO only, you are defending strawmen that you created.
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You really need to reread them because they were even toned observations.Here I will share;
Like I said I re-read all the posts and no they were not toned observations. When you accuse me of NOT being a Christian that is judgment - what you do is not even a berean approach.
Quote:
SeekerSA, I now see that you are not a Christian(1) and have no desire to be one,(2) you are merely a disgruntled Gentile(3) who wants to argue for the purpose of arguing(4). No amout of evidence or facts could diswade you from your view because you are not here to seek but destroy(5). You have not been honest in your claims(6) and do not seem to be interested in even looking at the evidence of other and only seek to proclaim the party line of liberals(7).
Kinda smacks in your face don''t ya think?
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Nice quote and Happy New Year to as well so long as they last.
Well I will be long dead and pushing up daisies and there still will be no rapture. Maybe in my lifetime I may see a thermonuclear global war, unfortunately, where I stay we will die as a result of a war waged between non enemies of ours. I do not fear death, it is my children's future I am concerned about.

Just FYI I grew up in a home based aka cell type church who never taught rapture and they are international albeit small.
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Old 01-01-2009, 03:26 AM
 
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[quote=DayoftheLord;6783745]
Quote:


Demand..maybe not, but that was your argument.



Yes, but like Robin and Fundie pointed out, there was way more to Jesus than that, so we have way more to do than just thinking and living like Him, and loving Him. It includes the really tough chores of chiding our best friends and family, closest associates and even strangers to think, live and love like Christ. And I expect the same of anyone else when I have a plank. And the all important great commission of spreading the gospel and willing to be persecuted for it. We all have different roles, but don't think that the silent peacemakers are any more important to the kingdom of God than someone like me.

I have always been extremely forthcoming with my own faults and shortcomings, and very apologetic for my actions and reactions when warranted on this board. I am NOT a hypocrite, and I am not responsible for others who are hypocrites.

I consider myself in as close of a position as I can possibly get to being like Christ (without being perfect) to be able to point out others specks, and what will possibly keep them out of God's Kingdom. That's pretty darn important imo, and I don't care whether you or anyone else thinks I have the right to do that or not. According to the Bible I do, as long as I recognize my own faults and try my dead level best to correct them and keep them in check and not chide someone else about something when I'm doing it myself.



The actual words don't have to be spoken, it's implied. Oh, and sorry.....I thought you were a woman. I think I called you "she" previously.



dunno, could be.....I'm here and I'm "like Jesus".



Nope, only if I actually WAS Jesus. No one can call me a hypocrite in spite of that.



Easy to say?? Yes. And I can easily say that my head will be the first one on the chopping block. Once again, I only speak for myself and my own faith.
Quote:
It includes the really tough chores of chiding our best friends and family, closest associates and even strangers to think, live and love like Christ.
Hmm, ok. Sounds a lot like "recruiting" to me. If you are the example of Christ, since you claim to be the closest thing to Christ
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I consider myself in as close of a position as I can possibly get to being like Christ (without being perfect)
, then by your actions and by your love people would gravitate towards you wanting this same relationship as you do. The second you "chide" them for faults they commit, then you have claimed a power over them no different than most governmental or religious entities do. God transforms hearts, not people.

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and what will possibly keep them out of God's Kingdom.
Loving the world enough to die for it, as you say you would do, is proof enough for most anyone. But then again, is this going to be a peaceful surrender of life, or will you be taking out as many "infidels" as you can on the way out. There are extremists in every religion, who feel they are martyring themselves for God, but have prostituted the Word to give credence to this action. Jesus said blessed are the peacemakers...

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According to the Bible I do, as long as I recognize my own faults and try my dead level best to correct them and keep them in check and not chide someone else about something when I'm doing it myself.
Show me the verses please to this. My Bible says that if you break any of the laws you break them ALL. So how does one judge anothers fault when they have faults..

You can't, for example, "chide" another man for looking lustfully at a woman, while secretly coveting your neighbors family.

The only places in the Bible where I see it ok to "judge" the actions of someone, is if they are claiming fellowship with brothers and sisters in Christ, while openly sinning, creating a bad lump or bad apple. Since you don't want the entire lump bad, or the bucket by one bad apple, you ask them to repent or to leave. That is it. Otherwise,


The Line is in the sand______________________________________________ ____
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Old 01-01-2009, 03:27 AM
 
Location: South Africa
5,563 posts, read 7,215,344 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Fundamentalist View Post
By your definition, Paul, Peter and the rest were judgmental as well; you yourself are judging Robin and DOTL by calling them self righteous and finding fault in them. Jesus was humble for a reason but not the ones you believe. We have the Holy Spirit and the full revelation of the Old and New Testament. No excuses.--snip--
No I am not judgmental, but if you see it that way it is OK as the word says judge not lest ye be judged - in the same way you measure it out.....

Your claim to the HS does not preclude me from having the HS either - did you consider that?

Yes Jesus was humble and that is what is missing here.

Joh 3:16 For God so loved the world that He gave His only begotten Son, that whoever believes in Him should not perish but have everlasting life.
Joh 3:17 For God did not send His Son into the world to condemn the world, but that the world through Him might be saved.

You folk never go past verse 16, read 17, it is the closer.

And look at what Jesus did with the adulterous woman, did He judge her? No. All that comes out here is condemnation.

I wanted to challenge the eschatology here, what are we discussing now?
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Old 01-01-2009, 03:43 AM
 
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Originally Posted by SeekerSA View Post
No I am not judgmental, but if you see it that way it is OK as the word says judge not lest ye be judged - in the same way you measure it out.....

Your claim to the HS does not preclude me from having the HS either - did you consider that?

Yes Jesus was humble and that is what is missing here.

Joh 3:16 For God so loved the world that He gave His only begotten Son, that whoever believes in Him should not perish but have everlasting life.
Joh 3:17 For God did not send His Son into the world to condemn the world, but that the world through Him might be saved.

You folk never go past verse 16, read 17, it is the closer.

And look at what Jesus did with the adulterous woman, did He judge her? No. All that comes out here is condemnation.

I wanted to challenge the eschatology here, what are we discussing now?
Amen! It is almost like if we don't follow blindly these leaders of this day, we are not Christians, therefore unable to comment on the misrepresentation of what certain verses are, or even use the Spirit to discern them.

Kinda like being shunned for having an opinion, or even an insight, outside of the mainstream theologies on the "end times". But we have to keep going, right seeker? People need to wake up, pray up, and seek up, in order for their eyes to shed the scales....

Last edited by HotinAZ; 01-01-2009 at 04:04 AM..
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Old 01-01-2009, 03:59 AM
 
Location: South Africa
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Originally Posted by RobinD69 View Post
Jesus was judgemental by the common use of the term "Go and sin no more" Oh my goodness he accused someone of sin.
Joh 8:10 And bending back up, and seeing no one but the woman, Jesus said to her, Woman, where are the ones who accused you? Did not one give judgment against you?
Joh 8:11 And she said, No one, Lord. And Jesus said to her, Neither do I give judgment. Go, and sin no more.
You did mention context - is important
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"You brood of vipers" and name calling as well. "If you love me keep my commandments" sounds pretty demanding as well.
Nope. Matt 23 was directed to the religious pious of the day - let us see.

For context:
Mat 23:1 Then Jesus spoke to the crowd and to His disciples,
Mat 23:2 saying, The scribes and the Pharisees sit in Moses' seat.
Mat 23:3 Therefore whatever they tell you to observe, observe and do. But do not do according to their works; for they say, and do not do.
Mat 23:4 For they bind heavy and hard-to-carry burdens and lay them on men's shoulders. But they will not move them with one of their fingers.
Mat 23:5 But they do all their works in order to be seen of men. They make their phylacteries broad and enlarge the borders of their garments.
Mat 23:6 And they love the first couch at feasts, and the chief seats in the synagogues,
Mat 23:7 and greetings in the market-places, and to be called, Rabbi! Rabbi! by men.
Mat 23:8 But you must not be called Rabbi, for One is your teacher, Christ, and you are all brothers.
Mat 23:9 And call no one your father on the earth, for One is your Father in Heaven.
Mat 23:10 Nor be called teachers, for One is your Teacher, even Christ.
Mat 23:11 But he who is greatest among you shall be your servant.
Mat 23:12 And whoever shall exalt himself shall be abased, and he who shall humble himself shall be exalted.
Here is the clincher:
Mat 23:13 But woe to you, scribes and Pharisees, hypocrites! For you shut up the kingdom of Heaven against men. For you neither go in, nor do you allow those entering to go in.
Mat 23:14 Woe to you, scribes and Pharisees, hypocrites! For you devour widows' houses, and pray at length as a pretense. Therefore you shall receive the greater condemnation.
Mat 23:15 Woe to you, scribes and Pharisees, hypocrites! For you compass sea and the dry land to make one proselyte, and when he is made, you make him twofold more the child of hell than yourselves.
Mat 23:16 Woe to you, blind guides, saying, Whoever shall swear by the temple, it is nothing; but whoever shall swear by the gold of the temple, he is a debtor.
Mat 23:17 Fools and blind! For which is greater, the gold, or the temple that sanctifies the gold?
Mat 23:18 And, Whoever shall swear by the altar, it is nothing; but whoever swears by the gift that is on it, he is a debtor!
Mat 23:19 Fools and blind! For which is greater, the gift, or the altar that sanctifies the gift?
Mat 23:20 Therefore whoever shall swear by the altar swears by it, and by all things on it.
Mat 23:21 And whoever shall swear by the temple, swears by it and by Him who dwells in it.
Mat 23:22 And he who shall swear by Heaven swears by the throne of God, and by Him who sits on it.
Mat 23:23 Woe to you, scribes and Pharisees, hypocrites! For you pay tithes of mint and dill and cummin, and you have left undone the weightier matters of the Law, judgment, mercy, and faith. You ought to have done these and not to leave the other undone.
Mat 23:24 Blind guides who strain out a gnat and swallow a camel!
Mat 23:25 Woe to you, scribes and Pharisees, hypocrites! For you cleanse the outside of the cup and of the dish, but inside they are full of extortion and excess.
Mat 23:26 Blind Pharisee! First cleanse the inside of the cup and of the dish, so that the outside of them may be clean also.
Mat 23:27 Woe to you, scribes and Pharisees, hypocrites! For you are like whitewashed tombs, which indeed appear beautiful outside, but inside they are full of dead men's bones, and of all uncleanness.
Mat 23:28 Even so you also appear righteous to men outwardly, but inside you are full of hypocrisy and iniquity.
Mat 23:29 Woe to you, scribes and Pharisees, hypocrites! Because you build the tombs of the prophets, and decorate the tombs of the righteous,
Mat 23:30 and say, If we had been in the days of our fathers, we would not have been partakers with them in the blood of the prophets.
Mat 23:31 Therefore you are witnesses to yourselves, that you are the sons of those who killed the prophets;
Mat 23:32 and you fill up the measure of your fathers.
Mat 23:33 Serpents! Offspring of vipers! How can you escape the condemnation of gehenna?
Yes he was talking definitely to unbelievers - NOT. This was to the religious pious of His day and that message is very very relevant today.

Quote:
"Get thee behind me Satan" threatening? Can we please have a round of applause for Jesus because all He is about is love, tough love.
Yup Peter was satan in the flesh suddenly. Hmm I think not.
Mat 16:16 And Simon Peter answered and said, You are the Christ, the Son of the living God.
Mat 16:17 Jesus answered and said to him, You are blessed, Simon, son of Jonah, for flesh and blood did not reveal it to you, but My Father in Heaven.
Mat 16:18 And I also say to you that you are Peter, and on this rock I will build My church, and the gates of hell shall not prevail against it.
What was the rock? RCC say it is Peter, the evangelicals say it is Jesus. It is neither.

It was the revelation that Peter had - the Ah-ha moment if you will of:
for flesh and blood did not reveal it to you, but My Father in Heaven.
It is this revelation direct from above that is the clincher on which the church is built NOT Peter, not Jesus (directly anyway). The revelation is of course who the Christ is. Jesus and Christ are not interchangeable words - look it up. I know folk do it out of habit. If you learn to separate the two, scripture takes on a whole new meaning - hint - body of Christ not Jesus THE Christ.

Question: Was Peter filled with the HS like at Pentecost when this took place? Nope.

This is the same as the proclamations some heard, "This is my Son... hear Him..." and others rumblings - hint here.
Mat 16:22 Then Peter took Him and began to rebuke Him, saying, God be gracious to You, Lord! This shall never be to You.
Mat 16:23 But He turned and said to Peter, Go, Satan! You are an offense to Me, for you do not savor the things that are of God, but those that are of men.
Why did Peter digress to challenging Jesus? After all he just had an epiphany just a few verses back. Peter says here "God be gracious to You, Lord!" He obviously did not really comprehend what had happened and only after much denial and "do you love me's" and correction many times by Paul did he finally get it. BTW I believe that Peter was a Pharisee but that is another topic.

So claiming HS means nada unless the revelation comes from above and not some voice in your head you think is the HS.
Heb 5:12 For indeed because of the time, you ought to be teachers, you have need that one teach you again what are the first principles of the oracles of God. And you have become in need of milk, and not of solid food.
Heb 5:13 For everyone partaking of milk is unskillful in the Word of Righteousness, for he is an infant.
Heb 5:14 But solid food belongs to those who are of full age, even those who because of use have their senses exercised to discern both good and evil.
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Old 01-01-2009, 04:00 AM
 
Location: South Africa
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Originally Posted by Fundamentalist View Post
We know the truth that Jesus IS THE ONLY WAY. Is there another I am not aware of? I thought we were to be just like Jesus, if He judged then can not we?
No!
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Old 01-01-2009, 04:51 AM
 
Location: South Africa
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Originally Posted by RobinD69 View Post
If I saw you caught up in sin, say pornography, and I wanted to help you out of it I would share my struggle with you so perhaps we could help each other. I am willing to admit to my sins publically to help another. Here try this, I stuggle with porn, lust, anger, greed, foul language and hatred. This does not mean I always give into these temptations and sin, but these are my struggles and the list used to be much longer. Are you willing to share your sins or temptations to help another?
What you have here is a sin list based on what exactly? I ask this not to condone anything but to point out something I call projection.

Not focusing on you, let us say someone has similar "weaknesses" - if we acknowledge we are weak, why are we condemned?

This is the problem IMO of twisting to place people in bondage. Who the Son sets free is free indeed.

What does that mean?

Is it some supernatural deliverance? No!

You need to go back to Adam and Eve and Cain to see a new perspective of Father's heart. I have posted that here before but folk seem to not get it. In summary.

Adam and Eve partake of an unknown forbidden fruit, not an apple, and their eyes are opened. They make aprons of leaves (hint - tree of life, healing of the nations in Revelation) and they hide.

Father comes and asks Adam where are you. Adam confesses and apportions blame (hint here) and Eve does the same and of course we know the serpent had no leg to stand on. The serpent was not literal either. Not to digress too much, the Father is more upset in that they hid it and tried to take it into their own hands. Who told you you were naked, did you eat (read:dwell on) of the tree I forbade? No condemnation.

Of course they are kicked out and man have I seen some weird spins concerning the childbirth bits - but they were banished to go and till the land and do what they were supposed to do, procreate and take dominion. In the garden they were in a nursery. The tree of KoG&E was there for a reason and not as a temptation - it was their destiny to partake. Here the spin goes to condemn the entire human race based upon a false interpretation in that we a born of sin blah blah and only Jesus takes this away - aka rebirth.

FF to Cain after killing Abel. The Father comes to Cain and asks him after the rebuttal of Cain that was he his brother's keeper.

Need to context this
Gen 4:6 And Jehovah said to Cain, Why have you angrily glowed? And why did your face fall?
Gen 4:7 If you do well, shall you not be accepted? And if you do not do well, sin crouches at the door; and its desire is for you, and you shall rule over it.
The bolded part talks of taking matters into your own hands and was a warning to Cain, he had not sinned yet.
Gen 4:10 And He said, What have you done? The voice of your brother's blood cries to Me from the ground.
Gen 4:11 And now you are cursed more than the ground which opened its mouth to receive your brother's blood from your hand.
Did God curse Cain? Remember Cain had buried his brother's body, some scholars say they fought and the death was accidental but that is conjecture. All we know is that Cain killed Able .
Gen 4:12 When you till the ground, it will not again give its strength to you. And you shall be a vagabond and a fugitive in the earth.
Is this a judgment? No.
Gen 4:13 And Cain said to Jehovah, My punishment is greater than I can bear.
Gen 4:14 Behold! You have driven me out from the face of the earth today, and I shall be hidden from Your face. And I shall be a fugitive and a vagabond in the earth, and it shall be that anyone who finds me shall kill me.
Here Cain curses himself but what does the Father do?
Gen 4:15 And Jehovah said to him, Therefore whoever kills Cain shall be avenged seven times. And Jehovah set a mark upon Cain so that anyone who found him should not kill him.
Seems the disciples had something of forgiving seven times seeing here the Father warns of a judgment seven times worse for anyone who tried to kill him or avenge Abel's death.

This is the very short version.

In essence, the death of Abel, assuming it was premeditated
Gen 4:8 And Cain talked with his brother Abel. And it happened when they were in the field, Cain rose up against his brother Abel and killed him.
according to later laws, he was guilty and was deserving of his punishment.

When you look at the eating of the fruit as "dwelling on" the warning of sin crouching at the door with a will to rule over it, it warns us of not dwelling on the GUILT of our "sins"

If you get this message twisted to show God as vengeful, you will read all the rest with that bias. I do not see Him as either vengeful nor judgmental.

Even in the NT, the folk got it wrong with the confession in the way it was translated. The sin is taken care of, you cannot unring a bell, if Cain was a murderer and was let off by Father, how is it we judge murder as immoral and justify other killing when it suits us.

Enter the sin list.

In the same manner the folk were supposed to have a one-one with the Father, they chose Moses over that option as by now, they were indoctrinated by many things.

The Father IMO gave the two laws of Jesus but Moses Law went further with poetic license. The two cover the entire 10 and all the other 620.

Anyway back to Cain, there was no law to deal with this so the Father, took care of the matter himself. He forgave him and made sure no one would dare judge him.

This theme follows throughout the entire bible but bias will prevent you from seeing it.

God is not concerned with anything but your wellbeing and does not want you to dwell on your weaknesses and beat yourself up about it.

It is the guilt (dwelling upon it) that is the real adversary/accuser.

When you can accept yourself with your fallibility, only then will you be in a position to overcome them.

Rom 14:22 Do you have faith? Have it to yourself before God. Blessed is he who does not condemn himself in what he approves.

Now what you approve is between you and God and your conscious and no one else. I or no one else can make that decision for you.

When you no longer condemn yourself, you will find that it actually becomes easier to move on and get victory over that which bothers you.David came to this revelation when he stated.
Psa 40:5 O Jehovah my God, many things You have done, Your wonderful works and Your thoughts which are toward us; they cannot be set in order to You; I will declare and speak, for they are more than can be numbered.
Psa 40:6 Sacrifice and offering You did not desire; My ears You have opened; burnt offering and sin offering You have not asked.
Psa 40:7 Then I said, Lo, I come, in the volume of the Book it is written of Me;
Psa 40:8 I delight to do Your will, O My God; and Your Law is within My heart.
That law is not the 10 commandments. It is the two of Jesus.

Last edited by SeekerSA; 01-01-2009 at 05:30 AM..
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