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Old 01-01-2009, 06:46 PM
 
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While there is no biblical proof that the things mentioned above are the fulfillment of specific end-times prophecies, we can see how many of these events are similar to what the Bible describes. In any case, we are to be watching for these signs because Jesus told us that the day of the Lord—His return for His own
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Old 01-01-2009, 07:19 PM
 
Location: Gaston, North Carolina
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Quote:
Originally Posted by SeekerSA View Post
I never discounted them, just gave you the rationale behind them.

These things are bad why?
In a way the rationale attempts to discount some things. I did not say all the signs would be bad, but that they exist.

Quote:
Did God not give us the ability to "invent" these things? Would you really prefer to have lived in say 1700?
Like I said they are not all bad signs but are signs.

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It is a natural phenominan that knowledge increases. I was watching a program on History Channel where a guy unwinds a ribbon between two trees to show the progress/knowledge of man. The trees were about 100m apart and the last 100 years is represented as less than 1cm but the advances were soo much greater in this time.
It is the fact that knowledge is increasing at an alarmingly more rapid pace than ever before.

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We are definitely at the end of an age, but it is NOT the end of the world that is in sight.
You are correct, it is the signs of the end of the church age which leads into the day of the Lord.

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But you know what the irony is? This stuff should be making you all warm and fuzzy if your POV were true. Seeing that it comes across fearful, I wonder why it is that it is even under discussion.
You misread my intent, I am thrilled these things are happening and I just want to share the information with everyone.

Quote:
If you say it is to warn folk and get them saved, you give yourself waaay to much credit, seems that is in a department we do not have influence over. There is however things we can do and that is like care for folk as Jesus suggested but I guess that is too much of an effort, much nicer to spread messages of doom and gloom.
You are correct, I cannot save anyone, but by these things coming about, the shear fact of fulfilled prophecy should get people to thinking, which I know is both of our goals.( apologize if that was from a DM.)

Quote:
A starving boy is moved by his next meal not by what may or may not happen when he dies.
This is why I teach the Church of Acts in Sunday School, we need more outreach that counts rather than the same old "I will pray for you" I prefer "Hear I will cloth you, feed you, give you a place to rest", But as we know many so called Christians(not implying anyone in particular are too concerned with themselves than they are the needy).

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The truth is, possibly for the first time since the depression, the USA has finally run into a brick wall and you are experiencing what we have been going through awhile now - stuff like unemployment, losing homes.
I see this as another sign with the world economy suffering so much.

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Jesus is NOT coming back to clean up the mess we have created, I think we are capable of contributing to the solution ourselves.
No He is coming to start the Day of the Lord where everything we have screwed up with sin will be cleansed.

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My points are not distractions, they are raw facts you choose to ignore. If laptops and aeroplanes were the great evil, the bible would be specific. I am guessing but it appears you would prefer that the USA was isolated from the rest of the world. Well guess what, it is the USA that created the mess we are all in and are complicit in contribution to worldwide.
This is where we are misunderstanding one another, they are not all bad signs, many are good signs, but are still signs. Where I think you are distracting is probably our misunderstanding one another because we got so far off track with the conversation, we were throwing mud rather than rationalizing.

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Once upon a time, your forefathers were kicked out of Europe and "sent/went" to the USA and mine to SA and some to the Australian and Indian places, remember we all have roots in the British empire. Britain was slowly kicked out of their colonies (sometimes by terrorists) and look where they are today?
Good points, no arguement here.

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They once commanded the strongest currency in the world - no more. The dollar has also tanked and is going to tank even further so buckle up, it is going to be a bumpy long hard ride. Reality has come home to roost in the USA.
I can see this as well.

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Empire 4.0 will be China and India - watch - and there is nothing the USA will be able to do about it as they already own you. Th USA has been invaded w/o firing a single shot. Your enemy is not the Muslims - you have become your own worst enemy worshipping the mighty dollar.
More signs of the end times.

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It may sound like I am gleeful in this but I am not, we are affected equally, just this time you folk do not get a get out jail free card. We are all in this together.

There is a lesson to be learned here if we will just sit up and pay attention.
True, but greed will win in this world and unless Christ intervenes we will destroy ourselves.
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Old 01-01-2009, 07:31 PM
 
Location: Gaston, North Carolina
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Quote:
Originally Posted by gwynedd1 View Post
Hi RobinD69,

The industrial revolution was well before Israel in 1948. "Israel" is a sigh of what? What scripture are you using to assume this ?
Matthew 24:32-35 the parable of the fig tree. The industrial revolution was great, but no where near the greatness of todays advancing technology.

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Yellowstone is not in Israel. It has nothing to do with the end times.
Earthquakes in diverse places.


Quote:
Josephus Wars of the Jews Book 4
for there broke out a prodigious storm in the night, with the utmost violence, and very strong winds, with the largest showers of rain, with continued lightnings, terrible thunderings, and amazing concussions and bellowings of the earth, that was in an earthquake. These things were a manifest indication that some destruction was coming upon men, when the system of the world was put into this disorder; and any one would guess that these wonders foreshowed some grand calamities that were coming.
Where are the apostate Christians telling people to abstain from food, abstain from marriage, and deny Jesus was in the flesh ?Those were the signs specifically stated by Paul. It certainly was not any later than the 2nd century since Gnostics were well documented.
There are presently Christian claiming Churches that are legalistic. The JWs believe we must live by the strict dietery laws of leviticus. There are several other mainstream denominations that preach this.

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Its not talking about "knowledge" increasing as if any knowledge but knowledge of the end. The wise would understand at the end.
Has Satan been bound and are we living in the Day of the Lord? No we are not, the lion does not lay down with the Lamb and eat hay.

[quote]Name one.

The end times culminates in the shattering of Israel not gathering. Israel 1948 is the exact opposite of what is stated in scripture . God gathers a repentant Israel not an apostate one. So it is no sign of anything. They are not even Israel. They are Rabbinic/Hasidic Jews which is a religion mostly of converted Europeans.[quote]

I already offered Matt 24:32-35.


Quote:
Daniel 12
7I heard the man dressed in linen, who was above the waters of the river, as he (Q)raised his right hand and his left toward heaven, and swore by (R)Him who lives forever that it would be for a (S)time, times, and half a time; and as soon as they finish (T)shattering the power of the holy people, all these events will be completed.
naphats
naw-fats'
a primitive root; to dash to pieces, or scatter:--be beaten in sunder, break (in pieces), broken, dash (in pieces), cause to be discharged, dispersed, be overspread, scatter.
Please read the whole Chapter it is an endtimes prophecy and can be a two fold prophecy like so many. This Chapter is connected to Rev 7:14, and Matt 25:46.
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Old 01-01-2009, 09:32 PM
 
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Quote:
Originally Posted by RobinD69 View Post
Matthew 24:32-35 the parable of the fig tree. The industrial revolution was great, but no where near the greatness of todays advancing technology.
Hi RobinD69,

One could have made this argument at any time in the last 2000 years. Its not a good sign. As I said, it was knowledge about the end times.

Quote:

Earthquakes in diverse places.


There are presently Christian claiming Churches that are legalistic. The JWs believe we must live by the strict dietery laws of leviticus. There are several other mainstream denominations that preach this.


The JWs have been around for 150 years and they don't forbid marriage. If its "this generation" it fails.

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Has Satan been bound and are we living in the Day of the Lord? No we are not, the lion does not lay down with the Lamb and eat hay.
You assume its talking about animals. It almost never is(compare to Matthew 13, wheat and tares grow together).


1 Corinthians 9
8 Do I say these things as a mere man? Or does not the law say the same also? 9 For it is written in the law of Moses, “You shall not muzzle an ox while it treads out the grain.”[a] Is it oxen God is concerned about? 10 Or does He say it altogether for our sakes? For our sakes, no doubt, this is written, that he who plows should plow in hope, and he who threshes in hope should be partaker of his hope.
Quote:
I already offered Matt 24:32-35.
Where does it say Israel will be gathered in the future? Where in the entire New Testament does it say this let alone Matthew 24?



Quote:

Please read the whole Chapter it is an endtimes prophecy and can be a two fold prophecy like so many. This Chapter is connected to Rev 7:14, and Matt 25:46.
They all said the end times was then thus I assume Rev 7 is about Israel then. The gathering of devout Jews was also then(Acts 2). Matthew 25 compares to Michah, Acts 15 and Amos 9. Gentiles becoming Christians are a sign of the end times. It is beyond dispute.


Micah 4
1 Now it shall come to pass in the latter days
That the mountain of the LORD’s house
Shall be established on the top of the mountains,
And shall be exalted above the hills;
And peoples shall flow to it.
2 Many nations shall come and say,

“ Come, and let us go up to the mountain of the LORD,


Why would I look for anything else when the biggest sign is right in front of me, Gentiles seek the God of Abraham, Isaac and Jacob?

1 Peter 1
20 He indeed was foreordained before the foundation of the world, but was manifest in these last times for you 21 who through Him believe in God, who raised Him from the dead and gave Him glory, so that your faith and hope are in God.

Since the 70 weeks were up it is not too surprising.


Also with all those looking for the "apostacy" today I wonder why such people don't move to remove Jude from the Canon since it completely demolishes any idea that the apostasy had not begun. Jude explicitly cites Jesus and declares its fulfillment.
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Old 01-02-2009, 12:39 AM
 
Location: Out of Florida........
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GodTube.com - Virtual Bible (http://www.godtube.com/virtualbible/ - broken link) Who has ears, let them hear what the Spirit is saying to them. In all your getting, get understanding, pray for wisdom to understand the things of God.
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Old 01-02-2009, 01:33 AM
 
Location: SC Foothills
8,831 posts, read 11,622,031 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Betsey Lane View Post
GodTube.com - Virtual Bible (http://www.godtube.com/virtualbible/ - broken link) Who has ears, let them hear what the Spirit is saying to them. In all your getting, get understanding, pray for wisdom to understand the things of God.
Amen Betsey!!!!

NO WHERE in the Bible does it say to pick the parts we like and ignore the rest. And NOWHERE does it say to reinterpret scriptures to your liking.

Like it or not, the time IS short and all you have to do is educate yourself with the scriptures through the Holy Spirit leading you to know that. It makes no difference who thought what all throughout the ages.....what matters is what is happening now and the fulfillment of the prophecies NOW. Israel 1948 cannot be explained away or twisted to fit a certain unscriptural belief.

What's the danger, you say in believing it's already happened?? The danger is hellfire for calling God a liar. Jesus promised to return (2nd coming) and that has NOT happened, and anyone who tries to convince others that it has is guilty of heresy and calling God a liar, and taking away the hope of that promise that Jesus meant for it to be. We are to comfort one another with that promise, not say it is untrue and try to convince the world that God's Word is a lie.

Don't fool yourselves into thinking that it doesn't matter what one believes about this....this is heresy at it's worst and will be punished.
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Old 01-02-2009, 01:40 AM
 
Location: South Africa
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Just a comment of the earthquakes that have come up as an omen. We have really only been recording these effectively in say the last 100 years. Technology now allows us to detect an earthquake to almost pinpoint accuracy on the other side of the globe.

I looked at this website of world earthquake history and we have 363 for this millennium and 418 for the last millennium. Link

Strangely absent are any significant Israeli earthquakes barring one in 2004 in the Dead Sea region, a 5.4 magnitude.

Remarks Four people injured in western Jordan and a landslide occurred in Ma'in. Minor damage to buildings at Jerusalem, Petah-Tiqwa, Tel Aviv and in the Nablus area. Felt from Cairo, Egypt to Lebanon.

Link

Seismology is a relatively new science and has many more monitoring stations globally in say the last 20-30 years and of course we have a global media where this is all usually reported on.

This millennium: Year Number of earthquakes

2000 7
2001 53
2002 45
2003 69
2004 48
2005 50
2006 33
2007 55
2008 41

Pretty up and down if you ask me, no upwardly moving trend - Ironic the last end of the world year 2000 was the quietest with only 7 quakes.

Granted these are the selected bigger quakes i.e. the ones that actually do damage and not what most other classify as tremors.

The core of the earth is molten so we really do not have a stable crust - I assume most have seen pics of a volcano to know the core is molten rock and not green cheese
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Old 01-02-2009, 01:53 AM
 
Location: South Africa
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Quote:
Originally Posted by DayoftheLord View Post
NO WHERE in the Bible does it say to pick the parts we like and ignore the rest. And NOWHERE does it say to reinterpret scriptures to your liking.
Agreed.
Quote:
Like it or not, the time IS short and all you have to do is educate yourself with the scriptures through the Holy Spirit leading you to know that. It makes no difference who thought what all throughout the ages.....what matters is what is happening now and the fulfillment of the prophecies NOW. Israel 1948 cannot be explained away or twisted to fit a certain unscriptural belief.
Nope: Israel today as mentioned earlier is NOT the gathering together. Google Jewish Global population. Nearly half live in the USA and they are NOT packing their bags and leaving the luxury of Florida.
Quote:
What's the danger, you say in believing it's already happened??
Wasted life.
Quote:
The danger is hellfire for calling God a liar. Jesus promised to return (2nd coming) and that has NOT happened, and anyone who tries to convince others that it has is guilty of heresy and calling God a liar, and taking away the hope of that promise that Jesus meant for it to be.
Heresy according to DOTL - hmmm that is very convincing
Quote:
We are to comfort one another with that promise, not say it is untrue and try to convince the world that God's Word is a lie.
Agreed, but he is returning for you the other side of the grave - aka hell - aka Sheol - aka Hades
Quote:
Don't fool yourselves into thinking that it doesn't matter what one believes about this....this is heresy at it's worst and will be punished.
So sayeth DOTL

It is appointed once for man to die and THEN the judgment. Based on your own standards, of not choosing to ignore, please explain how you wiggle your way out of this?

In context:
Heb 9:24 For Christ has not entered into the Holy of Holies made with hands, which are the figures of the true, but into Heaven itself, now to appear in the presence of God for us.
Heb 9:25 Nor yet that He should offer Himself often, even as the high priest enters into the Holy of Holies every year with the blood of others
Heb 9:26 (for then He must have suffered often since the foundation of the world), but now once in the end of the world He has appeared to put away sin by the sacrifice of Himself.
Heb 9:27 And as it is appointed to men once to die, but after this the judgment,
Heb 9:28 so Christ was once offered to bear the sins of many. And to those who look for Him He shall appear the second time without sin to salvation.
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Old 01-02-2009, 03:10 AM
 
Location: SC Foothills
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In response to SeekerSA post (below). Anyone can provide false stats and hope no one pays attention. This is my thread, and it's my responsibility to do so. Below are some posts from another thread from May 2008, and I knew I would need this info again. I've updated the 2008 stats.
Fascination with the end times

Post #59
Here's what it says in the Bible (NIV) about signs of the end times:

Matthew 16.....The Demand for a Sign

"The Pharisees and Sadducees came to Jesus and tested him by asking him to show them a sign from heaven. He replied, "When evening comes, you say, 'It will be fair weather, for the sky is red', and in the morning 'Today it will be stormy for the sky is red and overcast.' You know how to interpret the appearance of the sky, but you cannot interpret the signs of the times. A wicked and adulterous generation looks for a miraculous sign, but none will be given it except the sign of Jonah."

Matthew 24 (whole chapter)....Signs of the End of the Age

Verse 4 & 5: Many claiming to be Christ and deceiving

There are as many as 10,000 people around the world claiming to be the Messiah or Jesus Christ. There is a man in Mexico who already has a large following, and there are and will be many more like him to come.

Verse 6: Wars and rumors of Wars

I've researched the numbers and here's what I came up with. This is an approximate number....I could have miscounted by one or two.

1500 to 1899 - (400 years) worldwide:
There were approximately 341 wars worldwide during this 400 year period. This number does not include the wars within wars, which is just counted as one war. If you divide 341 by 4...that's approximately 85 wars per century.

1900 to 2008 - (108 years) worldwide: (This is where it gets interesting)
There were approximately 296 wars worldwide during one 100 year period.

1500 to 1599 - 80 wars................................1800 to 1899 - 159 wars
1600 to 1699 - 56 wars................................1900 to 2008 - 296 wars
1700 to 1799 - 46 wars................................ 200 years = 455 wars
300 years = 182 wars

The number of wars have doubled just in the last 100 years. There are currently 5 major on-going wars. There are rumors of wars everywhere.

I will address the rest of Matthew 24 in my next post. I personally don't like reading extraordinarily long posts, so I wouldn't expect anyone else to either.

Post #73
Now, to continue what I was saying....here are more stats that someone will try to invalidate, I'm sure. But it is what it is....can't be changed because someone wants it to be different.

Oh, and I will quote Matthew 24:8 (NIV) since someone disputes that Jesus didn't mean that these things would actually increase and also quote the interpretation of this particular scripture.

"All these are the beginnings of birth pains."
birth pains. The rabbis spoke of "birth pains," i.e., sufferings, that would precede the coming of the Messiah.

Verse 7 of Matthew 24:

Famines:
Already we have riots, hoarding, panic: the sign of things to come? - Times Online

All you have to do is read the headlines like the above to know that the entire world is suffering food shortages right now. It is even affecting America because of rising prices and hoarding. And yes, there have been famines throughout history and there are more people in the world, but the food shortages are affecting everyone around the world right now....not just certain poor countries. And it's only going to get worse.

Earthquakes:
Earthquake Summary Posters

This is just a a few stats for 2002 and this year. If you want to see more detailed stats on earthquakes go to the above site.
2002 there were 13 major earthquakes, from 6.5 to 7.9 magnitude.
2008 there has already been 18 major earthquakes and it's only May. The amount and magnitude have both increased....6.3 to 8.5 magnitude.

Hurricanes, Cyclones and Tornadoes:
Hurricane Video Stock - Severe Weather Storm Video Footage and Stock Photos for Hurricanes, Tornadoes, Lightning & Waterspouts (this is worth checking out just for the photos)
Revision history of Category:Tropical cyclone statistics templates - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia
Tornado Severe Weather, Safety, Current Probabilities, Statistics, Skywarn, Facts, Reports

Since Jesus didn't specifically mention hurricanes and cyclones, then my stats on these will not matter to nonbelievers(funny how they perceive Jesus to be a fictional character, yet according to them Jesus didn't say this or that...how absurdly contradictive) But you believers may be interested as I am, so here are a couple of sites to check out.

We all know what is happening right now...earthquake in China, cyclone in Myanmar and hundreds of tornadoes in the U.S. It's not even hurricane season yet. The signs are here, not to mention the migration of the Jews back to Israel. Signs are all around us...the Bible says to not be ignorant and to watch. You first have to open your eyes to "watch".

Post #90
ATTENTION: Correction to post #73
I stated numbers of earthquakes for 2008....should have been 2007. I did not consider 2008 because it is not over yet. It was a typo and information overload error.

Sanspeur, you have chosen to take what I said completely out of context. You took it upon yourself to re-work what I orginally said and base your findings on 7.0 magnitude or greater. That's not what I said. It was the total number of quakes each year, regardless of the magnitudes.

Let's try this again:

2002.........13 total earthquakes (regardless of magnitudes, they happened)
2003.........15 total earthquakes " " "
2004.........13 total earthquakes " " "
2005.........14 total earthquakes " " "
2006.........14 total earthquakes " " "
2007.........18 total earthquakes " " "
2008.........14 earthquakes so far, and it's only May
2008........18 earthquakes total (10 were 7.0 magnitude or greater) This number does not include the 250 small earthquakes at Yellowstone recently that happened within 3 days like Robin mentioned in his post

From 2002 to 2006, the numbers pretty much stayed the same, give or take one or two. Beginning last year (2007) it increased. That's what I am basing my claims on.....what took place last year and is taking place this year. The reason for that is I truly believe that the Lord is coming soon because all things prophesied started changing last year....not just the weather.

Could we go the whole rest of this year without any more earthquakes? It's possible, but very unlikely. We will just have to wait and see, won't we? If the total amount is 19 or more for 2008, maybe it will make you take Biblical prophecy more seriously, hopefully it won't be too late. You will have no basis to dispute what I am saying.....except to say that everything is "cyclical". How lame.


Quote:
Originally Posted by SeekerSA View Post
Just a comment of the earthquakes that have come up as an omen. We have really only been recording these effectively in say the last 100 years. Technology now allows us to detect an earthquake to almost pinpoint accuracy on the other side of the globe.

I looked at this website of world earthquake history and we have 363 for this millennium and 418 for the last millennium. Link

Strangely absent are any significant Israeli earthquakes barring one in 2004 in the Dead Sea region, a 5.4 magnitude.

Remarks Four people injured in western Jordan and a landslide occurred in Ma'in. Minor damage to buildings at Jerusalem, Petah-Tiqwa, Tel Aviv and in the Nablus area. Felt from Cairo, Egypt to Lebanon.

Link

Seismology is a relatively new science and has many more monitoring stations globally in say the last 20-30 years and of course we have a global media where this is all usually reported on.

This millennium: Year Number of earthquakes

2000 7
2001 53
2002 45
2003 69
2004 48
2005 50
2006 33
2007 55
2008 41

Pretty up and down if you ask me, no upwardly moving trend - Ironic the last end of the world year 2000 was the quietest with only 7 quakes.

Granted these are the selected bigger quakes i.e. the ones that actually do damage and not what most other classify as tremors.

The core of the earth is molten so we really do not have a stable crust - I assume most have seen pics of a volcano to know the core is molten rock and not green cheese
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Old 01-02-2009, 06:38 AM
 
Location: South Africa
5,563 posts, read 7,213,605 times
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DOTL

The quake data was not aimed at anyone, Robin mentioned the Yellowstone Park stuff so I started looking for quakes in Israel, they are in which these things should happen, but had only one that came up in a subsequent search.

I am not sure if you have an understanding of how the Richter scale works.

It is logarithmic and for example a 5.0 verses a 4.0 is not a differential of simply 125% increase in intensity. The difference between an 8 and a 7 is a 10 fold difference and between a 9 and a 7, 100 fold difference. That is why some question the Tsunami one that caused the wave was reported smaller than a quake some month later suggesting by some an atomic device was used as a catalyst to start the quake in a known subduction zone. (very tinfoil hat stuff), the latter quake was measured higher than the tsunami and was in the same epicenter and no wave despite a tsunami warning.

The quake data I provided is from a USA geological site (USGS)

What I found concerning Israel is that the quakes there are as a result of landslides as they have fault lines but are NOT on the border of any tectonic plate borders say like Indonesia, Japan and California. The depth of the quakes are also relatively shallow.

If you only select a 7 or greater magnitude you get your figures and where damage is guaranteed in populated areas.

A 5.0-5.9 quake can cause major damage to poorly constructed buildings over small regions. At most slight damage to well-designed buildings.

So I guess we look at 6.0-6.9 as a benchmark where it can be destructive in areas up to about 160 kilometres (100 mi) across in populated areas.

One also has to take into account liquification as there are two waves in quakes, the initial wave is vertical in nature and the follow up (the one that does the damage) is hrizontal. Any city built on water logged clay type land can have liquification taking place with the horizontal waves resulting in higer destruction from even from lesser quakes.

This pic says something of epicentres recorded



The techtonic plates are constantly moving so we now know what causes quakes although we cannot yet accurately predict when one will occur. Seismology can predict if there are pre quake tremors that are scaling up but like the tsunami one, IIRC there was no pre quake activity of note.

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