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Old 12-30-2008, 03:52 PM
 
Location: South Africa
5,563 posts, read 7,213,089 times
Reputation: 1798

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Quote:
Originally Posted by Fundamentalist View Post
hmmmm...let's see, atheists are communists
No you fail right there, you are still in a cold war mindset where Russia was communist yet the church did manage to survive in spite of the communists. Communism =/= Atheism and visa versa. The majority of Russia is Eastern Orthodox (I know not real(tm) Christians) and the ex USSR states much the same apart from two IIRC that were previously Muslim.

Quote:
from China to Eastern Block Nations. Christians are commonly being watched, harrased, jailed, imprisioned, tortured. Africa, where to start? Nigeria where Sharia Law is very prevalent, Christian parents are having their children abducted and and they are forced to convert to Islam, have you been monitoring the Sudan? Let's go to India and what is going on in Orissa State where they are putting bounties on Christian's heads, a pastor will bag you $250.00
Nigeria hmm you obviously do not get the TeeVee feed of that German evangelist Rynard Bonke who has gatherings bigger than Benny Hinn and in fact the two of them did a crusade together ±2 years ago - we are talking millions here that attend. So even that there is a divide between Muslim and Christian, they are not persecuted - I am sure they persecute/try convert each other equally. The problem here is the interference in govt and that is where the major strife comes in, seems there was a concerted push to get a Christian agenda in place supported by none other that good old US of A evangelical churches.

The rest of your "facts" concerning Nigeria are not facts, you need to prove your claims. There is however a huge criminal element coming out of Nigeria and we have them here in SA unfortunately trying their scams - black mafia.

Sudan - is that not where Rod Parsley is active trying to free slaves - yes that is one of the worse states but do not measure all states by one or two.

India, is tolerant of Christians so long as the do not interfere with their caste system, again Benny Hinn had a mass crusade there of over 7M attendees and he was both welcomed and jeered off but the security forces did protect them from the mobs again, the mobs were fringe nuts.

Quote:
Don't fool yourself that Christians are not tolerant, we are not the ones going around killing others since you yourself claim we have all this power to wield and interfere with other people's lives.

Violence without provacation goes against the very fabric of God's teaching.
I agree with the last part fully but when I said intolerant, you folk do appear not to be toleranyt of any folk outside your small paradigms or IOW say USA Muslims.

This whole thread comes about as a direct result of the flare up in Israel which is ----- a war of ideologies between Judaism/Christianity and Islam.

I support neither side nor condone their actions, I am just tired of the "pro-Israel" they cannot do anything wrong attitude because they are God's chosen people.

Over and above that, we do not get Pro Israel news here in our MSM, it reports both sides - however in the Apartheid years it was biased in their favor.

Do some research on who the League of Nations main members were. That predated the UN. You will see SA was there. In the apartheid years, the USA and Israel were our allies.

The USA is where we were 14+ years ago. There is hope for you just as there is for Israel/Palestine.

But while Islamists and Christians hate each other - there is a tit for tat so neither can point a finger. Look at the crusades and the subsequent defeat of the crusaders by the Muslim Turks, it was a war on ideology and has not changed in tens of decades.

Remember too that God said he would bless the descendants of Ishmael - so if you have a problem with Islamists, take it up with God and the same goes for Islamists having issues with the Jews. Abraham was father to both nations. Christians are merely Gentiles that came along later.
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Old 12-30-2008, 04:05 PM
 
8,989 posts, read 14,563,768 times
Reputation: 753
Seriously if you are going to argue then please be..... Cold war?...come on...are you kidding me?...LOL. Dude there are Christians still be persecuted in Eastern Bloc nations AS WE SPEAK.

Maybe you need to get out more but not all countries have law and order like the United States. There is a town in tiny Jamaica where the police never go. Many countries in Africa where the governments do not have full authority and same goes for Nigeria....just because it is safe for evangelist to go in one part of Nigeria does not mean the same for ALL of Nigeria. because it's not

You are basically arguing that the numbers are exaggerated or whatever. I have even read articles from atheist who agree what is going on in the world.

Take your argument up with these guys
The International Day of Prayer for the Persecuted Church
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Old 12-30-2008, 04:23 PM
 
4,440 posts, read 9,069,031 times
Reputation: 1484
Nobody is arguing the numbers. A simple citation would help.
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Old 12-30-2008, 04:27 PM
 
Location: Gaston, North Carolina
4,213 posts, read 5,834,604 times
Reputation: 634
Quote:
Originally Posted by SeekerSA View Post
Aah so this is your tactic is it? And by what authority do you make such a judgment?
No tactic, just an observation.

Quote:
Firstly I am Not American so your definition of liberal does not fly but let us get the DM's out in the open shall we seeing honesty is on the line.
I know you refered to yourself as an univeralist or at least leaning towards universalist, but your comments seem more like distructive accusations rather than seeking truth.
Quote:
So why now the slander and accusations and you call yourself a Christian - go figure!
No slander intended and I apologize if it seemed that way, this is why I did not bring up anything in the DM because then your next state would have had validity if I had.

Quote:
Called bait and trap but I know your type and have debated your kind many times on many boards
You really must look at your bait and trap techniques because as I said I did not bring or use any portion of the DM because I was seeking legitimate conversation and you just continued to get out of hand so I shared my observation. Now you bring in the DM to prove I have done something underhanded and show your own hand in the process. I am sorry if you feel the need to try and destroy the truth and being as you are from South Africa perhaps you have not had legitimate exposure to Biblical Christians.

Quote:
There is nothing hidden that shall not be revealed.
I am not going to argue with you on this, as I said I merely made an observation. Christ said you will know them by their fruits and I am sorry but your fruit seemed spoiled.

Quote:
You have no idea what my knowledge on eschatology is and you are basing your judgments on false premises or IOW puling it out of thin air.
I am sorry you feel this way, as i said I made an observation based on your responces.

Quote:
Please do not insult me or my biblical knowledge or the fact I am a believer of 20+ years.
Knowledge does not make one a Christian, relationship does. If you have been a believer so long then why do you let secular opinions spoil Biblical truth.

Quote:
You do however have the right to agree to disagree with me as do I.
Thank you and agreed.



Quote:
You would do well to heed your own advice. Again do not underestimate my knowledge of the bible.
This has not been my intent, I do read the red letter portions of the Bible on a regular basis and if I have questions I search the context, but Jesus is pretty clear about what He believes and why He believes as He does.

Quote:
BTW the red lettered words used to be green letters and if that is all that you read then it explains maybe why we differ. The red/green letters make you miss the context. Very important.

Respectfully
I believe I addressed this just before your quote and to be consistant the red letters have been many different color depending on the translation. but that is not important. I meant no disrespect in my responce and I thank you for allowing me to explain what I said.
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Old 12-30-2008, 04:29 PM
 
8,989 posts, read 14,563,768 times
Reputation: 753
Quote:
Originally Posted by bigthirsty View Post
Nobody is arguing the numbers. A simple citation would help.
The International Day of Prayer for the Persecuted Church
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Old 12-30-2008, 04:35 PM
 
4,440 posts, read 9,069,031 times
Reputation: 1484
Quote:
Originally Posted by Fundamentalist View Post
Just an fyi..
Attached Thumbnails
Wars and Rumors of Wars-page_not_found.jpg  
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Old 12-30-2008, 04:35 PM
 
Location: Gaston, North Carolina
4,213 posts, read 5,834,604 times
Reputation: 634
Quote:
Originally Posted by SeekerSA View Post
No you fail right there, you are still in a cold war mindset where Russia was communist yet the church did manage to survive in spite of the communists. Communism =/= Atheism and visa versa. The majority of Russia is Eastern Orthodox (I know not real(tm) Christians) and the ex USSR states much the same apart from two IIRC that were previously Muslim.

Nigeria hmm you obviously do not get the TeeVee feed of that German evangelist Rynard Bonke who has gatherings bigger than Benny Hinn and in fact the two of them did a crusade together ±2 years ago - we are talking millions here that attend. So even that there is a divide between Muslim and Christian, they are not persecuted - I am sure they persecute/try convert each other equally. The problem here is the interference in govt and that is where the major strife comes in, seems there was a concerted push to get a Christian agenda in place supported by none other that good old US of A evangelical churches.

The rest of your "facts" concerning Nigeria are not facts, you need to prove your claims. There is however a huge criminal element coming out of Nigeria and we have them here in SA unfortunately trying their scams - black mafia.

Sudan - is that not where Rod Parsley is active trying to free slaves - yes that is one of the worse states but do not measure all states by one or two.

India, is tolerant of Christians so long as the do not interfere with their caste system, again Benny Hinn had a mass crusade there of over 7M attendees and he was both welcomed and jeered off but the security forces did protect them from the mobs again, the mobs were fringe nuts.

I agree with the last part fully but when I said intolerant, you folk do appear not to be toleranyt of any folk outside your small paradigms or IOW say USA Muslims.

This whole thread comes about as a direct result of the flare up in Israel which is ----- a war of ideologies between Judaism/Christianity and Islam.

I support neither side nor condone their actions, I am just tired of the "pro-Israel" they cannot do anything wrong attitude because they are God's chosen people.

Over and above that, we do not get Pro Israel news here in our MSM, it reports both sides - however in the Apartheid years it was biased in their favor.

Do some research on who the League of Nations main members were. That predated the UN. You will see SA was there. In the apartheid years, the USA and Israel were our allies.

The USA is where we were 14+ years ago. There is hope for you just as there is for Israel/Palestine.

But while Islamists and Christians hate each other - there is a tit for tat so neither can point a finger. Look at the crusades and the subsequent defeat of the crusaders by the Muslim Turks, it was a war on ideology and has not changed in tens of decades.

Remember too that God said he would bless the descendants of Ishmael - so if you have a problem with Islamists, take it up with God and the same goes for Islamists having issues with the Jews. Abraham was father to both nations. Christians are merely Gentiles that came along later.
You do know that those TV preachers you mentioned pay alot of money to the governments of those nations to be able to hold their gathering and they write it of as advertisement so the can fleece the citizens of rich countries with the lies of what they calim to do for those countries. In actuallity they are often contributing to the problem instead of help fix it.
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Old 12-30-2008, 06:56 PM
 
Location: SC Foothills
8,831 posts, read 11,621,075 times
Reputation: 58253
[quote]
Quote:
Originally Posted by RobinD69 View Post
I dont remember saying the world doesnt hate Christians and if i did then i misspoke because I know for a fact the world does hate true Christianity and true Christians.
No, no.....that statement was not directed at you Robin. If you will look back at the post I was quoting HotinAZ and all of the response was directed to her. I quoted what you said in another post about the Rapture because it applied.

Quote:
SeekerSA, I now see that you are not a Christian and have no desire to be one, you are merely a disgruntled Gentile who wants to argue for the purpose of arguing. No amout of evidence or facts could diswade you from your view because you are not here to seek but destroy. You have not been honest in your claims and do not seem to be interested in even looking at the evidence of other and only seek to proclaim the party line of liberals.
I could save everyone so much time if they would just ask me what other posters intentions are (I never forget intentions/words), but sometimes we just have to find out for ourselves. Good job, Robin.

Quote:
I ask to please take an honest look at the links I have provided to you no matter what you may think of them. We are not here to spread fear but peace and only someone with hate in their heart will see it as fear. If you will look in the Bible for sayings such as "caught up" this is translated Rapture and has been there since the time of Christ and even in the OT much longer. Look at Elijah and I believe Enosh neither man knew death but were Raptured.
Amen, Brother!!!
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Old 12-30-2008, 07:01 PM
 
Location: SC Foothills
8,831 posts, read 11,621,075 times
Reputation: 58253
Quote:
Originally Posted by Mr Floyd View Post
Apologies for seemingly veering off course and not addressing the end of days directly but...

The masses are in a drug induced stupor so steering them off a cliff shouldn't be that hard. Just offer free Gucci bags or flat screens at the bottom. The drug we are on? TV most likely. When our forefathers wrote references to intellectual and secular pursuits (they also wisely included spirituality) into our doctrine, I don't think they imagined the omnipresent power of mainstream media. Has any single thing posed such a large threat / challenge to our existence, spiritual or otherwise?

Get the masses off the tube and they may wake up to issues such as those discussed in this thread.

Lastly, I think I must be Doubting Thomas, re-born as skepticism runs rampant through my veins. I am not completely closed off though, even if sarcasm occasionally escapes from me.

(Hehe, drug stupor and gucci bags)
Not completely closed off is good, Mr. Floyd. We'll accept that.
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Old 12-30-2008, 09:34 PM
 
1,897 posts, read 3,492,374 times
Reputation: 289
To whom did Jesus say, "You will hear of wars and rumors of wars?"
To whom did Jesus say, "see that you are not troubled?"

What is the context of Matthew 24 and Mark 13?

"And as he sat upon the Mount of Olives, THE DISCIPLES came unto Him privately, saying, Tell us, when shall these things be? And what shall be the sign of your coming, and of the end of the age? And Jesus answered THEM," (Mat. 24:3-4a).

It was Jesus' first-century disciples right there with Him who were to hear of wars and rumors of wars--THEY were not to be troubled! That is the context! The timing of these wars and rumors of wars is clearly given in verse 34--"THIS generation will by no means pass away till ALL these things take place." The ALL things were to occur in the lifetime of those disciples right there with Jesus.

Why do so many in the Church today look for the fulfillment of things that were never intended for them? WE are not the YE of those verses in Matthew 24 and Mark 13!

Preterist
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