U.S. CitiesCity-Data Forum Index
Go Back   City-Data Forum > General Forums > Religion and Spirituality > Christianity
 [Register]
Please register to participate in our discussions with 2 million other members - it's free and quick! Some forums can only be seen by registered members. After you create your account, you'll be able to customize options and access all our 15,000 new posts/day with fewer ads.
View detailed profile (Advanced) or search
site with Google Custom Search

Search Forums  (Advanced)
Reply Start New Thread
 
Old 12-30-2008, 08:37 AM
 
8,989 posts, read 13,735,538 times
Reputation: 750

Advertisements

(continued from another thread)

Quote:
Originally Posted by fundamentalist View Post
actually since jesus is not on earth anymore then this "unpardonable" sin against the holy spirit cannot be duplicated but there is one unpardonable sin and that is dieing in your sin without receiving christ. The sin of unbelief

Quote:
Originally Posted by scgraham View Post
that is inaccurate. Jesus is still performing many, many miracles today through his real believers who lay hands on the sick. This was not limited to the early church. If someone was to attribute a real healing or miracle by the holy ghost to the devil, then they could duplicate the unpardonable sin.
Quote:
Originally Posted by scgraham View Post


(mark 16;16-20) "and these signs shall follow them that believe; in my name shall they cast out devils; they shall speak with new tongues; they shall take up serpents; and if they drink any deadly thing, it shall not hurt them; they shall lay hands on the sick, and they shall recover. So then after the lord had spoken unto them, he was received up into heaven, and sat on the right hand of god. And they went forth, and preached every where, the lord working with them, and confirming the word with signs following. Amen."

the lord is still confirming his word with signs.
-

Last edited by Fundamentalist; 12-30-2008 at 09:54 AM..
Rate this post positively Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message

 
Old 12-30-2008, 08:40 AM
 
8,989 posts, read 13,735,538 times
Reputation: 750
So refreshing. I love that! It's ok to disagree with me. You use scripture to back it up with the right context and I can see your point but even though I believe in apostle authority, I however don't believe in apostle succession. We were not given authority to cast out demons, if we were then where are the instructions? How do you get demons out of a nonbeliever?

(Acts 19:13) 13Then some of the itinerant Jewish exorcists undertook to invoke the name of the Lord Jesus over those who had evil spirits, saying, "I adjure you by the Jesus whom Paul proclaims." 14Seven sons of a Jewish high priest named Sceva were doing this. 15But the evil spirit answered them, "Jesus I know, and Paul I recognize, but who are you?" 16And the man in whom was the evil spirit leaped on them, mastered all of them and overpowered them, so that they fled out of that house naked and wounded. 17And this became known to all the residents of Ephesus
Rate this post positively Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
 
Old 12-30-2008, 08:41 AM
 
8,989 posts, read 13,735,538 times
Reputation: 750
Quote:
Originally Posted by Fundamentalist View Post
So refreshing. I love that! It's ok to disagree with me. You use scripture to back it up with the right context and I can see your point but even though I believe in apostle authority, I however don't believe in apostle succession. We were not given authority to cast out demons, if we were then where are the instructions? How do you get demons out of a nonbeliever?

(Acts 19:13) 13Then some of the itinerant Jewish exorcists undertook to invoke the name of the Lord Jesus over those who had evil spirits, saying, "I adjure you by the Jesus whom Paul proclaims." 14Seven sons of a Jewish high priest named Sceva were doing this. 15But the evil spirit answered them, "Jesus I know, and Paul I recognize, but who are you?" 16And the man in whom was the evil spirit leaped on them, mastered all of them and overpowered them, so that they fled out of that house naked and wounded. 17And this became known to all the residents of Ephesus
Quote:
Originally Posted by scgraham View Post
Your scripture only confirms that the devils knew Jesus' real believer, Paul; and, Paul had authority over devils. Real believers have authority over the devil and his demons. I see the drug addicts, alcoholics and many others who are bound with many devils being delivered. Those devils are put under subjection and forced to flee; but, if a person does not serve God, the devils will come back.

Here is some good reading from a real Jesus ministry: Literature by Ernest Angley

The power of the Holy Ghost is amazing.
a
Rate this post positively Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
 
Old 12-30-2008, 09:23 AM
 
Location: Pilot Point TX
7,699 posts, read 13,212,950 times
Reputation: 4688
Those with whom His spirit resides has the backing of their Father's will. The key is the Spirit, for only He knows the divine will.
Rate this post positively Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
 
Old 12-30-2008, 09:26 AM
 
Location: Seward, Alaska
2,741 posts, read 8,505,998 times
Reputation: 2006
Quote:
Originally Posted by Fundamentalist View Post
So refreshing. I love that! It's ok to disagree with me. You use scripture to back it up with the right context and I can see your point but even though I believe in apostle authority, I however don't believe in apostle succession. We were not given authority to cast out demons, if we were then where are the instructions? How do you get demons out of a nonbeliever?

(Acts 19:13) 13Then some of the itinerant Jewish exorcists undertook to invoke the name of the Lord Jesus over those who had evil spirits, saying, "I adjure you by the Jesus whom Paul proclaims." 14Seven sons of a Jewish high priest named Sceva were doing this. 15But the evil spirit answered them, "Jesus I know, and Paul I recognize, but who are you?" 16And the man in whom was the evil spirit leaped on them, mastered all of them and overpowered them, so that they fled out of that house naked and wounded. 17And this became known to all the residents of Ephesus
If we were not given authority to cast out demons, then why is it that we can cast out demons...in the name of Jesus? The seven sons of Sceva event was not written to show that believers can't cast out demons, it was written to show that non-believser can't. IE: they were not saved, born-again, and spirit-filled. But, they tried to cast out demons anyway. The power to do this was not given to non-believers, but to Christians only. You don't have to be an "apostle", just being an ordinary believer is enough. Whether there is apostolic succession, or not, doesn't matter...it's irrelevant.
So, are you a believer? Then you can...

Bud
Rate this post positively Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
 
Old 12-30-2008, 10:00 AM
 
8,989 posts, read 13,735,538 times
Reputation: 750
Quote:
Originally Posted by BudinAk View Post
If we were not given authority to cast out demons, then why is it that we can cast out demons...in the name of Jesus? The seven sons of Sceva event was not written to show that believers can't cast out demons, it was written to show that non-believser can't. IE: they were not saved, born-again, and spirit-filled. But, they tried to cast out demons anyway. The power to do this was not given to non-believers, but to Christians only. You don't have to be an "apostle", just being an ordinary believer is enough. Whether there is apostolic succession, or not, doesn't matter...it's irrelevant.
So, are you a believer? Then you can...

Bud
Can we? I have yet to hear a story of a successful exorcism of an unbeliever without he or she repenting and putting their trust in Christ. There are also passages where the Apostle Paul himself came across demons who were to powerful.
Why can't we raise the dead or handle poisonous snakes? (not talking about those people who just temp God buidling a tolerance of sanke venom)

Last edited by Fundamentalist; 12-30-2008 at 10:10 AM..
Rate this post positively Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
 
Old 12-30-2008, 02:38 PM
 
298 posts, read 683,628 times
Reputation: 181
Quote:
Originally Posted by Fundamentalist View Post
Can we? I have yet to hear a story of a successful exorcism of an unbeliever without he or she repenting and putting their trust in Christ. There are also passages where the Apostle Paul himself came across demons who were to powerful.
Why can't we raise the dead or handle poisonous snakes? (not talking about those people who just temp God buidling a tolerance of sanke venom)
Luke 10:17-20
"The seventy-two returned with joy, saying, “Lord, even the demons are subject to us in your name!” 18 And he said to them, “I saw Satan fall like lightning from heaven. 19 Behold, I have given you authority to tread on serpents and scorpions, and over all the power of the enemy, and nothing shall hurt you. 20 Nevertheless, do not rejoice in this, that the spirits are subject to you, but rejoice that your names are written in heaven.”

The apostles are not the only ones who have been given authority over demons. Our fight is not against flesh. If casting out demons were a gift (like prophecy) then I could see your argument that not everyone will have that gift. I see every indication that Christians fight a spiritual battle and no indication that we are limited in fighting that battle in ways that the apostles weren't.

Mark 9:8-29
28 And when he had entered the house, his disciples asked him privately, “Why could we not cast it out?” 29 And he said to them, “This kind cannot be driven out by anything but prayer.”

Notice that driving out the evil spirit was not "impossible" for the disciples - it was only possible through prayer - something all Christians have access to.

Last edited by HSVbulldawg; 12-30-2008 at 02:53 PM..
Rate this post positively Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
 
Old 12-30-2008, 03:12 PM
 
298 posts, read 683,628 times
Reputation: 181
Mark 9: 38-40
John said to Him, "Teacher, we saw someone casting out demons in Your name, and we tried to prevent him because he was not following us." But Jesus said, "Do not hinder him, for there is no one who will perform a miracle in My name, and be able soon afterward to speak evil of Me. For he who is not against us is for us."

This is another example of someone who is not one of the apostles who is able to cast out demons. How do you explain this if you believe this authority was only given to the apostles?
Rate this post positively Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
 
Old 12-30-2008, 03:14 PM
 
8,989 posts, read 13,735,538 times
Reputation: 750
Quote:
Originally Posted by HSVbulldawg View Post
Luke 10:17-20
"The seventy-two returned with joy, saying, “Lord, even the demons are subject to us in your name!” 18 And he said to them, “I saw Satan fall like lightning from heaven. 19 Behold, I have given you authority to tread on serpents and scorpions, and over all the power of the enemy, and nothing shall hurt you. 20 Nevertheless, do not rejoice in this, that the spirits are subject to you, but rejoice that your names are written in heaven.”

The apostles are not the only ones who have been given authority over demons. Our fight is not against flesh. If casting out demons were a gift (like prophecy) then I could see your argument that not everyone will have that gift. I see every indication that Christians fight a spiritual battle and no indication that we are limited in fighting that battle in ways that the apostles weren't.

Mark 9:8-29
28 And when he had entered the house, his disciples asked him privately, “Why could we not cast it out?” 29 And he said to them, “This kind cannot be driven out by anything but prayer.”

Notice that driving out the evil spirit was not "impossible" for the disciples - it was only possible through prayer - something all Christians have access to.
Yes he passed it on to the apostles. I never said, the apostles could not cast out demons because they did however at times even when they invoked Jesus name, there were demons still too powerful. I have yet to see such power or authority passed on to us. The disciples raised the dead too, why can't we?

How can you get a demon out of a person if they don't repent and put their trust in Christ? isn't that what got them posessed in the first place?
Rate this post positively Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
 
Old 12-30-2008, 03:25 PM
 
Location: Seward, Alaska
2,741 posts, read 8,505,998 times
Reputation: 2006
[quote=Fundamentalist;6761057]Can we? I have yet to hear a story of a successful exorcism of an unbeliever without he or she repenting and putting their trust in Christ.


Uh....isn't repenting and trusting in Christ part of the package, part of the deal? Why would God bother delivering unsaved people, unless they came to Him in repentence? You repent, then trust in God to deliver you...
Yes, I understand there are unsaved people who do not want to be delivered. It's not impossible, but they are not likely to be set free. Why not? Because, most of the time, they have to want to be free. Otherwise, we could just set the whole entire world free all at once, in one fell swoop (regardless of their desire or will)...with a simple command. But...even Jesus Himself did not do that...lots of people in His day went undelivered...


There are also passages where the Apostle Paul himself came across demons who were to powerful.

That's right! They wouldn't leave under ordinary command of a believer. But...they WOULD by prayer and fasting! (and that's according to Jesus!)


Why can't we raise the dead or handle poisonous snakes? (not talking about those people who just temp God buidling a tolerance of sanke venom)[/url][/QUOTE]


We can raise the dead, and handle poisonous snakes! (accidently handle them, that is. Doing it on purpose is tempting God) No offense intended, but why do you feel that we can't? Do a Google search for "raised from the dead". You'll find numerous accounts. One such (among many):
http://itrustyou.wordpress.com/2008/...ead/]Stillborn Baby Raised From the Dead « Off Grid Worship

Bud
Rate this post positively Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
Please register to post and access all features of our very popular forum. It is free and quick. Over $68,000 in prizes has already been given out to active posters on our forum. Additional giveaways are planned.

Detailed information about all U.S. cities, counties, and zip codes on our site: City-data.com.


Reply
Please update this thread with any new information or opinions. This open thread is still read by thousands of people, so we encourage all additional points of view.

Quick Reply
Message:

Over $104,000 in prizes was already given out to active posters on our forum and additional giveaways are planned!

Go Back   City-Data Forum > General Forums > Religion and Spirituality > Christianity
Similar Threads

All times are GMT -6.

© 2005-2022, Advameg, Inc. · Please obey Forum Rules · Terms of Use and Privacy Policy · Bug Bounty

City-Data.com - Contact Us - Archive 1, 2, 3, 4, 5, 6, 7, 8, 9, 10, 11, 12, 13, 14, 15, 16, 17, 18, 19, 20, 21, 22, 23, 24, 25, 26, 27, 28, 29, 30, 31, 32, 33, 34, 35, 36, 37 - Top