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Without the Holy Spirit, scripture at home or in a church is lifeless. There are many churches , who hinder the Holy Spirit. 'Have a form of Godliness but deny the power thereof.' I find when it presented in truth with the Holy Spirit leading, not man, it is very powerful and lifegiving. When man interferes, that's when we have misrepresentation of scripture and God.
If a person does not have the gift of the Holy Spirit it will seem meaningless, as faith is a gift from God.
I am curious...how do you determine someone has the gift of the Spirit????
How do you know the 'spirit' leading those with whom you are pleased is the Spirit of God???
I used to believe this 100%.
I grew up in the Christian church as my mother was a director, worship leader, bible study group leader and more. Now, I question people in the churches who are passive aggressive and spread little lies and rumors and no one notices it as if is it under their radar. People argue and do not agree on so many issues and some insist they know it all within churches. Also, how do you explain the people in some churches that secretly have evil intentions...like the BTK serial killer to be specific? I am sorry for sounding so negative and I wished I could have better trust and appreciation for church. Something seems to be missing in the churches...is it Gods presence? No human knows exactly what God wants or expects from us and wouldn't it be vain to say so. All you can do is repeat what has been written in God's word and pray that it is all true and never had been tainted, right?
Are you familiar with all the perils that Paul wrote about, that he had suffered?? One of them was false brethren....so, what's new??? When I become absolutely perfect, without ever sinning, I will be qualified to point a finger at those who have not achieved this status. But I do not think that will ever happen. There has been only one perfect person on this earrh. It was Jesus the Christ.
Was God missing in the churches that Paul was associated with?
I do not believe God gave us a tainted word! Jesus promised His words would not pass away. I believe Him.
It is very possible that the 'church' that you grew up in was not right with God ????
I wasn't sure if anyone got this so, here it is again.
Quote:
Originally Posted by antjraf
What is "church"?
Is it what the scriptures tell us, "For where two or three are gathered together in my name, there am I in the midst of them." Matt 18:20
or
Is it the building where the person in charge went seeking "permission" from the government to start a "non-profit" business so as to receive the "benefits" and "priviledges" of tax-free status from the fiction in law known as the "US Government" in the form of a 501(c)3 organization?
"Church", as we know it today is so far removed from what Jesus taught that it is astounding.
What does "Preach" mean?
Believers are to Preach God's Word (2 Timothy 4:2; Acts 20:7-9; 1 Timothy 4:6-16). Also mentioned is "exhort" and "teach" in these verses. Far more significant, however, is the entire notion of "preaching". There were no one-man lectures (monologues) in the early Church until Greek philosophy was imported into the Church. The traveling philosophers (peripatetics) were popular in the Greco-Roman world, and were too easily imitated among Believers. What passes for "preaching" in our day has absolutely no Biblical warrant. Nowhere in the New Testament is there an example of a "sermon" in the Christ's assemblies.
We need to emphasize this point. If the Apostle Paul were invited into one of our meetings and saw only one man give an oration patterned after the Greek philosophers of his day, with absolutely no interaction with the "laymen," Paul would demand to know "What's going on here?" This modern pattern bears no resemblance to the New Testament pattern, although it is unwittingly patterned after ancient Greek itinerant moralists. The "sermon" is an unscriptural tradition, imported from Greco-Roman paganism. Some preachers, of course, fail to meet even the standards of the Greek philosophers. Their "preaching" is pure entertainment.
Acts 20 is used to establish many modern practices of the church, and yet it supports none of them. Consider "preaching." The Greek word for "preach" in Acts 20:7,9 is word #1256, dialegomai: it's a "dialogue" not a "monologue." Dialegomai means "to converse, discourse with one, argue, discuss". It comes from the word "di" which means "a combining form meaning 'two', 'double'." We do not have "dialogue and discussion" in most "churches," and therefore do not obey Acts 20:7. Does the church really believe that Paul gave an uninterrupted lecture -- for twelve hours?!? Dialegomai is also translated as "reasoned" in Acts 17:2, where Paul "reasoned" in the synagogue out of the scriptures. Paul "reasoned in the synagogue every sabbath" (Acts 18:4,19). In church, the preacher doesn't "reason" with anybody, but simply talks with no chance of interaction with those in the audience. Dialegomai is also translated as "disputed" in Acts 17:17, where Paul "disputed he in the synagogue", and in Acts 19:8 where he was "disputing and persuading the things concerning the kingdom of God." In Church, the pastor does not give anyone the chance to "dispute" or "question" him. Is this biblical?
For now, note the inescapable fact that there simply was no "preaching" or "sermon" as we popularly conceive it today. When we proclaim the Gospel to our neighbor, we engage in "official and professional instruction" as priest-kings of Christ! The gates of hell are assaulted and overcome by our "informal discussion". Modern churches have replaced the discussion and animated conversation of the New Testament with "sermons," an invention of the Greeks, and a man-made tradition. As a result, I cannot obey the Scriptural commands as cited in 1 Corinthians 14:26,31 when I "attend church"; I cannot edify and prophesy. Neither can I obey 1 Timothy 4:13 and 2 Timothy 4:2 when I "attend church"; I cannot exhort, I cannot "teach", except through hymns (but not of my choosing). Only one person exhorts in a "church"; the whole congregation violates Hebrews 10:24-25, at least when they are "attending church." Perhaps they obey these commands later in the afternoon, when in colloquial discussion they bring all thoughts captive to Christ (2 Corinthians 10:5), but certainly not during Church services.
Well, as Catholics we believe in something called the Eucharist, where we receive the literal blood and body of Jesus Christ.
I suppose if I were to go to a baptist ministry, and was to hear the bible every Sunday I'd think it was worthless too. I could just as easily read the bible on my own. But going to Catholic mass is much different than your protestant service.
Way back when I was a practicing Catholic the mass was done in Latin....Talk about boredom!
Is it what the scriptures tell us, "For where two or three are gathered together in my name, there am I in the midst of them." Matt 18:20
or
Is it the building where the person in charge went seeking "permission" from the government to start a "non-profit" business so as to receive the "benefits" and "priviledges" of tax-free status from the fiction in law known as the "US Government" in the form of a 501(c)3 organization?
"Church", as we know it today is so far removed from what Jesus taught that it is astounding.
Actually we can thank William Tyndale for giving us the proper english words and phrases we find in many of our modern english translations. Of course the new words and phrases did'nt sit well with the hierachy of the Roman Catholic Church. Tyndale actually found better more correct words for such rendering of words like 'Overseer' rather than 'Bishop', and 'Elder' rather than 'Priest', and (very controversially) 'congregation' as opposed to 'Church'.
So the original word used by the early Christians was congregation, as opposed to most monolithic Cathedrals we usually think of as a building structure. The word actually as you pointed out, had more to do with the people under the Lord's care and shepherding.
Sad part is that this and other truths about God's word discovered by William Tyndale got him tied to a stake, strangled and burned by the jealous Clergy. There seems to be many outstanding individuals throughout history who were true Christians who experienced the same things that happened to Jesus at the hands of wicked Clergyman.
I am in my 50's and feel no need for church, and never have. I am happy, productive, have many friends, work hard, have a wonderful marriage (over 26 years) and three great adult children, as well as two foster children and a whole group of young adults who still call me "Mom". Our house was always a house of refuge for children and teens; a place where they could get honest answers, respect, and real conversation, without being told that they were 'evil' and needed to be saved and find Jesus. I've got nothing against Jesus, organized (or disorganized) religion, or any sect, belief, or cult - I believe what I believe and respect other peoples' rights to do the same. If organized religion is what people need, then they should have access to it. If it isn't what they need, they shouldn't be ostacized or chastized for choosing a different path.
I am in my 50's and feel no need for church, and never have. I am happy, productive, have many friends, work hard, have a wonderful marriage (over 26 years) and three great adult children, as well as two foster children and a whole group of young adults who still call me "Mom". Our house was always a house of refuge for children and teens; a place where they could get honest answers, respect, and real conversation, without being told that they were 'evil' and needed to be saved and find Jesus. I've got nothing against Jesus, organized (or disorganized) religion, or any sect, belief, or cult - I believe what I believe and respect other peoples' rights to do the same. If organized religion is what people need, then they should have access to it. If it isn't what they need, they shouldn't be ostacized or chastized for choosing a different path.
Since I believe that your relationship to god is personal ;I don't beleive you have to go to church.However I always get a better understandig of much of the bible when I do.I have always loved the stories of the bible. For teh same reason I am always drawn to television shows on christianity and the bible stories.
Since I believe that your relationship to god is personal ;I don't beleive you have to go to church.However I always get a better understandig of much of the bible when I do.I have always loved the stories of the bible. For teh same reason I am always drawn to television shows on christianity and the bible stories.
No he isn't. He is talking about the pulpit pounder at the front in the church building............
Hey I'm validating your comment also! : ) I feel the same way.
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