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No Luther was trying to clarify what HE believed. Not the truth. If you need grace to be saved, and you need faith to get grace, and you to works to have faith that is not dead, then you need the works to get the faith to get the grace to get salvation. So you need both faith AND works to the the grace needed for salvation.
Nope. Faith is not something you get nor generate, it is a gift from God, there is nothing you can do to be saved. James said, "faith without works is dead" but James didn't mean justification is by faith plus works. James was saying if you do have faith then you will have good works, but if don't have good works then you do not have a genuine faith in Christ. Your faith is dead.
Last edited by Fundamentalist; 02-04-2009 at 08:56 AM..
Nope. Faith is not something you get nor generate, it is a gift from God, there is nothing you can do to be saved. James said, "faith without works is dead" but James didn't mean justification is by faith plus works. James was saying if you do have faith then you will have good works, but if don't have good works then you do not have a genuine faith in Christ. Your faith is dead.
Either way you say it. You still need works. You just said it differently
I like sitting down and talking with them because I will go so far as to read the Bible with them and I will also use a concordance and an interlinier Bible and share with them the deeper study I have done. I own a JW Bible and I know it is slightly different from ours so I share gently and try not to run them off, especially if its a cute red head,LOL. I find their literature interesting even if I do not agree with it and I applaud their efforts.
Either way you say it. You still need works. You just said it differently
You need works to assure yourself and others that you have genuine faith but there is NOTHING you can do to earn your way to heaven. Having genuine faith in Christ will grow you, you can do nothing but show good works because the Holy Spirit indwells you; you are a new creature. It's automatic.
Works will not get you or earn you salvation, it is a sign that you have faith.
Last edited by Fundamentalist; 02-04-2009 at 09:24 AM..
What do you do when the Jehovah's Witnesses come knocking on your door?
Quote:
Originally Posted by I LOVE NORTH CAROLINA
I don't open the door.
I second this motion.
Quote:
Originally Posted by I LOVE NORTH CAROLINA
No, she is referring to the fact I eat raccoon.....coon And yes I really do eat it!!
I dont second this one...what in the blue blazes got you started with that?! Bad enough we Tar Heels get called hillbillies without somebody chowing down on 'coon.
I dont second this one...what in the blue blazes got you started with that?! Bad enough we Tar Heels get called hillbillies without somebody chowing down on 'coon.
Well my daddy killed it, my mama cooked it and I ate it
I am not rude nor insulting to them..If I have a minute, I will talk to them..If I am too busy, I will explain, and I always accept their offer of their Awake or Watchtower magazine..and I do read them....If they want to come inside for bible study I simply and say "No thank you," If they are insistant I just tell them the truth thatI have done that and prefer not to go through it again...
The other day, two Jws came to my door. Both of them were very nice, and this time they weren't rude to me after I told them that I was a Christian who happens to attend a Baptist church.
The last time a JW came to my door he totally started telling me how my religion follows the traditions of men, and that my beliefs are basically wrong from his, which shocked me because I was thinking that if he wanted me to see the light, then that wasn't the way to do it. It would have been so easy for me to go instantly in the flesh and argue with him about where I thought their teachings were wrong. But what I did instead was gave him my testimony when I became a christian, and how I loved God Jehovah just as much as they do, and gave him a question to ponder about using his own bible?
I started this thread because so many threads seem to be so anti-Jehovah's witness. Instead of us non Jehovah's witnesses starting threads to debate whether JWs are right or wrong, let's share our testimonies with them and our beliefs without debating.
Since JWs are so used to being treated rude by people when they are out in their Field Service, as they call it, they don't encounter too many people who can really articulate what they believe and why using the bible like them.
What makes the JWs so effective is that they are well trained and well studied on their beliefs. Many times we as christians can't defend what we believe because some of us don't attend Sunday School or attend a weekly bible studies where we can get systematic teaching in order to tell others about our beliefs.
So for the bible students out there who are not Jehovah's Witnesses.
What do you do when the Jehovah's Witnesses come knocking on your door?
I haven't had any visit for over 10 years. I lived at my previous house for 9 years, and the one I'm in now I've been there 2....no j-dubs visiting.
They're fun to talk to...I'd like to have some drop by sometime. The last time I had some drop by about 12-13 years ago I walked with them to the neighbors' houses to give counter-arguments. They ended up just leaving the neighborhood.
(Ephesians 2:8–9) 8 For it is by grace you have been saved, through faith—and this not from yourselves, it is the gift of God— 9 not by works, so that no one can boast.
The Apostle Paul was pretty clear that it was faith alone and Luther wanted that clarity known especially to those who were trying to add works so one can think they can work their way to heaven. It is God alone so He can get all the glory.
You are correct that only God can give grace. Catholics agree with that statement, believe it or not. But there is a MAJOR difference between "by faith" and "by faith alone". This is the wrong thread to explain how works get's dovetailed into that, so I will refrain. I am sure there are existing threads that deal with that. But I will suggest that Martin Luther wrongly translated your Bible. What else did he decide to change? I know he left out anything that was "too Catholic". In fact he wanted to remove James from the Bible too, but some folks talked him out of it. I guess this the wrong thread for that too.....How 'bout them JW's!
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And yes I really do eat it!!
I dont second this one...what in the blue blazes got you started with that?! Bad enough we Tar Heels get called hillbillies without somebody chowing down on 'coon.
