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When he spoke of the two greatest commandments he had not died yet either - he was talking to the Jews at that time.
To hold your view it seems that you must ignore the plain teaching of Jesus on the law:
Mat 5:17 Think not that I am come to destroy the law, or the prophets: I am not come to destroy, but to fulfil.
Mat 5:18 For verily I say unto you, Till heaven and earth pass, one jot or one tittle shall in no wise pass from the law, till all be fulfilled.
Mat 5:19 Whosoever therefore shall break one of these least commandments, and shall teach men so, he shall be called the least in the kingdom of heaven: but whosoever shall do and teach them, the same shall be called great in the kingdom of heaven.
nice try though
HK
You're right, He had not died yet when He said which two were the greatest. So? All the ten commandments were nailed to the cross...I never said they weren't.
Do you keep the Sabbath day holy as God commanded" Yes or no question...
Exo 20:8 Remember the sabbath day, to keep it holy.
Exo 20:9 Six days shalt thou labour, and do all thy work:
Exo 20:10 But the seventh day is the sabbath of the LORD thy God: in it thou shalt not do any work, thou, nor thy son, nor thy daughter, thy manservant, nor thy maidservant, nor thy cattle, nor thy stranger that is within thy gates:
Exo 20:11 For in six days the LORD made heaven and earth, the sea, and all that in them is, and rested the seventh day: wherefore the LORD blessed the sabbath day, and hallowed it.
HK
Well, I'm going to go out on a limb and give all another glimpse into my real life.
I believe each day is to be kept holy. I believe each day should be Sabbath. That isn't to say that I disregard the seventh day the Lord rested. Not at all...it is still to me the Sabbath. I wonder if that makes sense to you? I'm not one to just go to church on a Sunday and leave it all be. I believe a family should read God's Word together each day...pray together...etc.
I am praying about my family transitioning to a Friday/Saturday sundown Sabbath. Do I think it is necessary for a Sunday or Saturday or any day Sabbath? Not exactly...I believe ever day should remain holy. But...like I said...I'm praying.
The Lord has never let me down. He always answers. I am a huge believer on the Holy Spirit's guidance. So...I'm sitting here patiently.
Don't be breaking our new found discussion bond, HK...please don't tell me I'm going to hell.
You're right, He had not died yet when He said which two were the greatest. So? All the ten commandments were nailed to the cross...I never said they weren't.
I'm more curious as to why He only mentioned six.
When asked "which commandments" Jesus quoted from the ten commandments.
The commandments are one law with ten parts which cannot be separated. Quoting one does not eliminate the other nine.... Breaking one is breaking the whole law.
James made this fact clear when he wrote:
Jam 2:10 For whosoever shall keep the whole law, and yet offend in one point, he is guilty of all.
Jam 2:11 For he that said, Do not commit adultery, said also, Do not kill. Now if thou commit no adultery, yet if thou kill, thou art become a transgressor of the law.
Well, I'm going to go out on a limb and give all another glimpse into my real life.
I believe each day is to be kept holy. I believe each day should be Sabbath. That isn't to say that I disregard the seventh day the Lord rested. Not at all...it is still to me the Sabbath. I wonder if that makes sense to you? I'm not one to just go to church on a Sunday and leave it all be. I believe a family should read God's Word together each day...pray together...etc.
I am praying about my family transitioning to a Friday/Saturday sundown Sabbath. Do I think it is necessary for a Sunday or Saturday or any day Sabbath? Not exactly...I believe ever day should remain holy. But...like I said...I'm praying.
The Lord has never let me down. He always answers. I am a huge believer on the Holy Spirit's guidance. So...I'm sitting here patiently.
Don't be breaking our new found discussion bond, HK...please don't tell me I'm going to hell.
Would not even consider such a thing - way above my pay grade!
I realize how difficult the Sabbath question is since the vast majority of Christianity has rejected it or changed the day.
That is why we have the commandments - to test ourselves - and doctrines.
How could they all be wrong? Right?
And yet that is exactly what was prophesied by Paul - that the man of lawlessness would take his place in the temple of God.
2Th 2:3 Let no one deceive you in any way. For that day will not come, unless the rebellion (apostasy) comes first, and the man of lawlessness is revealed, the son of destruction,
What LAW was Paul talking about? Not mans law certainly. The rebellion is against God's law and the Sabbath was the first place of attack.
First it was changed to Sunday then the aspect of not working was set aside until today it is a thing to be ridiculed as you can see on this forum.
The next step in the rebellion was to set aside any necessity of keeping the commandments for salvation.
You wrote:
I believe ever day should remain holy. But...like I said...I'm praying.
That is all anyone can do - pray and ask the Lord to show us what he wants us to do and then do it - even if it costs us our life to obey.
Many say - hmmmmph - I am holy everyday
No question - we must be holy everyday but we cannot keep every day holy. Apples and oranges...
The Sabbath was blessed and sanctified at creation. Sanctified in that context means "set apart for the worship of God". Jesus reaffirmed that the Sabbath was made for man....
That is why Satan hates the Sabbath and attacks it - it was a day set aside for man to honor the God of creation and Satan wants that honor...
Have a nice "day"...
HK
Eze 20:12 Moreover, I gave them my Sabbaths, as a sign between me and them, that they might know that I am the LORD who sanctifies them.
First, I wonder why Jesus only mentioned 6 of the commandments? Second, He was talking to those who were still under the old law. He had not died and nailed the old law to the cross yet.
mzjamiedawn,
Would you please explain what you mean by the words the 'old law.' I ask because Jesus only nailed the hand written ordinaces of the law to the cross. That would be the blood ordinaces. Those He fulfilled...He didn't nail the commandments to the cross. Those we still obey...do not kill, do not steal, etc etc..
Col 2:14 Blotting out the handwriting of ordinances that was against us, which was contrary to us, and took it out of the way, nailing it to his cross.
03-07-2009, 08:35 PM
2K5Gx2km
n/a posts
This definition, from the Kupp archives, is a strawman.
antinomian, (from Greek anti=against and nomos=law)
"One who holds that, under the gospel dispensation, the moral law is of no use or obligation, faith alone being
necessary to salvation." (Webster's Collegiate)
The highlighted section gives the impresion that Christians who do not have works of the law as a means to salvation believe that there is no value in the law or that we are not obligated to keep it. One could well hold to the fact that the law is good if one uses it lawfully (I Tim.1:5-11) or that it is a schoolmaster (Gal.3:16-25) or that it is right, good, and just and to reflect God's standards but not hold to the idea that it is necessary for justification, santification, or glorification which in thier totality and completion = Salvation.
Gal.3:15-25:
Brethren, I speak in the manner of men: Though it is only a man’s covenant, yet if it is confirmed, no one annuls or adds to it. 16 Now to Abraham and his Seed were the promises made. He does not say, “And to seeds,” as of many, but as of one, “And to your Seed,”who is Christ. 17 And this I say, thatthe law, which was four hundred and thirty years later, cannot annul the covenant that was confirmed before by God in Christ, that it should make the promise of no effect. 18 For if the inheritance is of the law, it is no longer of promise; but God gave it to Abraham by promise. 19 What purpose then does the law serve? It was added because of transgressions, till the Seed should come to whom the promise was made; and it was appointed through angels by the hand of a mediator. 20 Now a mediator does not mediate for one only, but God is one.
21 Is the law then against the promises of God? Certainly not! For if there had been a law given which could have given life, truly righteousness would have been by the law. 22 But the Scripture has confined all under sin, that the promise by faith in Jesus Christ might be given to those who believe. 23 But before faith came, we were kept under guard by the law, kept for the faith which would afterward be revealed. 24 Therefore the law was our tutor to bring us to Christ, that we might be justified by faith. 25 But after faith has come, we are no longer under a tutor.
Gal.3:10-14:
For as many as are of the works of the law[thats the Kupps] are under the curse; for it is written, “Cursediseveryone who does not continue in all things which are written in the book of the law, to do them.” 11 But that no one is justified by the law in the sight of God is evident, for “the just shall live by faith.” 12 Yet the law is not of faith, but “the man who does them shall live by them.” [Good luck when you stand before God and try to convince Him of that] 13 Christ has redeemed us from the curse of the law, [by trying to put yourself under the law for salvation you put youself back under the curse]having become a curse for us (for it is written, “Cursediseveryone who hangs on a tree”), 14 that the blessing of Abraham might come upon the Gentiles in Christ Jesus, that we might receive the promise of the Spirit through faith. Oh and once you have the Spirit it is a done deal buddy. The life that we now live is by fsith not works - see Gal. 2:19-21,
For I through the law died to the law that I might live to God. 20 I have been crucified with Christ; it is no longer I who live, but Christ lives in me; and the life which I now live in the flesh I live by faith in the Son of God, who loved me and gave Himself for me. 21 I do not set aside the grace of God; for if righteousness comes through the law, then Christ died in vain.”
Harolds formula is Christ's righteousness + Harold's righteousness = Salvation. Wrong. Christ did not die in order to give us the Spirit so that we could then keep the Law and earn Salvation or any aspect of it - justification, santification, and glorification.
Now that does not mean that the law is not usefull or somthing that we should keep but it is not meant to gain or be a neans of any aspect of salvation. The antinomian definition is bogus.
Harold your reference to Matt.19:17 is once again out of context and void of Jesus' intent in saying that. See verse 25-26 - He says it is impossible. Question how did God make it possible that men might be saved. Well Read Galations and you will see. If Jesus thought men could keep the law (prior to his death and resurrection) why did he even come? Why not just let those who keep the law be the ones to enter into eternal life? Oh that brings us back to Harold's formula - Christ's righteousness + Harold's righteousness = Salvation. Why do think Jesus used the law? Because as noted earlier He used it lawfully in order to point out the mans failure in it (Rom.3:21-22) thereby drawing him to Christ and his purpose but the man failed to see that truth - kinda like Harold.
Rom.3:21-31:
But now the righteousness of God apart from the law is revealed, being witnessed by the Law and the Prophets, 22 even the righteousness of God, through faith in Jesus Christ, to all and on all who believe. For there is no difference; 23 for all have sinned and fall short of the glory of God, 24 being justified freely by His grace through the redemption that is in Christ Jesus, 25 whom God set forth as a propitiation by His blood, through faith, to demonstrate His righteousness, because in His forbearance God had passed over the sins that were previously committed, 26 to demonstrate at the present time His righteousness, that He might be just and the justifier of the one who has faith in Jesus.27 Where is boasting then? It is excluded. By what law? Of works? No, but by the law of faith. 28 Therefore we conclude that a man is justified by faith apart from the deeds of the law. 29 Or is He the God of the Jews only? Is He not also the God of the Gentiles? Yes, of the Gentiles also, 30 since there is one God who will justify the circumcised by faith and the uncircumcised through faith. 31 Do we then make void the law through faith?Certainly not! On the contrary, we establish the law.
There is no contradiction in holding faith alone as a means of salvation (Eph.2:8-9) and holding to that fact that the law is still good and that we should obey it but not for a means of salvation.
Your definition is a stawman and a false dichotomy.
The rich young ruler is the best example of how one's thinking while here on earth that they are in total, I mean, total compliance with commandments, ordinances, laws, traditions ad nauseum is the best way Jesus knew to throw it back at ya and say,
"THERE IS ONE THING YOU LACK"
I CAN SAY UNEQUIVOCALLY, that if you come to the cross of christ with a chip on your shoulder as the young ruler did, you will go away with head down...gauranteeed!
Would you please explain what you mean by the words the 'old law.' I ask because Jesus only nailed the hand written ordinaces of the law to the cross. That would be the blood ordinaces. Those He fulfilled...He didn't nail the commandments to the cross. Those we still obey...do not kill, do not steal, etc etc..
Col 2:14 Blotting out the handwriting of ordinances that was against us, which was contrary to us, and took it out of the way, nailing it to his cross.
Ok, I'm listening. Explain why you believe it was only the blood ordinances, and not the whole law.
This definition, from the Kupp archives, is a strawman.
antinomian, (from Greek anti=against and nomos=law)
"One who holds that, under the gospel dispensation, the moral law is of no use or obligation, faith alone being
necessary to salvation." (Webster's Collegiate)
The highlighted section gives the impresion that Christians who do not have works of the law as a means to salvation believe that there is no value in the law or that we are not obligated to keep it. One could well hold to the fact that the law is good if one uses it lawfully (I Tim.1:5-11) or that it is a schoolmaster (Gal.3:16-25) or that it is right, good, and just and to reflect God's standards but not hold to the idea that it is necessary for justification, santification, or glorification which in thier totality and completion = Salvation.
Gal.3:15-25:
Brethren, I speak in the manner of men: Though it is only a man’s covenant, yet if it is confirmed, no one annuls or adds to it. 16 Now to Abraham and his Seed were the promises made. He does not say, “And to seeds,” as of many, but as of one, “And to your Seed,”who is Christ. 17 And this I say, thatthe law, which was four hundred and thirty years later, cannot annul the covenant that was confirmed before by God in Christ, that it should make the promise of no effect. 18 For if the inheritance is of the law, it is no longer of promise; but God gave it to Abraham by promise. 19 What purpose then does the law serve? It was added because of transgressions, till the Seed should come to whom the promise was made; and it was appointed through angels by the hand of a mediator. 20 Now a mediator does not mediate for one only, but God is one.
21 Is the law then against the promises of God? Certainly not! For if there had been a law given which could have given life, truly righteousness would have been by the law. 22 But the Scripture has confined all under sin, that the promise by faith in Jesus Christ might be given to those who believe. 23 But before faith came, we were kept under guard by the law, kept for the faith which would afterward be revealed. 24 Therefore the law was our tutor to bring us to Christ, that we might be justified by faith. 25 But after faith has come, we are no longer under a tutor.
Gal.3:10-14:
For as many as are of the works of the law[thats the Kupps] are under the curse; for it is written, “Cursediseveryone who does not continue in all things which are written in the book of the law, to do them.” 11 But that no one is justified by the law in the sight of God is evident, for “the just shall live by faith.” 12 Yet the law is not of faith, but “the man who does them shall live by them.” [Good luck when you stand before God and try to convince Him of that]
13 Christ has redeemed us from the curse of the law, [by trying to put yourself under the law for salvation you put youself back under the curse]having become a curse for us (for it is written, “Cursediseveryone who hangs on a tree”), 14 that the blessing of Abraham might come upon the Gentiles in Christ Jesus, that we might receive the promise of the Spirit through faith. Oh and once you have the Spirit it is a done deal buddy. The life that we now live is by fsith not works - see Gal. 2:19-21,
For I through the law died to the law that I might live to God. 20 I have been crucified with Christ; it is no longer I who live, but Christ lives in me; and the life which I now live in the flesh I live by faith in the Son of God, who loved me and gave Himself for me. 21 I do not set aside the grace of God; for if righteousness comes through the law, then Christ died in vain.”
Harolds formula is Christ's righteousness + Harold's righteousness = Salvation. Wrong. Christ did not die in order to give us the Spirit so that we could then keep the Law and earn Salvation or any aspect of it - justification, santification, and glorification.
Now that does not mean that the law is not usefull or somthing that we should keep but it is not meant to gain or be a neans of any aspect of salvation. The antinomian definition is bogus.
Harold your reference to Matt.19:17 is once again out of context and void of Jesus' intent in saying that. See verse 25-26 - He says it is impossible. Question how did God make it possible that men might be saved. Well Read Galations and you will see. If Jesus thought men could keep the law (prior to his death and resurrection) why did he even come? Why not just let those who keep the law be the ones to enter into eternal life? Oh that brings us back to Harold's formula - Christ's righteousness + Harold's righteousness = Salvation. Why do think Jesus used the law? Because as noted earlier He used it lawfully in order to point out the mans failure in it (Rom.3:21-22) thereby drawing him to Christ and his purpose but the man failed to see that truth - kinda like Harold.
Rom.3:21-31:
But now the righteousness of God apart from the law is revealed, being witnessed by the Law and the Prophets, 22 even the righteousness of God, through faith in Jesus Christ, to all and on all who believe. For there is no difference; 23 for all have sinned and fall short of the glory of God, 24 being justified freely by His grace through the redemption that is in Christ Jesus, 25 whom God set forth as a propitiation by His blood, through faith, to demonstrate His righteousness, because in His forbearance God had passed over the sins that were previously committed, 26 to demonstrate at the present time His righteousness, that He might be just and the justifier of the one who has faith in Jesus.27 Where is boasting then? It is excluded. By what law? Of works? No, but by the law of faith. 28 Therefore we conclude that a man is justified by faith apart from the deeds of the law. 29 Or is He the God of the Jews only? Is He not also the God of the Gentiles? Yes, of the Gentiles also, 30 since there is one God who will justify the circumcised by faith and the uncircumcised through faith. 31 Do we then make void the law through faith?Certainly not! On the contrary, we establish the law.
There is no contradiction in holding faith alone as a means of salvation (Eph.2:8-9) and holding to that fact that the law is still good and that we should obey it but not for a means of salvation.
Your definition is a stawman and a false dichotomy.
"Little children, let no man deceive you: he that doeth righteousness is righteous, even as he is righteous." 1 John 3:7
"In this the children of God are manifest, and the children of the devil: whosoever doeth not righteousness is not of God, neither he that loveth not his brother." 1 John 3:10
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