Please register to participate in our discussions with 2 million other members - it's free and quick! Some forums can only be seen by registered members. After you create your account, you'll be able to customize options and access all our 15,000 new posts/day with fewer ads.
I'll tell you about church buildings.. Our church built a new 12 million temple I call it. in the middle of downtown. kept the old one because the older folks liked it and they're wealthy contributors of this presbyterian church. then they had to remodel the old church and tune the old pipe organ at a cost of 65,000. remodel took 1.5 million.
the result: high attrition, the seeker service was abandoned. the chruch pastor was just removed by the session. Their printing budget would have been a cherry account for me when I sold color printing.
the campaigns to pledge money, tithe, tithe more so we could move "one step closer to God" was the straw.
Sacrificial giving outlined in mark 12:41 is the standard Jesus taught from yet some new guy on here called BigNebula is teaching that Jesus commended the Pharisees in Luke 18 for tithing. I asked him how do you get a compliment out of "Woe to you"? no answer yet.
So, yes, if you want pure and undefiled religion: take care of the widows and orphans. give mercy and not sacrifice as Jesus said to do.
I see this as another one of Jesus many "commands" he spoke of , not just the ones Moses gave as God's agent for distribution.
Church buildings. Are they NT Biblical? I can't find anything like it anywhere...everyone met in homes. Is it right to call a building church? House of God? Etc? Are we putting a building in the position of reverence?
Great topic, SW.
A few thoughts
What most people experience when they experience "church" is a far cry from the Church of the NT.
Are church buildings right? No. Are church buildings wrong? No. BUT if my "church experience" is limited to "one-day a week sitting in the pew" then something is missing. On the other hand, if I experience "church" (not meaning "building") throughout the week, and I do gather on Sundays as a part of that, with the Sunday meeting being only an edifying addition to a whole experience, then a building isn't necessarily wrong. Where is our focus?
Having too much "reverence" for the building does misplace our focus. We are no longer in the OT where God dwelt in a building.
Good post as usual Cg..People thinking they have to have a big beautiful building for God sometimes bring back and enforce the ot law of tithe to keep the building up..However they seem to only want the "cash tithe" The new testament teaches "giving cheerfully"
Well that is a different thread..
Just giving an example about paying too much attention to a building
our church is in debt 1.8 million after the 12 million spent and the pressure to pay this off and the high attrition caused the session to 'fire" the pastor for leading the charge.
of the 13.75 million spent , not one soul was saved...what a waste.
our church is in debt 1.8 million after the 12 million spent and the pressure to pay this off and the high attrition caused the session to 'fire" the pastor for leading the charge.
of the 13.75 million spent , not one soul was saved...what a waste.
Not only the souls that may have been lost... but the hungry, homeless, lonely, etc. people who they could have ministered to in a thousand ways with that tremendous building fund
Habitat for Humanity is a great 'Building fund" for any congregation to donate time and money to..I imagine some churches do that
I live in a rurual area and my local Catholic Church began by renting space in our local high school when members of a larger more urban Church saw the need for a congregation in this area.
They eventually grew and were able to build a modest sanctuary.
As time went on, they built administrative offices and recently completed an elementary school with plans to expand as the student body increases.
There are now a couple thousand families who support the growing community and each other in many ways
It all started in a rented school room, and grew slowly as the need increased.
I think men sometimes get misdirected even as pastors. Not knocking wealth, but these committees that drive these decisions get caught up in opulence and regrettably things that moths and rust can destroy.
a replacement organ or key board with all the trimmings could have been bought for less than 10k , but somebody said, " what a shame to get rid of the beautiful organ that makes such beautiful sounds of priase to our Lord... that kind of thinking is what did it. motion to spend 65k to reutne the pipe organ carries...
Please register to post and access all features of our very popular forum. It is free and quick. Over $68,000 in prizes has already been given out to active posters on our forum. Additional giveaways are planned.
Detailed information about all U.S. cities, counties, and zip codes on our site: City-data.com.
Please register to participate in our discussions with 2 million other members - it's free and quick! Some forums can only be seen by registered members. After you create your account, you'll be able to customize options and access all our 15,000 new posts/day with fewer ads.
