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You refer to it as "New Age" in a way to dismiss it and turn it into some goofy "other". But what we are referring to here as "contemplative spirituality" echoes ageless wisdom that transcends all spiritual and scientific paths. In time, I suspect these wisdoms will be proven by science.
Science has already proven what Bluefly is suspecting.
All debating is futile. No one ever changes their minds. This entire thread is a waste of time, but sometimes we all like to waste our time.
Hardly a waste of time as CSM plays an important role in the Emergent Church. The more contemplative one gets, the less they need the Bible, and some go as far as largely rejecting the Bible.
The thing is Bluefly, these are indeed false teachings as they do not line up with the Word of God, and that's the whole point! None of my posts are an attack on you, but it's an attack on the belief system. I would love for you to understand the errors, and I pray that will be so. The reason why your beliefs are wrong is because they go against everything in Scripture. Like I said before, a Sovereign God would not have given us a written word that was full of man-made lies. We might as well not believe in Him at all if that were so. God is a jealous God and no other god should be worshiped before Him, and that includes Allah!
I believe your eschatalogical belief system is not compatible with Biblical teaching. Nowhere in scriptures is it argued that Christians will not face tribulation. This along with the dubious concept of rapture are a modern fabrication (late 19th century) that grew out of American sociological conditions. The most commonly quoted passages that are used to support the rapture are taken out of context and show absolutely no understanding of the Jewish apocalypticism that Jesus was part of. As for Allah, I believe that is simply Arabic for God. If the only name for God that is allowed is one in English then that leaves out a lot of believers. So much for YHWH. Finally I believe this all started with a rant about contemplative approaches to faith. That is interesting because we would not have the Bible were it not for contemplatives. The codex and other parchments were preserved by the desert fathers, contemplatives who kept the Holy word safe when civilization was crumbling. Having said all of that I could get with you in a heart beat about Oprah, religious fads and the dumming down of the faith but first you need to do a little more homework or no one will take you seriously.
I believe your eschatalogical belief system is not compatible with Biblical teaching. Nowhere in scriptures is it argued that Christians will not face tribulation. This along with the dubious concept of rapture are a modern fabrication (late 19th century) that grew out of American sociological conditions. The most commonly quoted passages that are used to support the rapture are taken out of context and show absolutely no understanding of the Jewish apocalypticism that Jesus was part of. As for Allah, I believe that is simply Arabic for God. If the only name for God that is allowed is one in English then that leaves out a lot of believers. So much for YHWH. Finally I believe this all started with a rant about contemplative approaches to faith. That is interesting because we would not have the Bible were it not for contemplatives. The codex and other parchments were preserved by the desert fathers, contemplatives who kept the Holy word safe when civilization was crumbling. Having said all of that I could get with you in a heart beat about Oprah, religious fads and the dumming down of the faith but first you need to do a little more homework or no one will take you seriously.
You are completely off-topic with your rant above. Secondly, did you even bother to read #312-315? There's your research.
Science has proven that there is a connection to God within the brain of mankind, that man is wired to God. They also show what happens to the brain when one is meditating. They show what happens in prayer, same thing, that is if the prayer is deep enough and long enough. They show how mystics are not deranged people but are happy and content in life. they actually show within the brain what happens when man unites with God. The book is titled, Why God Won't Go Away. There are a lot of studies going on in regards to this.
What do you think is happening with people who almost die but in their Near Death Experiences they are visited by God or Christ and are enveloped in love? Do you think that this is different somehow? Or is it of Satan?
That literalists and fundamentalists are hanging on to an immature, primitive understanding of God and Christ's teaching and example in fear and ignorance . . . instead of embracing the truth of God working in the world to enlighten them and free them from fear through love of God and each other.
Hardly a waste of time as CSM plays an important role in the Emergent Church. The more contemplative one gets, the less they need the Bible, and some go as far as largely rejecting the Bible.
It is a waste of time because no one changes. No one begins to think like you, and you and others do not begin to think like the mystics.
The only reason why some contemplative people toss out the Bible is because there are so many discreptancies in it that these people don't believe in the Bible as being the word of God anymore. Plus the myths, etc. But this doesn't mean that people don't believe in God, but it can mean for many that the beliefs in the myths surrounding Christ are not accepted, and this includes the fact that pagan christs existed before him and were said to be Gods and were cruxified on a cross and said to have died for people's sins.
So while I love God very much due to having my own experience of this God of Love, I can't accept the Bible as truths. I don't judge you for believing in the Bible, and I would never tell you that you were going to hell if you didn't believe in the Bible or in Christ. I think God is bigger than the Bible, much bigger, and his love is so grand that he is saving all of mankind. I don't even think that you can change your own views, but this is just me saying what I feel. You also have the right to your beliefs, but when it comes to telling people that they are not saved, etc. then I think your beliefs impinge upon the rights of others, and are not based in love but fear. Why would anyone want to become a Christian because if they didn't they would go to hell? That is blackmail and based on fear.
You said you didn't think that meditation had existed for thousands of years. Well, Buddha meditated and became enlightened, and this was 500 years before Christ. Christ's teachings are in Buddha's teachings. They can be compared in a large book titled,
Quote:
The Original Jesus
, the scriptures can be easily compared because they show them side by side in the book.
The Hindus have been meditating long before Buddha, in fact, Buddha was a Hindu first and learned meditation from Hindu yogis.
You also accused me of being a liar by saying that I conveniently didn't quote all the scriptures when I said that the kingdom was within or among us. I am not sure about the remaining verses, but they seem to contradict what Christ was saying when he said it was not out there, that it was among us or as other Bibles may say, within. Anyway, I had not read the rest.
But when you meditate and become one with God, in union with God, you are in the kingdom of God. The peace and love that you experience is beyond any love experienced on this earth. It changes you for the better. You begin to love all people unconditionally. You realize that there is nothing on this earth in man's short lifespan that can cause this God of Love to condemn them to a burning hell forever. It isn't within God to do this; it isn't within his mind, because God is Love. Nothing more; nothing less. But of course some of this experience fades in time, yet people who have had these experiences even without meditating remember and think about them all their lives.
I would suggest a good book on the brain and God,
Quote:
Why God Won't Go Away
, but I know that your mind is closed, and so you won't read it.
I have yet to hear anything in the criticism of contemplative Christianity that I haven't heard before. I remain unconvinced. I noticed earlier in the thread a reference to Lectio Divina. I am baffled at why reading and meditating on the word of God would be dangerous. Out of this ancient practice grew the tradition of a priesthood of believers, that we don't need a pope or spiritual guru to interpret for us but we each can read the word and with the inspiration of the Holy Spirit have truth revealed. Trust me, since I taught Bible in college years ago I know that it is easy for any of us to misread scripture. But as dangerous as that might be it pales compared to the danger of thinking that there is one iron-clad dogmatic interpretation that makes everyone else wrong. Again, we would not even have the scriptures if not for contemplative Christianity. Simply calling that a rant is not an effective argument and weakens your case substantially.
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