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Old 03-10-2009, 02:57 PM
 
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Quote:
Originally Posted by cg81 View Post
Living faith brings about works or deeds... so in other words, if they didn't live by His sayings, they did not have living faith. (faith without works is dead)

What are His sayings? "I am the bread of Life.. no man comes to the Father but by me."

We must have faith in God to keep His sayings.
Matthew 7:16 Ye shall know them by their fruits. Do men gather grapes of thorns, or figs of thistles?
17 Even so every good tree bringeth forth good fruit; but a corrupt tree bringeth forth evil fruit.
18 A good tree cannot bring forth evil fruit, neither can a corrupt tree bring forth good fruit.
19 Every tree that bringeth not forth good fruit is hewn down, and cast into the fire.
20 Wherefore by their fruits ye shall know them.
A corrupt tree cannot bring forth good fruit, and we are all corrupt trees.. so we must be renewed in order to bring forth good fruit. We cannot renew ourself.. we become new by repentance thru faith in Jesus' sacrifice for our sins.
21 ¶ Not every one that saith unto me, Lord, Lord, shall enter into the kingdom of heaven; but he that doeth the will of my Father which is in heaven.
22 Many will say to me in that day, Lord, Lord, have we not prophesied in thy name? and in thy name have cast out devils? and in thy name done many wonderful works?
23 And then will I profess unto them, I never knew you: depart from me, ye that work iniquity.
What is the will of the Father? That all repent and accept the sacrifice for our salvation. If we neglect this we cannot hope to be saved no matter how many good works we do, for they are not works born of faith.

Sorry, cg81...It must be me...I just don't see what you're getting at? In Matthew chapters 5,6, and 7 Jesus told his followers how to live...

16 Ye shall know them by their fruits. Do men gather grapes of thorns, or figs of thistles?

17 Even so every good tree bringeth forth good fruit; but a corrupt tree bringeth forth evil fruit.

18 A good tree cannot bring forth evil fruit, neither can a corrupt tree bring forth good fruit.

19 Every tree that bringeth not forth good fruit is hewn down, and cast into the fire.

20 Wherefore by their fruits ye shall know them.

21 ¶ Not every one that saith unto me, Lord, Lord, shall enter into the kingdom of heaven; but he that doeth the will of my Father which is in heaven.

22 Many will say to me in that day, Lord, Lord, have we not prophesied in thy name? and in thy name have cast out devils? and in thy name done many wonderful works?

and then ended it by saying...

24 Therefore whosoever heareth these sayings of mine, and doeth them, I will liken him unto a wise man, which built his house upon a rock:

25 And the rain descended, and the floods came, and the winds blew, and beat upon that house; and it fell not: for it was founded upon a rock.

26 And every one that heareth these sayings of mine, and doeth them not, shall be likened unto a foolish man, which built his house upon the sand:

27 And the rain descended, and the floods came, and the winds blew, and beat upon that house; and it fell: and great was the fall of it.

All I see is people who did't live by His sayings and Him saying, "I never knew you."

Anyway, I agree we need faith. I just don't think there's any such thing as 'living faith' because then there would have to be 'dead faith,' and Jesus said all we need is faith the size of a mustard seed to move mountains.

Maybe we're taking oranges and apples here?

Not trying to say you're wrong. Just saying I don't get it?

So let's just agree to disagree.

Edited to add...note in v. 22 it says, "in that day"...that's speaking of a specific day...the day of His return, so He's speaking of people that didn't live His sayings during the tribulation so that narrows it down to a specific people.
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Old 03-10-2009, 03:14 PM
 
3,086 posts, read 6,272,535 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by mshipmate View Post
Anyway, I agree we need faith. I just don't think there's any such thing as 'living faith' because then there would have to be 'dead faith,'
There is a dead faith..
James 2:17 Even so faith, if it hath not works, is dead, being alone.
18 Yea, a man may say, Thou hast faith, and I have works: shew me thy faith without thy works, and I will shew thee my faith by my works.

..........
20 But wilt thou know, O vain man, that faith without works is dead?
........
26 For as the body without the spirit is dead, so faith without works is dead also.
Quote:
Edited to add...note in v. 22 it says, "in that day"...that's speaking of a specific day...the day of His return.
I agree that "in that day" is referring to the judgment on the day of His return.
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Old 03-10-2009, 03:14 PM
 
Location: Cornelius
3,662 posts, read 9,668,187 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by mshipmate View Post
Sorry, cg81...It must be me...I just don't see what you're getting at? In Matthew chapters 5,6, and 7 Jesus told his followers how to live...

16 Ye shall know them by their fruits. Do men gather grapes of thorns, or figs of thistles?

17 Even so every good tree bringeth forth good fruit; but a corrupt tree bringeth forth evil fruit.

18 A good tree cannot bring forth evil fruit, neither can a corrupt tree bring forth good fruit.

19 Every tree that bringeth not forth good fruit is hewn down, and cast into the fire.

20 Wherefore by their fruits ye shall know them.

21 ¶ Not every one that saith unto me, Lord, Lord, shall enter into the kingdom of heaven; but he that doeth the will of my Father which is in heaven.

22 Many will say to me in that day, Lord, Lord, have we not prophesied in thy name? and in thy name have cast out devils? and in thy name done many wonderful works?

and then ended it by saying...

24 Therefore whosoever heareth these sayings of mine, and doeth them, I will liken him unto a wise man, which built his house upon a rock:

25 And the rain descended, and the floods came, and the winds blew, and beat upon that house; and it fell not: for it was founded upon a rock.

26 And every one that heareth these sayings of mine, and doeth them not, shall be likened unto a foolish man, which built his house upon the sand:

27 And the rain descended, and the floods came, and the winds blew, and beat upon that house; and it fell: and great was the fall of it.

All I see is people who did't live by His sayings and Him saying, "I never knew you."

Anyway, I agree we need faith. I just don't think there's any such thing as 'living faith' because then there would have to be 'dead faith,' and Jesus said all we need is faith the size of a mustard seed to move mountains.

Maybe we're taking oranges and apples here?

Not trying to say you're wrong. Just saying I don't get it?

So let's just agree to disagree.

Edited to add...note in v. 22 it says, "in that day"...that's speaking of a specific day...the day of His return, so He's speaking of people that didn't live His sayings during the tribulation so that narrows it down to a specific people.
hhmmm....the way I see it is that if you are born again, you will naturally and by default produce good fruit. If your fruit is evil, then you are not born again.

Or, let's look at it like this: a born again Christian will bear good fruit by default. If you are a Christian, you will perform good works. But performing good works does not make you a Christian. Does that help?
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Old 03-10-2009, 03:18 PM
 
Location: NW Arkansas
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I am wondering...do you all equate obedience to works??
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Old 03-10-2009, 03:30 PM
 
3,086 posts, read 6,272,535 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Towhee View Post
I am wondering...do you all equate obedience to works??
Obedience to God is certainly a work of faith.
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Old 03-10-2009, 03:47 PM
 
Location: Pilot Point, TX
7,874 posts, read 14,179,752 times
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But trusting in Him without an abundance of fruit - rest?
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Old 03-10-2009, 03:51 PM
 
Location: NW Arkansas
3,978 posts, read 8,550,032 times
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Do you all think a person can be saved without obedience?
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Old 03-10-2009, 04:02 PM
 
3,086 posts, read 6,272,535 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Towhee View Post
Do you all think a person can be saved without obedience?
Well, no one can be saved without faith, that's for sure.

"For without faith it is impossible to please him" Hebrews 11:6a


This faith, a gift of God, moves us to obedient action.
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Old 03-10-2009, 04:05 PM
 
3,086 posts, read 6,272,535 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by little elmer View Post
But trusting in Him without an abundance of fruit - rest?
As long as we're not resting in our house on the sand!

But excusing our lack of fruit is never a good thing...

Fruit doesn't lie.
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Old 03-10-2009, 04:09 PM
 
1,534 posts, read 1,990,905 times
Reputation: 271
Quote:
Originally Posted by carolina_guy View Post
hhmmm....the way I see it is that if you are born again, you will naturally and by default produce good fruit. If your fruit is evil, then you are not born again.

Or, let's look at it like this: a born again Christian will bear good fruit by default. If you are a Christian, you will perform good works. But performing good works does not make you a Christian. Does that help?

carolina_guy,
Thanks for your reply. ..I guess now it's my turn to say I didn't come across clearly as to what I was saying...

I wasn't speaking of not knowing who or what good works are, or who would do them.

I was speaking of who Christ will say, "I never knew you," to.

He isn't going to say that to just 'anybody. It's a specific people at a specific time; His return. So that means these people have done something, during the tribulation, that caused Christ to say that to them, and not necessarily had anything to do with living faith or dead faith.

Does that make more sense? I hope so...
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