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You lack any discernment at all about the issue. The RELIGION (supposedly words direct from ALLAH) demands death for apostasy and rejection of ALLAH. I repeat . . . what kind of GOD would require people ( who He gives free will) to be forced into accepting Him or DEMAND that they be killed? The Christian God I believe in DEMANDS nothing . . . doesn't punish, and has provided His children with His presence as a teacher, example, instructions and guidelines that will lead us to a successful spiritual rebirth and eternal life. WE retain our free will to choose up to the end of our physical life. What happens after that is a natural consequence of our success or failure . . . no Godly decision or punishment involved. I am sorry so many of my brothers and sisters in Christ are misguided about God's motives. God only wants to help us succeed . . . not punish . . . it is OUR choice.
If the religion demands death for rejection of Allah then why not more murders here? The Christian God certainly does demand something. The Christian God ultimately demands you believe in him or you will die for inifinity. Yes its a choice.. I understand that but to say the Christian God doesn't demand anything is .. well wrong.
But back to the "death penalty" question..
I took this from a non-crazy site.
Do with it what you will:
Muslims who support the death penalty for apostasy often base their belief partly on a hadith in which he said: "Kill whoever changes his religion." But this is a weak foundation because: This hadith was only transmitted from Muhammad (pbuh) by one individual. It was not confirmed by a second person. According to Islamic law, this is insufficient basis on which to impose the death penalty.
The hadith is so generally worded that it would require the death penalty for a Christian or Jew who converted to Islam. This is obviously not the prophet's intent. The hadith is in need of further specification, which has not been documented.
Many scholars interpret this passage as referring only to instances of high treason. (e.g. declaring war on Islam, Muhammad (pbuh), God, etc.)
There is no historical record which indicates that Muhammad (pbuh) or any of his companions ever sentenced anyone to death for apostasy.
A number of Islamic scholars from past centuries, Ibrahim al-Naka'I, Sufyan al-Thawri, Shams al-Din al-Sarakhsi, Abul Walid al-Baji and Ibn Taymiyyah, have all held that apostasy is a serious sin, but not one that requires the death penalty. In modern times, Mahmud Shaltut, Sheikh of al-Azhar, and Dr Mohammed Sayed Tantawi have concurred.
If the religion demands death for rejection of Allah then why not more murders here? The Christian God certainly does demand something. The Christian God ultimately demands you believe in him or you will die for inifinity. Yes its a choice.. I understand that but to say the Christian God doesn't demand anything is .. well wrong.
But back to the "death penalty" question..
I took this from a non-crazy site.
Do with it what you will:
Muslims who support the death penalty for apostasy often base their belief partly on a hadith in which he said: "Kill whoever changes his religion." But this is a weak foundation because:
This hadith was only transmitted from Muhammad (pbuh) by one individual. It was not confirmed by a second person. According to Islamic law, this is insufficient basis on which to impose the death penalty.
The hadith is so generally worded that it would require the death penalty for a Christian or Jew who converted to Islam. This is obviously not the prophet's intent. The hadith is in need of further specification, which has not been documented.
Many scholars interpret this passage as referring only to instances of high treason. (e.g. declaring war on Islam, Muhammad (pbuh), God, etc.)
There is no historical record which indicates that Muhammad (pbuh) or any of his companions ever sentenced anyone to death for apostasy.
A number of Islamic scholars from past centuries, Ibrahim al-Naka'I, Sufyan al-Thawri, Shams al-Din al-Sarakhsi, Abul Walid al-Baji and Ibn Taymiyyah, have all held that apostasy is a serious sin, but not one that requires the death penalty. In modern times, Mahmud Shaltut, Sheikh of al-Azhar, and Dr Mohammed Sayed Tantawi have concurred.
Sssssslllllllliiiiiiiiiiiiigggggggghhhhhhhhhtttttt tttllllllllllyyyyyyyyyyyyy different. Those are theocracies I mentioned. Fred Phelps is one man of one church and has no legal authority.
Sssssslllllllliiiiiiiiiiiiigggggggghhhhhhhhhtttttt tttllllllllllyyyyyyyyyyyyy different. Those are theocracies I mentioned. Fred Phelps is one man of one church and has no legal authority.
I'm betting Mr. Phelps feels as though he has legal authority. Is your question now concerning the politics of a muslim state and what is wrong with that? If so that is completely different than the original statement.
You are switching back and forth.. pick an argument son.
So does the Pope speak for you?
How this is so hard to understand for you is really beyond me.
The logic of stating that a group of believers actions invalidate the existence of a deity verges on being retarded.
If the religion demands death for rejection of Allah then why not more murders here? The Christian God certainly does demand something. The Christian God ultimately demands you believe in him or you will die for inifinity. Yes its a choice.. I understand that but to say the Christian God doesn't demand anything is .. well wrong.
Are you suggesting that if you willingly step off the top of a twelve story building . . . God is DEMANDING that you fall to your death?
Quote:
amazing how again it comes down to interpretation...
Are you suggesting that if you willingly step off the top of a twelve story building . . . God is DEMANDING that you fall to your death?ALWAYS! A reality too easily dismissed.
I'm not suggesting that at all and you know it.
In order to "live in heaven" or "live forever" etc etc the Christian God requires an acceptance.
Good works without acceptance won't get you in. You could be Superman and save 1 million people from something horrible.. you could feed homeless people every single day of your life.. you could lead the most pious person towards mankind.. and yet.. if you didn't accept Jesus then you wouldn't be getting into heaven right?
so.. God demands acceptance for your eternal salvation with the threat of eternal death.
mystic its been fun.. but you know my argument as I've stated it many times. Judging a deity.. any deity based on the actions of its followers is not only reckless but its stupid.
Unless you have more to add to that facet of the argument (which is.. the only thing I'm arguing) then I'll bid this conversation.. goodbye.
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This hadith was only transmitted from Muhammad (pbuh) by one individual. It was not confirmed by a second person. According to Islamic law, this is insufficient basis on which to impose the death penalty.
