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lol...that's not how you asked it the 1st, 2nd, or 3rd time.
If Rick Warren preached the true Gospel to them, then yes they are saved. If he preaches his social gospel of good works, and stimulates (by the Holy Spirit) no reaction in the Muslim to realize he is a sinner, repent and confess his sins, ask forgiveness, and believe Jesus of the Bible is the true and only Jesus who is the Son of God who died and rose again, then the Muslim would not be saved.
Is that better?
so really you are happy with millions of muslims turning to Christ.. IF done in a fashion that you deem the correct way right?
so really you are happy with millions of muslims turning to Christ.. IF done in a fashion that you deem the correct way right?
I appreciate your honesty.
Friend, it is not how I deem to be the correct way. It is outlined in Scripture. I am concerned with their salvation only, and there is only one way to achieve salvation through Jesus.
All Scripture is God-breathed and is useful for teaching, rebuking, correcting and training in righteousness,
Proverbs 14:12
There is a way that seems right to a man, but in the end it leads to death.
John 14:6
Jesus answered, I am the way and the truth and the life. No one comes to the Father except through me.
John 3:5-8
Jesus answered, "I tell you the truth, no one can enter the kingdom of God unless he is born of water and the Spirit. Flesh gives birth to flesh, but the Spirit gives birth to spirit. You should not be surprised at my saying, 'You must be born again.' The wind blows wherever it pleases. You hear its sound, but you cannot tell where it comes from or where it is going. So it is with everyone born of the Spirit."
John 3:16-21
"For God so loved the world that he gave his one and only Son, that whoever believes in him shall not perish but have eternal life. For God did not send his Son into the world to condemn the world, but to save the world through him. Whoever believes in him is not condemned, but whoever does not believe stands condemned already because he has not believed in the name of God's one and only Son. This is the verdict: Light has come into the world, but men loved darkness instead of light because their deeds were evil. Everyone who does evil hates the light, and will not come into the light for fear that his deeds will be exposed. But whoever lives by the truth comes into the light, so that it may be seen plainly that what he has done has been done through God."
John 3:31-36
"The one who comes from above is above all; the one who is from the earth belongs to the earth, and speaks as one from the earth. The one who comes from heaven is above all. He testifies to what he has seen and heard, but no one accepts his testimony. The man who has accepted it has certified that God is truthful. For the one whom God has sent speaks the words of God, for God gives the Spirit without limit. The Father loves the Son and has placed everything in his hands. Whoever believes in the Son has eternal life, but whoever rejects the Son will not see life, for God's wrath remains on him."
Luke 13:3-5
I tell you, no! But unless you repent, you too will all perish. Or those eighteen who died when the tower in Siloam fell on them—do you think they were more guilty than all the others living in Jerusalem? I tell you, no! But unless you repent, you too will all perish.
Acts 3:19
Repent, then, and turn to God, so that your sins may be wiped out, that times of refreshing may come from the Lord,
Ephesians 2:8,9
For it is by grace you have been saved, through faith--and this not from yourselves, it is the gift of God--not by works, so that no one can boast.
2 Corinthians 13:5
Examine yourselves to see whether you are in the faith; test yourselves. Do you not realize that Christ Jesus is in you—unless, of course, you fail the test?
Romans 3:10
As it is written, there is none righteous, no, not one.
Romans 3:23
For all have sinned,and come short of the glory of God.
Romans 5:8
But God commends His Love toward us, in that, while we were yet sinners, Jesus Christ died for us.
Romans 5:12
Wherefore, as by one man sin entered into the world, and death by sin; and so death passed upon all men, for that all have sinned.
Romans 6:23
For the wages of sin is death; but the gift of God is eternal life through Jesus Christ our Lord.
Romans 10:9-11
That if you confess with your mouth the Lord Jesus, and believe in your heart that God raised Jesus Christ from the dead, you shall be saved. For with the heart man believeth unto righteousness; and with the mouth confession is made unto salvation. For the scripture says, whosoever believes upon Jesus shall not be ashamed.
Romans 10:13
For whosoever shall call upon the name of the Lord Jesus Christ shall be saved.
Thessalonians 2:16
Our Lord Jesus Christ himself, and God, even our Father ... hath loved us, and hath given us everlasting consolation and good hope through grace.
Romans 15:4
Whatever things were written in earlier times [the Old Testament] were written for our learning, that we, through patience and comfort of the scriptures, might have hope.
Romans 15:13
The God of hope fill you with all joy and peace in believing, that ye may abound in hope, through the power of the Holy Spirit.
Peter 1:3
Blessed be the God and Father of our Lord Jesus Christ, who, according to His abundant mercy, hath begotten us again unto a living hope by the resurrection of Jesus Christ from the dead.
Hebrews 4:16
Let us, therefore, come boldly unto the throne of grace.
Ephesians 5:25-27
Christ also loved the church, and gave himself for it, that he might sanctify and cleanse it with the washing of water by the word; that he might present it to himself a glorious church, not having spot, or wrinkle, or any such thing; but that it should be holy and without blemish.
Colossians 1:22
In the body of his flesh through death, [He died] to present you holy and unblamable and unreprovable in his sight.
1 Thessalonians 3:13
To the end he may establish your hearts unblamable in holiness before God.
1 Thessalonians 5:23
The very God of peace sanctify you wholly; and I pray God your whole spirit and soul and body be preserved blameless unto the coming of our Lord Jesus Christ. Faithful is he that calleth you, who also will do it.
I John 2:29
If ye know that he is righteous, ye know that everyone that doeth righteousness is born of him.
Isaiah 59:2
But your iniquities have separated you from your God; your sins have hidden his face from you, so that he will not hear.
Mark 12:30-31
Love the Lord your God with all your heart and with all your soul and with all your mind and with all your strength. The second is this: Love your neighbor as yourself. There is no commandment greater than these.
1 Timothy 2:5
For there is one God and one mediator between God and men, the man Jesus Christ.
1 Peter 3:18
For Christ died for sins once for all, the righteous for the unrighteous, to bring you to God.
Romans 5:8
But God demonstrates his own love for us in this: While we were still sinners, Jesus Christ died for us.
I John 1:7
If we walk in the Light, as Jesus is in the Light, we have fellowship one with another, for the Blood of Jesus Christ his Son cleans us from all Sin.
Revelation 3:20
Here I am! I stand at the door and knock. If anyone hears my voice and opens the door, I will come in and eat with him, and he with me.
John 1:12
Yet to all who received him, to those who believed in his name, he gave the right to become children of God.
Romans 10:13
Everyone who calls on the name of the Lord will be saved.
Romans 10:9
That if you confess with your mouth, 'Jesus is Lord,' and believe in your heart that God raised Him from the dead, you will be saved.
Matthew 10:32
Whoever acknowledges me before men, I will also acknowledge him before my Father in heaven.
Ephesians 4:14-16
Then we will no longer be infants, tossed back and forth by the waves, and blown here and there by every wind of teaching and by the cunning and craftiness of men in their deceitful scheming. Instead, speaking the truth in love, we will in all things grow up into him who is the Head, that is, Christ. From him the whole body, joined and held together by every supporting ligament, grows and builds itself up in love, as each part does its work.
Friend, it is not how I deem to be the correct way. It is outlined in Scripture. I am concerned with their salvation only, and there is only one way to achieve salvation through Jesus.
Its just an observation..
You (it seems) would rather they stay muslim than have Rick Warren convert them.
You (it seems) would rather they stay muslim than have Rick Warren convert them.
If I'm saying something wrong.. let me know.
You can quote all the scripture you like..
Nope, you're wrong.
What I am saying is, I would love for anyone, Rick Warren included, to bring as many people as possible to Christ. BUT, if they are not presented with the true Gospel and it stimulates no reaction as I explained above (which was in short to the above Scriptures), then they are not saved.
It is not about the messenger, it is about the message!
Even though I believe Rick Warren is an abhorrent teacher and even borders on mysticism in who he associates with or ideas he has adopted such as "spiritual breaths". We must remember that it is not men who save but God and God will save some one in spite of being in a bad church or under bad teaching.
Amen...we left our old church because of a Rick Warren takeover and our pastor watering down his sermons...It's all about numbers with these seeker sensitive churches..Our last Sunday was when the Pastor said, "we as a church, can no longer preach about being washed in the blood" as what are seekers going to know about that? We got up and left and haven't been back...
What I am saying is, I would love for anyone, Rick Warren included, to bring as many people as possible to Christ. BUT, if they are not presented with the true Gospel and it stimulates no reaction as I explained above (which was in short to the above Scriptures), then they are not saved.
It is not about the messenger, it is about the message!
Does that make more sense?
So I've made no assumption that Rick Warren changes his preaching. He goes over there.. he converts (per him) millions to Christianity. You are ok with that as long as later on they go get saved in a manner different than Rick Warren says they are saved?
So I've made no assumption that Rick Warren changes his preaching. He goes over there.. he converts (per him) millions to Christianity. You are ok with that as long as later on they go get saved in a manner different than Rick Warren says they are saved?
Would that be accurate?
lol no. Because it does in fact matter what message is being presented. If his message is not according to the true Gospel, and no one is stimulated because of it, then there has been no conversion. If his message IS according to the true Gospel, and they are stimulated to make a decision to accept Christ, then they are saved. It doesn't matter who the messenger is.
lol no. Because it does in fact matter what message is being presented. If his message is not according to the true Gospel, and no one is stimulated because of it, then there has been no conversion. If his message IS according to the true Gospel, and they are stimulated to make a decision to accept Christ, then they are saved. It doesn't matter who the messenger is.
so you would rather they stay muslim than to ever have been converted by rick warren? if those were the choices..
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