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Old 01-18-2010, 06:58 PM
JS1 JS1 started this thread
 
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"There was no death before the first sin by Adam & Eve" is a useless statement.

The fact that Adam and Eve both sinned means they couldn't have died first.
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Old 01-18-2010, 07:09 PM
 
Location: Somewhere
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Quote:
Originally Posted by JS1 View Post
"There was no death before the first sin by Adam & Eve" is a useless statement.

The fact that Adam and Eve both sinned means they couldn't have died first.
That is valid. Death is the wages of sin. If there is no sin there cannot be death.
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Old 01-18-2010, 07:39 PM
JS1 JS1 started this thread
 
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You missed my point.
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Old 01-18-2010, 07:57 PM
 
Location: Socialist Republik of Amerika
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Quote:
Originally Posted by JS1 View Post
"There was no death before the first sin by Adam & Eve" is a useless statement.

The fact that Adam and Eve both sinned means they couldn't have died first.
Exactly, so why do you think there were earthquakes.

A day to the Lord is a thousand years, and a 1,000 yrs. is a day to the Lord.

Adam and Eve were in the Garden for an hour.. i think have to look it up....

So pardon my math skills, Would it be 41 yrs ?..... i've been on earth close to that many yrs. and have endured dozens of quakes in my lifetime....




godspeed,

freedom
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Old 01-18-2010, 08:05 PM
JS1 JS1 started this thread
 
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Your math skills are off by a factor of 1,000.
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Old 01-18-2010, 08:17 PM
 
Location: Socialist Republik of Amerika
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Originally Posted by JS1 View Post
Your math skills are off by a factor of 1,000.
I tried.

what is the real number?

godspeed,

freedom
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Old 01-18-2010, 09:37 PM
 
Location: Seattle, Wa
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Names in the Bible are not neutral. Adam means "red or earthly". Essau means "hairy". Jacob mean "supplanter". Moses means "drawn out". Jesus' Hebrew name is Joshua, meaniing "he will save his people from their sins". Animals have the same principle, and Adam named them before the fall.

Lion in Hebrew means "violent". Hawk means "tearing" in Hebrew. These meanings show that Adam observed their natural order of operation in which he, and we, are very familiar with. At no time, did Adam experience different physical world than ours we have today. Adam, called his helper, woman, meaning "taken out of man". If this pre-fall name was descriptive, then we have no reason to doubt that the other names of everything else Adam gave them before the fall, as he was instructed, as we have them in Hebrew, passed down from him onto Moses.

Gen 13:10 compares the physical condition of the garden of Eden to the Jordan Valley.

Job 39:13 demonstrates that biological death existed before the fall in the ostrich.

...for God did not endow her with the wisdom or give her a sare of good sense.

I can elborate further.
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Old 01-19-2010, 08:31 AM
 
Location: Socialist Republik of Amerika
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Originally Posted by sciotamicks View Post
Names in the Bible are not neutral. Adam means "red or earthly". Essau means "hairy". Jacob mean "supplanter". Moses means "drawn out". Jesus' Hebrew name is Joshua, meaniing "he will save his people from their sins". Animals have the same principle, and Adam named them before the fall.

Lion in Hebrew means "violent". Hawk means "tearing" in Hebrew. These meanings show that Adam observed their natural order of operation in which he, and we, are very familiar with. At no time, did Adam experience different physical world than ours we have today. Adam, called his helper, woman, meaning "taken out of man". If this pre-fall name was descriptive, then we have no reason to doubt that the other names of everything else Adam gave them before the fall, as he was instructed, as we have them in Hebrew, passed down from him onto Moses.

Gen 13:10 compares the physical condition of the garden of Eden to the Jordan Valley.

Job 39:13 demonstrates that biological death existed before the fall in the ostrich.

...for God did not endow her with the wisdom or give her a sare of good sense.

I can elborate further.
Death entered the world through sin.

The earth was in it's perfected state pre fall, the earth did change, God walked the earth pre fall.

godspeed,

freedom
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Old 01-19-2010, 08:44 AM
 
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Originally Posted by sciotamicks View Post

Gen 13:10 compares the physical condition of the garden of Eden to the Jordan Valley.

Job 39:13 demonstrates that biological death existed before the fall in the ostrich.

...for God did not endow her with the wisdom or give her a sare of good sense.

I can elborate further.
Please expound? and if the death was present before the fall why would God call the creation very good? and what reason would God allow death and suffering in the world if not for the fall?
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Old 01-19-2010, 02:49 PM
 
Location: In God's Hand
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Quote:
Originally Posted by sciotamicks View Post
Job 39:13 demonstrates that biological death existed before the fall in the ostrich.

...for God did not endow her with the wisdom or give her a sare of good sense.

I can elborate further.
Job 39:11Wilt thou trust him, because his strength is great? or wilt thou leave thy labour to him? 12Wilt thou believe him, that he will bring home thy seed, and gather it into thy barn? 13Gavest thou the goodly wings unto the peacocks? or wings and feathers unto the ostrich? 14Which leaveth her eggs in the earth, and warmeth them in dust, 15And forgetteth that the foot may crush them, or that the wild beast may break them.

I do not see any demonstration of biological death before the fall so yeah, you are going to have to demonstrate and elaborate on that more.

Also, do keep in mind that conditions stated now were not the same before the flood.

Herbs were meat for all living things. That means there were no predators before the flood.

Genesis 1: 27So God created man in his own image, in the image of God created he him; male and female created he them. 28And God blessed them, and God said unto them, Be fruitful, and multiply, and replenish the earth, and subdue it: and have dominion over the fish of the sea, and over the fowl of the air, and over every living thing that moveth upon the earth. 29And God said, Behold, I have given you every herb bearing seed, which is upon the face of all the earth, and every tree, in the which is the fruit of a tree yielding seed; to you it shall be for meat. 30And to every beast of the earth, and to every fowl of the air, and to every thing that creepeth upon the earth, wherein there is life, I have given every green herb for meat: and it was so.

Genesis 8: 1And God blessed Noah and his sons, and said unto them, Be fruitful, and multiply, and replenish the earth. 2And the fear of you and the dread of you shall be upon every beast of the earth, and upon every fowl of the air, upon all that moveth upon the earth, and upon all the fishes of the sea; into your hand are they delivered. 3Every moving thing that liveth shall be meat for you; even as the green herb have I given you all things.

So after the fall was death in the world where accidents like someone stepping on the eggs would happen.
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