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So explain it. How is it "necessary" but not "absolutely necessary"? What's the difference?
Uh huh. Anything besides getting wet?
So, is His grace going to save us whether we've been baptized or not (provided we believe in Him, of course)?
Explain what...why Jesus chose to word it they way he did?
"Whoever believes and is baptized will be saved, but whoever does not believe will be condemned."
All I can do is to recommend that you read it until your mind believes your eyes. I can't force anybody to read where baptism is mentioned and connected is with vs. where it's not in the sentence.
Explain what...why Jesus chose to word it they way he did?
No. Explain the difference between something being "necessary" but not "absolutely necessary."
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All I can do is to recommend that you read it until your mind believes your eyes.
I'm starting to think that all you can do is dodge the question.
He who believes and is baptized shall be saved. He who doesn't believed shall be damned. What about he who believes and is not baptized. What's going to happen to him?
No. Explain the difference between something being "necessary" but not "absolutely necessary."
I'm starting to think that all you can do is dodge the question.
He who believes and is baptized shall be saved. He who doesn't believed shall be damned. What about he who believes and is not baptized. What's going to happen to him?
The difference is because that's what Jesus said in Mark 16:16. That is the difference in our approach to Jesus.
Your second question (that is underlined) is answered elsewhere in the Bible. God revealed that personal circumstances and attitude are taken into account when comparing Mark 16:16.
Yes, because before there was a Bible, there was Jesus's Church who's traditions helped to canonize the Bible. His Church, the Catholic Church, believes that baptism is necessary, either by water, blood, or desire. No one even questioned that for over 1500 years. Then Christianty went amok and we have all kinds of opinions. Let us just go back to the source for things like this, shall we.
I think the overwhelming majority of Christians believe that Baptism is necessary for salvation and, as you point out, this has been the tradition in the Christian church for centuries. I did a search about Baptism and found this:
"There are differences in views about the effect of baptism for a Christian. Some Christian groups assert baptism is a requirement for salvation and a sacrament, and speak of "baptismal regeneration". Its importance may be understood by an informed knowledge of their interpretation of the most fundamental and basic meaning of the "Mystical Body of Christ " as found in the New Testament. This view is shared by the Catholic and Eastern Orthodox traditions, and by Churches formed early during the Protestant Reformation such as Lutheran and Anglican". Baptism - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia
These Christian bodies believe the same thing about baptism and represent the majority of Christians based on sheer numbers.
The difference is because that's what Jesus said in Mark 16:16. That is the difference in our approach to Jesus.
Your second question (that is underlined) is answered elsewhere in the Bible. God revealed that personal circumstances and attitude are taken into account when comparing Mark 16:16.
Okay, well if personal circumstances and attitude are taken into account, then clearly baptism is not necessary.
I disagree. (I bet that surprises you, huh?) I don't believe that God would give us a commandment and then provide no way for us to obey it. Furthermore, given the fact that He told us what the consequences for disobedience would be, I don't believe that personal circumstances and attitudes will even enter into it. Of course, since I believe in proxy baptism, there is no dilemma in the first place.
Okay, well if personal circumstances and attitude are taken into account, then clearly baptism is not necessary.
I disagree. (I bet that surprises you, huh?) I don't believe that God would give us a commandment and then provide no way for us to obey it. Furthermore, given the fact that He told us what the consequences for disobedience would be, I don't believe that personal circumstances and attitudes will even enter into it. Of course, since I believe in proxy baptism, there is no dilemma in the first place.
Which is why it's phrased that way ..."necessary but not absolutely necessary".
Christ would disagree with your second paragraph..and I would too.
That paragraph has two dilemma's for you.
1. Proxy baptism is against the Bible
2. "I don't believe that God would give us a commandment and then provide no way for us to obey it."....the perfection command is in the present tense. Why are you not perfect now?
You are to be perfect....not obtain it eventually.
Which is why it's phrased that way ..."necessary but not absolutely necessary".
"Why it's phrased that way"? Surely you're not trying to make it sound as if the Bible phrases it that way; or are you? The Bible doesn't phrase it that way at all. You do.
From Webster's Unabridged Dictionary:
Necessary; that cannot be dispensed with; essential; indispensible; that must be done; mandatory; not voluntary; required.
If something is necessary, it is impossible for it not to be absolutely necessary. If I were you, I'd just let it drop. Every response you give, you are digging a deeper hole for yourself.
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Christ would disagree with your second paragraph..and I would too.
Oh, I know you would, but Christ wouldn't.
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That paragraph has two dilemma's for you.
1. Proxy baptism is against the Bible
Paul certainly didn't think so.
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2. "I don't believe that God would give us a commandment and then provide no way for us to obey it."....the perfection command is in the present tense. Why are you not perfect now?
Are you saying I'm not?
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You are to be perfect....not obtain it eventually.
I'm perfect in Christ right now. What about you?
Last edited by Katzpur; 09-15-2010 at 08:31 PM..
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Uh huh. Anything besides getting wet?
