Are you gods? Or did Jesus lie? (doctrine, church, beliefs)

[HotinAZ]

Originally Posted by Alpha8207

Your quotes are a little misleading, considering what you left out.

Yes, we are gods (little 'g') in the sense we are God's children....included in the family by adoption. But that doesn't mean we are anything like Gods(captial 'G'.)

The text Jesus was referencing in your quote comes from Psalm 82 and looking at that text clears up the matter quite well:

Psalm 82
A psalm of Asaph.
God presides in the great assembly;
he gives judgment among the "gods":

"How long will you [a] defend the unjust
and show partiality to the wicked?
Selah

Defend the cause of the weak and fatherless;
maintain the rights of the poor and oppressed.

Rescue the weak and needy;
deliver them from the hand of the wicked.

"They know nothing, they understand nothing.
They walk about in darkness;
all the foundations of the earth are shaken.

"I said, 'You are "gods";
you are all sons of the Most High.'

But you will die like mere men;
you will fall like every other ruler."

Rise up, O God, judge the earth,
for all the nations are your inheritance.

(emphasis added)

And when Jesus said what you quoted it wasn't to even discuss the issue of God's children being called 'gods', but rather to affirm that He is who He is:

Jesus answered them, "Is it not written in your Law, 'I have said you are gods'? If he called them 'gods,' to whom the word of God came—and the Scripture cannot be broken— what about the one whom the Father set apart as his very own and sent into the world? Why then do you accuse me of blasphemy because I said, 'I am God's Son'? John 10:34-36

(emphasis added)

Jesus was conveying that He had every right to claim to be God's Son and it was the Father Himself who confirmed that He was a 'Unique Son'(John 3:16) when He gave a special confirmation at His(Jesus') baptism by saying "This is my Son in whom I am well pleased."

ETA: See I Cor 8:5 for more on little 'g' gods and little 'l' lords.

Just because it is a "little g" in the translation doesn't take away from from the word god or gods=אלהים 'elohiym in the Word. Please stop taking man's word for it and let us do the actual research. Who are YOU? As a child of the Most High, which those on here claim to be, are you not therefore 'elohiym? By understanding this, you will then understand where your inheritence lies. No, Jesus did not lie. Nor did He claim to be something He wasn't. He did not say He was Yahweh, the Father Most High, nor did He claim to be. He said it as it was.

[RobinD69]

Before I became a Christian and would get into a rage while fighting or arguing I would yelll at the top of my lungs "I AM GOD". It really scared people. But no Jesus did not lie, we do make ourselve out to be God when we want to change His truth for a lie.

Originally Posted by HotinAZ

What does this mean, haven't I said "ye are gods"?

Jhn 10:34
Jesus answered them, Is it not written in your law, I said, Ye are gods? If he called them gods, unto whom the word of God came, and the scripture cannot be broken;


Lets figure this out, you who call upon the Name of the Most High!

First, notice that in verse 30 Jesus says that 'I and the Father are one.'

Second, verses 31-33 the Jews want to stone him for blasphemy because he 'being a man makes himself God'

Third, in verse 34 Jesus then quotes Ps. 82 "I said You are gods" Notice Jesus is not saying this directly to them he is quoting a line from the Ps.

Fourth, in verse 35 Jesus said 'If He [God] called them gods to whom the word of God came...' Notice the them not 'you' - Jesus is not saying that you guys are caled gods but the ones to whom the word of God came. What word of God? Well, Ps.82 and to whom did it come? Well, it was spoken about the divine council of God who are called 'elohim.' See Ps.82:1.

Think about it how would this response to the Jews help Jesus being the incarnate Son of God if it were refering to judges? It would not help Jesus' case. He would be sayin 'Chill man God called you guys gods back then what is the big deal if I am called the Son of God we are all gods.'

The point is that if God called them (the divine council) gods it is not blasphemous to be called the Son of God. Jesus' works and God himself testify of the fact that God has a unique Son whereby he will save the world. vv.36-38. From other Scriptures we know that this is God manifest in the flesh - John 1:14.

If the gods were judges it would diminish Jesus' diety not establish it.

Go here The Divine Council click on the articles - Ps.82; What is an elohim; and Jesus and Ps.82. for much more carity.

[HotinAZ]

Originally Posted by Shiloh1

First, notice that in verse 30 Jesus says that 'I and the Father are one.'

Second, verses 31-33 the Jews want to stone him for blasphemy because he 'being a man makes himself God'

Third, in verse 34 Jesus then quotes Ps. 82 "I said You are gods" Notice Jesus is not saying this directly to them he is quoting a line from the Ps.

Fourth, in verse 35 Jesus said 'If He [God] called them gods to whom the word of God came...' Notice the them not 'you' - Jesus is not saying that you guys are caled gods but the ones to whom the word of God came. What word of God? Well, Ps.82 and to whom did it come? Well, it was spoken about the divine council of God who are called 'elohim.' See Ps.82:1.

Think about it how would this response to the Jews help Jesus being the incarnate Son of God if it were refering to judges? It would not help Jesus' case. He would be sayin 'Chill man God called you guys gods back then what is the big deal if I am called the Son of God we are all gods.'

The point is that if God called them (the divine council) gods it is not blasphemous to be called the Son of God. Jesus' works and God himself testify of the fact that God has a unique Son whereby he will save the world. vv.36-38. From other Scriptures we know that this is God manifest in the flesh - John 1:14.

If the gods were judges it would diminish Jesus' diety not establish it.

Go here The Divine Council click on the articles - Ps.82; What is an elohim; and Jesus and Ps.82. for much more carity.

First, notice that in verse 30 Jesus says that 'I and the Father are one.'

"The Father is IN me, and I IN Him." verse 38 Jesus saying!

"Christ Jesus is IN me, and I In Him"- quote from me.
Does this make me Jesus? NO! It means He abides in me,and I in Him.

Second, verses 31-33 the Jews want to stone him for blasphemy because he 'being a man makes himself God'

Because they don't get, no more so than most don't get it now.

Fourth, in verse 35 Jesus said 'If He [God] called them gods to whom the word of God came...' Notice the them not 'you' - Jesus is not saying that you guys are caled gods but the ones to whom the word of God came. What word of God? Well, Ps.82 and to whom did it come? Well, it was spoken about the divine council of God who are called 'elohim.' See Ps.82:1.

82:6 PART 2
And ALL OF YOU are Sons of the Most High

Are you?

The point is that if God called them (the divine council) gods it is not blasphemous to be called the Son of God. Jesus' works and God himself testify of the fact that God has a unique Son whereby he will save the world. vv.36-38. From other Scriptures we know that this is God manifest in the flesh - John 1:14.

Jesus said that the works that He does is through His Father's Name. John 10:25
Jesus said if He didn't do the works of the Father, then don't believe Him. vs 37
Jesus said even if you don't believe me, believe the works, vs 38

why?

To PROVE the Father was IN Him, and He IN the Father.

Originally Posted by HotinAZ

"The Father is IN me, and I IN Him." verse 38 Jesus saying!

"Christ Jesus is IN me, and I In Him"- quote from me.
Does this make me Jesus? NO! It means He abides in me,and I in Him.



Because they don't get, no more so than most don't get it now.



82:6 PART 2
And ALL OF YOU are Sons of the Most High

Are you?




Jesus said that the works that He does is through His Father's Name. John 10:25
Jesus said if He didn't do the works of the Father, then don't believe Him. vs 37
Jesus said even if you don't believe me, believe the works, vs 38

why?

To PROVE the Father was IN Him, and He IN the Father.

Obviously, you did not get it. If it was just to prove that the Father was in Him by the works why quote Ps.82?? just look at the works. Do you even understand what the Ps. is about?? God is not talking to human beings when he says that in 82:6 and therefore when Jesus quotes it he is not refering to humans either. That word that Jesus quoted came to the gods (the elohim) of the divine council not humans.

Furthermore, why did you ask a veiled question? You obviously have a point to make just make it - Jesus is not God? Your OP is a false dichotomy - we are not gods and Jesus did not lie. It is not one or the other. Jesus equates 'I and my father are one' v.30 with 'I am the Son of God' v.36 In otherwords how is that blasphemous when God himself called other beings gods? Now there is only one unique Son of God - Jesus Christ - and that was the Word which was God and became flesh.

Why don't you read some of the articles that I posted before you respond with these assumptions - it may help clarify your wanting an answer - if that is why you really posted this - which I think is a deception on your part.

[HotinAZ]

Originally Posted by Shiloh1

Obviously, you did not get it. If it was just to prove that the Father was in Him by the works why quote Ps.82?? just look at the works. Do you even understand what the Ps. is about?? God is not talking to human beings when he says that in 82:6 and therefore when Jesus quotes it he is not refering to humans either. That word that Jesus quoted came to the gods (the elohim) of the divine council not humans.

Furthermore, why did you ask a veiled question? You obviously have a point to make just make it - Jesus is not God? Your OP is a false dichotomy - we are not gods and Jesus did not lie. It is not one or the other. Jesus equates 'I and my father are one' v.30 with 'I am the Son of God' v.36 In otherwords how is that blasphemous when God himself called other beings gods? Now there is only one unique Son of God - Jesus Christ - and that was the Word which was God and became flesh.

Why don't you read some of the articles that I posted before you respond with these assumptions - it may help clarify your wanting an answer - if that is why you really posted this - which I think is a deception on your part.

If I sounded callous or malitious then I am sorry, and beg forgiveness. Also for my spelling, which is not great either. I asked this question to reason together, too seek together, and for enlightenment and clarification from Father. I don't browse what others write on other websites, or have written on the subject in times past. I was hoping for where the Spirit leads you, not where man leads.

It is not deception on my part, for sure. I take what the Word says, apply it with my OWN reason, pray about it, and hope that Father gives me the answer.

Would it not be presumptious to say that Jesus was a man? If He was a man, but yet God, then where does that leave you and I? Are we not of the Father as well? No, not begotten, and no, not filled with the fullness of the Deity. But if He was full of the Deity, then what was the neccesity of the Spirit descending upon Him in bodily form, or is that when it happened, since He remained without sin and was undefiled?

These are but a few of the questions I have concerning my King, to whom I serve. It has nothing to do with my forgiveness, which I am already forgiven, through His gracious sacrifice of His life on my behalf for my own sin and the sins of the world.

I am battling the idea that Jesus had a "leg up" so to speak concerning His manhood. This religious brainwashing through my lifetime. Was He a man, or was He God. And if He was God, was He elohim, or Father? We know elohim is also Father included, but we are not Father, but yet we have the Son IN us. So again, who are we, according to the Word?

[Huckleberry3911948]

no but it would appear he called a bunch of liars gods.

[wilvan]

The word God is translated from Elohim... it is singular but a collective noun; like the word "family" is singular but consists of more than one member. If you read Gen 1:
22: And the LORD God said, Behold, the man is become as one of us, to know good and evil: and now, lest he put forth his hand, and take also of the tree of life, and eat, and live for ever:

God's plan is for humans to become Elohim in the future. When we are given eternal life then we become members of the God Family. We will be higher than the angels. In the meantime we are here on earth to learn the righteous way, to hate evil, and acquire the character of God.

[HotinAZ]

Originally Posted by wilvan

The word God is translated from Elohim... it is singular but a collective noun; like the word "family" is singular but consists of more than one member. If you read Gen 1:
22: And the LORD God said, Behold, the man is become as one of us, to know good and evil: and now, lest he put forth his hand, and take also of the tree of life, and eat, and live for ever:

God's plan is for humans to become Elohim in the future. When we are given eternal life then we become members of the God Family. We will be higher than the angels. In the meantime we are here on earth to learn the righteous way, to hate evil, and acquire the character of God.

But along these lines that you have laid out, here comes more. It says in Acts that we were reconciled back to Father by Way of Jesus, right? Back? Does this mean it is where we 'started'? In the OT is says the spirit returnes to the Father who gave it? When was it given? Is this where we started, and if so, why the heck are we here? What did we do that was so wrong to be put in the flesh, go through trials and tribulations, learn love and joy, and utimately find the peace, safety and forgiveness under the reign of our King, Jesus. If we were there before, as Elohim, then is it not within reason we still are, but have forgotten? Too many questions...

[twin.spin]

Q:Was He a man, or was He God?.

A: Jesus is both, God and man, not one or the other.

We are students\ servants "A student is not above his teacher, nor a servant above his master." Matthew 10:24