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Old 04-02-2009, 09:00 AM
juj juj started this thread
 
Location: Too far from MSG
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Since there seems to be some thread hijacking going on about the LDS church, I thought I might start a new thread.

Let me first say that I never met a Mormon I didn't like. (Obviously I have not met them all.) Every Mormon I have met have very strong Christian values and seem to be good God fearing, giving people.

I invite the LDS folks to chime in at any time, but don't you believe if you live a good life you can become a God on some other planet and furthermore that the God of this planet was just a person from some other place in the universe originally?

Last edited by juj; 04-02-2009 at 10:24 AM..
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Old 04-02-2009, 01:37 PM
 
Location: Salt Lake City
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Originally Posted by juj View Post
Since there seems to be some thread hijacking going on about the LDS church, I thought I might start a new thread.

Let me first say that I never met a Mormon I didn't like. (Obviously I have not met them all.) Every Mormon I have met have very strong Christian values and seem to be good God fearing, giving people.

I invite the LDS folks to chime in at any time, but don't you believe if you live a good life you can become a God on some other planet and furthermore that the God of this planet was just a person from some other place in the universe originally?
The Latter-day Saints are frequently accused of believing that they can, at some point in the future, become "Gods." Understandably, to many who do not fully understand our doctrine, the mere idea is out-and-out heresy.

But, let's start by changing “Gods” to “gods.” That lower-case “g” makes a world of difference in the meaning of the word. Next, before we really get started, let's clear up two big, big misconceptions:

(1) We do not believe that any of us will ever be equal to God, our Eternal Father in Heaven. He will always be our God and we will always worship Him.

(2) Nothing we could possibly do on our own could exalt us to the level of deity. It is only through the will and grace of God that man is given this potential. And "with God, nothing is impossible."

We believe, as you may know, that ours is a restoration of the very Church Jesus Christ established during His ministry here on earth. It would follow, then, that we believe we are teaching the same doctrines as were taught then and accepted by Jesus’ followers. Throughout the New Testament, there are indications that this doctrine (known as deification or exaltation) is not one the Latter-day Saints invented, but that the earliest Christians understood and believed it, as well.

Romans 8:16-17, 2 Peter 1:4, Revelation 2:26-27 and Revelation 3:21 are the four I like best. Through these verses, we learn that, as children of God, we may also be His heirs, joint-heirs with Christ, even glorified with Him. We might partake of the nature of divinity and be allowed to sit with our Savior on His throne, to rule over the nations.

Now, if these promises are true (as I believe they are), what do they all boil down to? To the Latter-day Saints, they mean that we have the potential to someday, be “godlike.” One of our prophets explained that "we are gods in embryo." If our Father is divine and we are literally his "offspring", as the Bible teaches we are, is it really such a stretch of the imagination to believe that he has endowed each of us with a spark of divinity?

Finally, there is considerable evidence that the doctrine of deification was taught for quite some time after the Savior’s death, and accepted as orthodox. Some of the most well-known and respected of the early Christian Fathers made statements that were remarkably close to the statements LDS leaders have made. For example:

In the second century, Saint Irenaeus said, “If the Word became a man, it was so men may become gods.” He also posed this question: “Do we cast blame on Him (God) because we were not made gods from the beginning, but were at first created merely as men, and than later as Gods?” At about the same period of time, Saint Clement made this statement: “The Word of God became a man so that you might learn from a man how to become a god.” And Saint Justin Martyr agreed, saying that men are “deemed worthy of becoming gods and of having power to become sons of the highest.” Some two centuries later, Athanasius explained that “the Word was made flesh in order that we might be enabled to be made gods. He became man that we might be made divine.” And, finally, Augustine, said, “But He that justifies also deifies, for by justifying he makes sons of God. For he has given them power to become the sons of God. If then we have been made sons of God, we have also been made gods.” Even today, a similar doctrine is taught in some of the Eastern Orthodox churches.

Even the noted Christian theologian, C.S. Lewis, said much the same thing in his book "Mere Christianity."

“The command Be ye perfect is not idealistic gas. Nor is it a command to do the impossible. He is going to make us into creatures that can obey that command. He said (in the Bible) that we were “gods” and He is going to make good His words. If we let Him – for we can prevent Him, if we choose – He will make the feeblest and filthiest of us into a god or goddess, dazzling, radiant, immortal creature, pulsating all through with such energy and joy and wisdom and love as we cannot now imagine, a bright stainless mirror which reflects back to God perfectly (though, of course, on a smaller scale) His own boundless power and delight and goodness. The process will be long and in parts very painful; but that is what we are in for. Nothing less. He meant what He said."

Finally, according to The Westminster Dictionary of Christian Theology, “Deification (Greek theosis) is for Orthodoxy the goal of every Christian. Man, according to the Bible, is made in the image and likeness of God…. It is possible for man to become like God, to become deified, to become god by grace.”

So, the "Mormons" really didn't come up with this doctrine. We only restored that which had been lost for many, many years.
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Old 04-02-2009, 02:13 PM
juj juj started this thread
 
Location: Too far from MSG
1,657 posts, read 2,413,657 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Katzpur View Post
The Latter-day Saints are frequently accused of believing that they can, at some point in the future, become "Gods." Understandably, to many who do not fully understand our doctrine, the mere idea is out-and-out heresy.

But, let's start by changing “Gods” to “gods.” That lower-case “g” makes a world of difference in the meaning of the word. Next, before we really get started, let's clear up two big, big misconceptions:

(1) We do not believe that any of us will ever be equal to God, our Eternal Father in Heaven. He will always be our God and we will always worship Him.

(2) Nothing we could possibly do on our own could exalt us to the level of deity. It is only through the will and grace of God that man is given this potential. And "with God, nothing is impossible."

We believe, as you may know, that ours is a restoration of the very Church Jesus Christ established during His ministry here on earth. It would follow, then, that we believe we are teaching the same doctrines as were taught then and accepted by Jesus’ followers. Throughout the New Testament, there are indications that this doctrine (known as deification or exaltation) is not one the Latter-day Saints invented, but that the earliest Christians understood and believed it, as well.

Romans 8:16-17, 2 Peter 1:4, Revelation 2:26-27 and Revelation 3:21 are the four I like best. Through these verses, we learn that, as children of God, we may also be His heirs, joint-heirs with Christ, even glorified with Him. We might partake of the nature of divinity and be allowed to sit with our Savior on His throne, to rule over the nations.

Now, if these promises are true (as I believe they are), what do they all boil down to? To the Latter-day Saints, they mean that we have the potential to someday, be “godlike.” One of our prophets explained that "we are gods in embryo." If our Father is divine and we are literally his "offspring", as the Bible teaches we are, is it really such a stretch of the imagination to believe that he has endowed each of us with a spark of divinity?

Finally, there is considerable evidence that the doctrine of deification was taught for quite some time after the Savior’s death, and accepted as orthodox. Some of the most well-known and respected of the early Christian Fathers made statements that were remarkably close to the statements LDS leaders have made. For example:

In the second century, Saint Irenaeus said, “If the Word became a man, it was so men may become gods.” He also posed this question: “Do we cast blame on Him (God) because we were not made gods from the beginning, but were at first created merely as men, and than later as Gods?” At about the same period of time, Saint Clement made this statement: “The Word of God became a man so that you might learn from a man how to become a god.” And Saint Justin Martyr agreed, saying that men are “deemed worthy of becoming gods and of having power to become sons of the highest.” Some two centuries later, Athanasius explained that “the Word was made flesh in order that we might be enabled to be made gods. He became man that we might be made divine.” And, finally, Augustine, said, “But He that justifies also deifies, for by justifying he makes sons of God. For he has given them power to become the sons of God. If then we have been made sons of God, we have also been made gods.” Even today, a similar doctrine is taught in some of the Eastern Orthodox churches.

Even the noted Christian theologian, C.S. Lewis, said much the same thing in his book "Mere Christianity."

“The command Be ye perfect is not idealistic gas. Nor is it a command to do the impossible. He is going to make us into creatures that can obey that command. He said (in the Bible) that we were “gods” and He is going to make good His words. If we let Him – for we can prevent Him, if we choose – He will make the feeblest and filthiest of us into a god or goddess, dazzling, radiant, immortal creature, pulsating all through with such energy and joy and wisdom and love as we cannot now imagine, a bright stainless mirror which reflects back to God perfectly (though, of course, on a smaller scale) His own boundless power and delight and goodness. The process will be long and in parts very painful; but that is what we are in for. Nothing less. He meant what He said."

Finally, according to The Westminster Dictionary of Christian Theology, “Deification (Greek theosis) is for Orthodoxy the goal of every Christian. Man, according to the Bible, is made in the image and likeness of God…. It is possible for man to become like God, to become deified, to become god by grace.”

So, the "Mormons" really didn't come up with this doctrine. We only restored that which had been lost for many, many years.
As a god, do you get your own planet or not?
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Old 04-02-2009, 03:08 PM
 
Location: Salt Lake City
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Originally Posted by juj View Post
As a god, do you get your own planet or not?
I have no idea. That's more a matter of speculation on the part of non-Mormons than it is doctrine to the Mormons. Seriously, this isn't even something we give much thought to. All the doctrine of "Eternal Progression" means to us is that God has given us (not just the Latter-day Saints, but all of His children), the privilege of learning and growing and advancing forever. Exactly what this means we can only imagine (and probably get it wrong).
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Old 04-02-2009, 03:26 PM
 
492 posts, read 1,054,488 times
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Originally Posted by juj View Post
As a god, do you get your own planet or not?
I hope the Mormons have the option to become similar to the Greek and Roman Gods instead of some old bearded man administering and admonishing planets and wretched beings. It would be cool to be God similar to Dionysius, party god, or Eros the God of love.
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Old 04-02-2009, 06:47 PM
 
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I worked with a young man back in the 60's who was a member of the reorganized church of JC of LDS. He was a very nice family man, a teen himself and father of 3 boys.
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Old 04-02-2009, 06:55 PM
 
Location: Salt Lake City
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Originally Posted by Okiegirlfriend View Post
I worked with a young man back in the 60's who was a member of the reorganized church of JC of LDS. He was a very nice family man, a teen himself and father of 3 boys.
The "Reorganized" Church is now known by the name "The Community of Christ." They are the largest of a number of splinter groups that have broken off of the Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saint over the years, and are headquartered in Independence, Missouri.
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Old 03-09-2012, 11:44 AM
 
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Katzpur... You are not even aligned to your own Prophet Joseph Smith as well as many other prophets of the LDS Church. It is an absolute fact and there is much evidence that even Joseph Smith believed in many Gods and that God was once a man who had his own God who once was a man who had his own God, ad infiniteum. Do some research on your own Church before you make an argument for them... You're not aligned to the LDS teachings. Look up the paper ""The King Follett Discourse: A Newly Amalgamated Text," from BYU STUDIES, which is an anamalgation of several (all are well aligned I might add) witnesses,including later prophets, to a speech by Joseph Smith. It is real clear that JS believed in many Gods!
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Old 03-09-2012, 11:53 AM
 
Location: Someplace Wonderful
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Quote:
Originally Posted by juj View Post
As a god, do you get your own planet or not?
Cant remember where I heard it, but apparently there was some obscure heresy somewhere in time that preached just that. A supreme God who created and then designated minor "Gods" each of whom was responsible for a single planet.

As an aside, I recently listened to a program about Marcian, a major heretic in early Christian history, and his theology of bi-theism. Marcian, trying to reconcile the God of the Old Testament with the God of the New Testament, concluded that there were two Gods. the God of the NT is superior to the God of the OT. and with the coming of messiah, God of the NT asserted His ascendancy and the God of the OT is now removed from any position of authority over us.

Marcianism proved very popular, and rivaled "mainstream" Christianity for a couple hundred years. Marcianites were persecuted and executed along side mainstream Christians in all the great persecutions.
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Old 03-09-2012, 12:10 PM
 
Location: Someplace Wonderful
5,178 posts, read 4,168,551 times
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Originally Posted by Katzpur View Post
The Latter-day Saints are frequently accused of believing that they can, at some point in the future, become "Gods." Understandably, to many who do not fully understand our doctrine, the mere idea is out-and-out heresy.

So we shouldn't call the peacemakers "the children of God?

Wonderful post, BTW. I just didnt want the god parts to distract from my feeble attempt at humor.
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