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Old 04-13-2009, 09:53 PM
 
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Hazel Eyes View Post
I'm a member of the Nazarene Church and they do not speak in tongues during their services..I have more problems with their stand on Sinless Perfection; they believe that you don't sin as your Sanctified by the blood of Christ. Now I believe we're Sanctified, but stll quite capable of sinning...The Apostle Paul considered himself "the chief of all sinners"...I was already a member when I found out about the Sinless Perfection belief....I know that not all in the congregation believed it that way either...Also, they will sprinkle, pour or immerse for baptism...I struggle with that one too as I'm a firm beliver in immersion...

If you love the church and they love the Lord then you might just have to over look a few things you don't understand or agree with...We're all doing the best we can in the body of Christ and we're not all going to agree...This explains so many denominations...
I am also a member of a Nazerine church, and don't agree with everything that the denomination believes. I don't know if its possible for every body in any given church to agree about everything, it's part of being human that we filter things through our specific life experiences and including the word of God. I would rather the gift of prophecy over tounges..
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Old 04-13-2009, 10:22 PM
 
Location: All around the world.....
2,886 posts, read 7,866,856 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Joyfully living View Post
Hello out there. This is my first time in a forum. I really need some help with a struggle I am having. I am getting ready to join a Nazarene Church but I am struggling with the fact that I believe that the charismatic gifts that Paul talks about in the New Testament are meant to help us in our lives and church communities today. Does that mean that I can't be a part of a Nazarene Church? I really love the people in this church and have gotten pretty involved and have two children who are getting involved. I didn't know that the Nazarene church might have a problem with charismatic gifts until recently. HELP!

Get out while you canl
I know absolutely zilch about this church but I do know this
11:1-4 The apostle desired to preserve the Corinthians from being corrupted by the false apostles. There is but one Jesus, one Spirit, and one gospel, to be preached to them, and received by them; and why should any be prejudiced, by the devices of an adversary, against him who first taught them in faith? They should not listen to men, who, without cause, would draw them away from those who were the means of their conversion.



Mark 7:9 He was also saying to them, "You are experts at setting aside the commandment of God in order to keep your tradition.
Romans 8:15 For you have not received a spirit of slavery leading to fear again, but you have received a spirit of adoption as sons by which we cry out, "Abba! Father!"

If your convictions are that of the fivefold ministry, Acts (book of)
It would be compromise that will result in a greater charge.
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Old 04-14-2009, 10:16 AM
 
Location: California
593 posts, read 1,678,427 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by robertfacehead View Post
I am also a member of a Nazerine church, and don't agree with everything that the denomination believes. I don't know if its possible for every body in any given church to agree about everything, it's part of being human that we filter things through our specific life experiences and including the word of God. I would rather the gift of prophecy over tounges..
There's always a verse to back up a denominations belief..I do know that the Church of the Nazarene is a good church and they love the Lord...We've had some interesting bible studies over the years because we see things a little different. It's always done with love, but I've found no one really changes their views..

What I love about the Narazene church is their freedom of worship, ie, raising hands, saying out loud, AMEN, testimonies, the alter up at the front of the sanctuary...I love to go down to the alter and pray for a need....We've been to other denominations that don't have alters and raising of hands is not done...
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Old 04-14-2009, 10:19 AM
 
Location: On a road heaven bound !
10,295 posts, read 8,927,395 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Hazel Eyes View Post
There's always a verse to back up a denominations belief..I do know that the Church of the Nazarene is a good church and they love the Lord...We've had some interesting bible studies over the years because we see things a little different. It's always done with love, but I've found no one really changes their views..

What I love about the Narazene church is their freedom of worship, ie, raising hands, saying out loud, AMEN, testimonies, the alter up at the front of the sanctuary...I love to go down to the alter and pray for a need....We've been to other denominations that don't have alters and raising of hands is not done...
Amen..... my experience also!!

Blessings
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Old 04-14-2009, 10:20 AM
 
Location: California
593 posts, read 1,678,427 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by yhwhshalomjr View Post
Get out while you canl
I know absolutely zilch about this church but I do know this
11:1-4 The apostle desired to preserve the Corinthians from being corrupted by the false apostles. There is but one Jesus, one Spirit, and one gospel, to be preached to them, and received by them; and why should any be prejudiced, by the devices of an adversary, against him who first taught them in faith? They should not listen to men, who, without cause, would draw them away from those who were the means of their conversion.



Mark 7:9 He was also saying to them, "You are experts at setting aside the commandment of God in order to keep your tradition.
Romans 8:15 For you have not received a spirit of slavery leading to fear again, but you have received a spirit of adoption as sons by which we cry out, "Abba! Father!"

If your convictions are that of the fivefold ministry, Acts (book of)
It would be compromise that will result in a greater charge.
That's a bit harsh...You know that not all churches believe that tongues are for today...I tend to stay quiet on that because I've never spoken in tongues and just don't understand it...And truthfully, some of the antics I've watched on TBN is scary...
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Old 04-16-2009, 09:45 PM
 
Location: Georgia, USA
702 posts, read 924,662 times
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Do any of you know what "Circusease" is? Announcers in a circus will some times speak gibberish in such a way as to sound like some language, like Russian or Chinese. Holy Spirit or made up, what's the big deal? You ought to do it just to get over what one of you calls "scary antics." The creepiness is in your darkened and inexperienced mind. Who cares, but a bunch of uptight misinformed babies. It's in the Bible! We all can read it; but, can we obey it? "So that, my brethren, be zealous to be prophesying, and the speaking in languages do not forbid." (1 Cor 14:39, CLV) Again, another brick in the wall to shut God out!

Another COMMANDMENT trampled underfoot by men's traditions a little earlier in the same chapter: "What, then, is it, brethren? Whenever you may be coming together, each of you has a psalm, has a teaching, has a revelation, has a language, has a translation. Let all occur to edification." (1 Cor 14:26, CLV)

People go to these stage shows featuring professional soothsayers telling us about our "personal" salvation, that we can have it, it'll be alright, you'll make it...and the idea of a many-membered Christ (cf., 1 Cor 12:12), every member participating, never crosses their minds.

You are meant to come into the image and likeness of God. How if the gifts and fruit of the Holy Spirit are forbidden? How if you are not on the program? It can't be so hard to understand: THE CHURCH IS NOT ON THE PROGRAM!!! We are all meant to exercise to our own spiritual development and critique each other's expression. But, stay in Babylon and after forty years you'll still only sit down and shut up. That's all you're allowed. Specially if you're a woman! For all of us in the audience, our presence makes no difference to the outcome of the meeting!

Yet, "The disciple is not above his master: but every one that is perfect shall be as his master." (Lk 6:40, KJV) Christ is the express image of God. We are His flesh and bones. (Eph 5) How will we come into functioning even as Jesus if we never exercise to develop expressing Him?

I don't know about the Ritualistic churches; but, of families in these Reformation meeting style churches with "all a sermon," something like 87% of the kids become turncoats, rejecting even Jesus in their late teens and early 20's, particularly as they attend college (Barna research). In the simple church fellowships that MEET WITHOUT HUMAN HEADSHIP, usually in their homes? They say it just doesn't happen. The kids are expected to receive and impart Christ in the meetings. Their lives matter! They know God in others and they are professionals in entering into God and imparting Him to others. They learn by doing! In the Pastor dominated churches we learn by NOT doing that we don't know and we don't have.

Last edited by JamesMRohde; 04-16-2009 at 11:14 PM..
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Old 04-17-2009, 05:52 PM
 
Location: California
593 posts, read 1,678,427 times
Reputation: 547
Quote:
Originally Posted by JamesMRohde View Post
Do any of you know what "Circusease" is? Announcers in a circus will some times speak gibberish in such a way as to sound like some language, like Russian or Chinese. Holy Spirit or made up, what's the big deal? You ought to do it just to get over what one of you calls "scary antics." The creepiness is in your darkened and inexperienced mind. Who cares, but a bunch of uptight misinformed babies. It's in the Bible! We all can read it; but, can we obey it? "So that, my brethren, be zealous to be prophesying, and the speaking in languages do not forbid." (1 Cor 14:39, CLV) Again, another brick in the wall to shut God out!

Another COMMANDMENT trampled underfoot by men's traditions a little earlier in the same chapter: "What, then, is it, brethren? Whenever you may be coming together, each of you has a psalm, has a teaching, has a revelation, has a language, has a translation. Let all occur to edification." (1 Cor 14:26, CLV)

People go to these stage shows featuring professional soothsayers telling us about our "personal" salvation, that we can have it, it'll be alright, you'll make it...and the idea of a many-membered Christ (cf., 1 Cor 12:12), every member participating, never crosses their minds.

You are meant to come into the image and likeness of God. How if the gifts and fruit of the Holy Spirit are forbidden? How if you are not on the program? It can't be so hard to understand: THE CHURCH IS NOT ON THE PROGRAM!!! We are all meant to exercise to our own spiritual development and critique each other's expression. But, stay in Babylon and after forty years you'll still only sit down and shut up. That's all you're allowed. Specially if you're a woman! For all of us in the audience, our presence makes no difference to the outcome of the meeting!

Yet, "The disciple is not above his master: but every one that is perfect shall be as his master." (Lk 6:40, KJV) Christ is the express image of God. We are His flesh and bones. (Eph 5) How will we come into functioning even as Jesus if we never exercise to develop expressing Him?

I don't know about the Ritualistic churches; but, of families in these Reformation meeting style churches with "all a sermon," something like 87% of the kids become turncoats, rejecting even Jesus in their late teens and early 20's, particularly as they attend college (Barna research). In the simple church fellowships that MEET WITHOUT HUMAN HEADSHIP, usually in their homes? They say it just doesn't happen. The kids are expected to receive and impart Christ in the meetings. Their lives matter! They know God in others and they are professionals in entering into God and imparting Him to others. They learn by doing! In the Pastor dominated churches we learn by NOT doing that we don't know and we don't have.
Speaking in tongues isn't the scary antics I was referring to...It's barking like a dog, crowing like a rooster, the laughter movement, angel feathers, and TBN'S many heretical teachers, ie, Jesse Duplantis who said he went to heaven and had a water fight with Jesus....Not all on TBN are heretics, but one needs to have discernment!
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Old 04-19-2009, 01:11 AM
 
Location: Georgia, USA
702 posts, read 924,662 times
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I was arguing with Marion and decided to say something I knew wasn't right a little way into it. I was telling her she was wrong and I was right in telling her she was wrong. I said, "Well, one thing I know for sure...I not going to get into trouble with God for telling somebody to repent!" Immediately I not only felt I was sorry for speaking to her like that; but, looking through the open door into the adjoining room I saw, descending from left to right at a little less than a 45 degree angle, a white feather. It was on fire, brightest at a point on the quill. The light from it flickered on the walls of the room. The flame on it burned horizontally.

Could you believe that a little boy who died, suffering from the sins of others against himself, might be gathered into the loving arms of His heavenly Father and healed in play with Him whose very throne is Mercy (Hbr: "chesed"--the ardor to meet the need, covenental love in action)?

Barking like a dog is in your Bible if you'd use a concordance, though it seems not so complimentary to me. A sudden "squeeze" by an angel would elicit something like that...I don't know, it's not something I've experienced...yet. I just don't want to criticize it. When I have thought, "Just not 'that,'" the Lord knows I wanted Him so much "that" is what He did to me. If you must know what "that" is, it is jerks. How humiliating. I get blessed by the Holy Spirit and sometimes I jerk and can't help it. It's Him so I don't want to help it. It's just ridiculous. Why should I care what others think of me if God is blessing me? The Word teaches that every mountain shall be brought low. All the pride of man shall be put in the dust in that day.

I have experienced the working of the Spirit of God both to laugh and to weep. That it should be magnified exponentially in comparison with our own ordinary emotional reactions should not be difficult to recognize. All of these things are not of much moment compared to being taken into Paradise or being in the body of one in the time when there is nothing living on the earth, or sky, and if there was a sea still I know not, but the red soil in all directions was upheaved like a giant hand and arm had thrust up through is from beneath. The reddish atmosphere, shuddering like slapped jello, suddenly rolls back, diappearing...later I found in the Bible where this is described.

My problem with popular religious media, besides projecting a cartoon Christianity (though we have to start somewhere,) is they keep you in the wading pool. You'll never launch out into the deep or swim with the big boys if you're conforming your thought over and over to their expression. Mostly they stay laying again and again the foundation of repentance from dead works and faith toward God only. The rest of the "elementary principles of the doctrine of Christ" (cp., Hebrews 6:1-3) are seldom even mentioned. For instance, "resurrection" is considered too far out or for some generation after ours. When you see a professional preacher appealing to millions you should know from the record of Jesus ministry not to expect anything deep. That would be controversial. The crowds would leave. It hardly needs to be said most of media Christianity is rife with traditions of men that make the Word of God have no effect.

But about how we treat our fellow servants...is your own experience so broad and your insight so profound that we should rely on your judgments regarding what other people experience?

John 21:21-23 (CLV)...
21 Peter, then, perceiving this one, is saying to Jesus, "Lord, yet what of this man?"
22 Jesus is saying to him, "If I should be wanting him to be remaining till I am coming, what is it to you? You be following Me!"
23 This word, then, came out to the brethren, that that disciple is not dying. Now Jesus did not say to him that he is not dying, but, "If I should be wanting him to be remaining till I am coming, what is it to you?"

David wouldn't lift his hand against Saul, though Saul, with his men, sought to kill him. David recognized Saul was the anointed of the Lord.

Philippians 1:15-18 (CLV)...
15 Some, indeed, are even heralding Christ because of envy and strife, yet some because of delight also;
16 these, indeed, of love, having perceived that I am located for the defense of the evangel,
17 yet those are announcing Christ out of faction, not purely, surmising to rouse affliction in my bonds.
18 What then? -- Morever, seeing that, by every method, whether in pretense or in truth, Christ is being announced, I am rejoicing in this also, and will be rejoicing nevertheless.

You know the city foursquare which is the wife of the Lamb has twelve gates. Those entering opposite of you are travelling in the opposite direction to come into the glory of God. Those to one side are entering tangential to the path you trod. There are many more entering in directions other than yours than there are those who are approaching in your way.

It is important to be able to defend the truth God has given to you, to whatever extent He has granted you entrance; but, to not judge others for not being able to accept for now what you know. It takes time for the seed to bring forth fruit...and then, some have appointments where you cannot go. They are meant for another place than yours.

If you knew God and His truth perfectly I would assume you could enter sinless immortality in the next few minutes. You be sure to let me know when you do.

1 Corintians 4:3-13 (CLV)...
3 Now to me it is the least trifle that I may be being examined by you or by man's day. But neither am I examining myself.
4 For of nothing am I conscious as to myself, but not by this am I justified. Now He Who is examining me is the Lord.
5 So that, be not judging anything before the season, till the Lord should be coming, Who will also illuminate the hidden things of darkness and manifest the counsels of the hearts. And then applause will be coming to each one from God.
6 Now these things, brethren, I transfer in a figure to myself and Apollos because of you, that in us you may be learning not to be disposed above what is written, that you may not be puffed up, one over the one, against the other.
7 For who is making you to discriminate["differ" --KJV]? Now what have you which you did not obtain? Now if you obtained it also, why are you boasting as though not obtaining?

8 Already are you sated, already are you rich, apart from us you reign. And would that you surely reign, that we also should be reigning together with you!
9 For I suppose that God demonstrates with us, the last apostles, as death-doomed, for we became a theater to the world and to messengers and to men.
10 We are stupid because of Christ, yet you are prudent in Christ. We are weak, yet you are strong. You are glorious, yet we are dishonored.
11 Until the present hour we are hungering also and thirsting, and are naked and are buffeted and unsettled and toiling, working with our own hands.
12 Being reviled, we are blessing; being persecuted, we are bearing with it;
13 being calumniated, we are entreating. As the offscourings of the world we became, the scum of all things, hitherto.

Of course, those who believe in ceasless torture for ever do not believe that every human will be receiving praise from God, but that is what He said would happen on the day that He will, "...illuminate the hidden things of darkness and manifest the counsels of the hearts." (loc.cit., 1 Cor 4:5, CLV)

Last edited by JamesMRohde; 04-19-2009 at 01:56 AM..
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Old 04-26-2009, 10:18 PM
 
3 posts, read 20,670 times
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Thumbs up Thanks for all of your help!

After much prayer, thought, listening to your thoughts and visiting with a retired Nazarene pastor's wife--I have a better understanding of what being a Nazarene means. I have decided to join this church. I love the people and agree with the essential teachings and have agreed to disagree with others. They have accepted me like family and, you are right, there are going to be disagreements within all denominations.

The new member presentation service is next Sunday. Thanks so much everybody for your help and thoughtful answers. God bless you all!

Didn't realize I was starting such a heated discussion. I really do appreciate everyone's input.

Last edited by Joyfully living; 04-26-2009 at 10:27 PM.. Reason: Forgot a thought
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Old 05-02-2010, 05:46 PM
 
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I believe the Nazarene's are more open to the move of the Holy Spirit than many think. I am the worship leader of the Central Nazarene church in clearwater, Florida and took the position clearly with senior pastor knowing I speak in tongues and move in all the gifts of the Spirit. He says he wants the Holy Spirit to have free reign in the service. I was just at the district meeting of the Nazarene churches last week-end in Lakeland, Florida and the district director said in the private meeting of many pastors before the evening worship that if you want to pray in your spiritual language it is OK. I hope I understood him correctly. For me I am going to continue to use tongues in my prayer life and openly as the Holy Spirit leads. I came out of a deep dispensational background and found out it was not biblical. My baptist and Bob Jones University training and led me to believe in something that cannot be substantiated biblically my a serious scholar. Your right to say the Scofield bible has wrongly influenced many people. I got rid of mine and just read the New King James Bible and let it speak for itself. We live in a day when we need to "Power gifts" of the Holy Spirit for living and meeting needs of people and serving our resurrected Christ. God is good
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