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Old 04-14-2009, 02:30 PM
 
Location: Cornelius
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Quote:
Tuesday, April 14, 2009

Preparing For The Tribulation

I am someone who believes the Bible teaches a Pre-Tribulation Rapture, that is, that Jesus will return for His Bride the Church and remove her from the planet before God unleashes His wrath upon the world for seven years. At the end of the seven years, Jesus will return in His Second Coming to earth with the Church Age Saints and do battle with the Antichrist and Satan. Jesus' victory will then usher in His 1,000-year Kingdom and the world will experience peace, righteousness and justice.

Others believe that Jesus will come to rapture the Church at the mid-point of the seven years. Still others believe Jesus will rapture believers just before the opening of the Sixth Seal, which they say is the true beginning of God's wrath. And, still others believe Jesus will rapture believers up to Heaven moments before Jesus returns for His Second Coming.
Read the rest here, and he even provides you with an opportunity to finish the article : The Christ in Prophecy Journal: Preparing For The Tribulation
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Old 04-14-2009, 09:04 PM
 
Location: Gaston, North Carolina
4,213 posts, read 5,254,214 times
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I lean towards pre trib but I prepare for the tribulation, what is the worst that can happen i leave the stuff for someone else? Its not like I am going to need it when I am raptured.
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Old 04-14-2009, 10:10 PM
 
Location: SC Foothills
8,831 posts, read 10,493,637 times
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Hey C_G!! Great link....I love Lamb & Lion ministries and David Reagan!! For some reason the Inspiration channel no longer carries his show, or if they do I cannot figure out when. He is great to watch and listen to. I read the whole article, including all of the comments and I especially love what "Rambling Rob" said.

Everyone said something important and relevant. I'm more on the same level with the poor guy with no shoes, but I have prepared as much as possible. I stocked up on can goods and Spam, and I'm still working on selling pretty much everything that I have so I can buy a piece of property to have a garden. We will have to rely on each other, whether Christian or non-Christian, if we aren't looking at a pre-trib Rapture. I still believe we are, but leaving our preparations behind for others is also a good thing. I sure wish the people who replied to his article would come to CD!!! I really connected to all of them and have had all of the same thoughts and ideas.....we need those Christians here!!!
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Old 04-15-2009, 07:47 AM
 
1,897 posts, read 3,204,860 times
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It is so sad how so many Christians today simply parrot what they are taught instead of letting the Scriptures teach them. It is better to believe nothing than to believe amiss!

I mean no disrespect to anyone here, but how many of us can sit down with our Bibles and in a logical, contextual, hermeneutically sound way present what we believe and why we believe it? If we cannot do so, then we really have no justification for claiming a certain belief. Have we passed from "I believe" and "I think" to "I know" because we have done the hard, hard work of sound Bible study? Perhaps you are right and I am wrong; perhaps we are both wrong and something else is right. The Scriptures will decide.

This is what is true of me. Every time--EVERY time--I am challenged by one of you, I return again and again to the Scriptures--even when I am convinced that I am right--just to make sure I am understanding correctly. I have not shut the door on many things, but I will insist that any who challenge my perspective do so with their own biblical research and hard work and sweat.

I rarely, if ever, post articles from others. Personally, I do not believe that those who do actually study those articles in depth to make sure the writer is being biblical. I rarely read such articles posted by others. The author of the article has spent hours and hours putting his thoughts together and often references numerous Bible verses or passages. When someone posts the work of another who has invested that amount of time, it places a huge burden on the one who is asked to read it. To do it justice, one must then spend an equal amount of time researching everything the author has written. Is that fair?

If I refer to an article, I only present that which I have fully investigated so that I completely understand and agree with the author's biblical conclusions.

I find fault here because I have been there. I once sat in a pew and absorbed everything that was taught to me. I jumped around in the Bible as the teacher ripped verses from here and there and put together a doctrine from it all. It sounded good to me! Thankfully, someone came along and taught me how to study the Bible for myself--inductively and contextually--and I began to see how many verses were being manipulated, ripped out of context and then misapplied. Am I right about everything? Do I have it all figured out? Most definitely not!

But I will guarantee this much. What I believe and what I teach, I do so with awe and respect of the Word of God. It is a fearful thing to me to think of ever misusing God's Word and then teaching error to others. I believe nothing and claim to believe nothing unless and until I personally pour over the Scriptures, dig into them deeply and respectfully, and bathe it all in fervent prayer. For years I believed errors because they sounded good and then I turned around and taught others also. I repent of that and pray that God has since undone the wrongs I have done by presuming to know what I did not know. I did not study to show myself approved; I did not rightly divide the Word of Truth. I was ashamed.

In spite of what others have claimed against me, I do not demand that everyone agree with me. But I do insist that those who disagree present sound, logical, biblical, and personally derived arguments.

The concept of the Tribulation is such a topic in which many who hold to it do so simply because they have been taught it. They know a few verses or passages that, when taken out of context, can be forced to teach a future, worldwide, end-of-the-world tribulation. Many Christians believe it, so it must be right! Many Churches and pastors teach it, so it must be right! Paul taught something, so it must be right! Not so, said the Bereans. We will check out even the great Apostle Paul to make sure that what he is saying is true according to the Scriptures!

Do most of us really know what we believe and why we believe it? What is our deepest desire? Mine certainly is not to fit in because I take heat every day of my life for what I believe the Bible clearly teaches. I have been made unwelcomed at my church and told basically to shut up! To keep peace and to not cause division, I left. I have been called a heretic and have often had my salvation called into question. Through it all, I return to the Word again and again. After all, if I am to be rejected and despised, I want to make sure it is for a sound biblical reason!

I know some here despise me and what I teach. I can't do anything about that. My desire has always been to encourage people to study and think for themselves--to be good Bereans.

Are we preparing for something that is behind us when we make ready for a future tribulation and Antichrist? What are the sound and contextual arguments which address audience relevance that support such a belief? Why do you believe what you believe? Is it what you have been taught or is it grounded in hermeneutically sound personal Bible study? Do you even understand preterism and its teachings or do you rely on articles written by preterism haters? I simply ask that we look again, with an unbiased attitude, at all of the verses and passages (in their context) which we claim teach a coming Antichrist and Tribulation. Who wrote them? Why did he write them? When did he write them? To whom did he write them? What is he plainly saying? What did his words mean to those who first heard or read them?

Can you personally support the teaching of a coming Tribulation or are you merely parroting what you have been taught? What I ask of you I ask of myself!

Blessings in Christ, Preterist
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Old 04-15-2009, 07:57 AM
 
Location: Bronx, NY
1,483 posts, read 2,889,971 times
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So Preterist, are you saying that noted scholars who have spent many years researching this subject are wrong and you are right? I'm just wondering because just as you maintain a rigid view of this particular subject, so do others elsewhere who are probably more learned that you and I together. So where does that leave us?
Another question, is this really a subject that has great bearing on our salvation? I don't really believe so because our lives should revolve around Jesus and His Great Commission that He gave to us, not debating whether or not He is or is not going to return one day for His church.

Other than that, I do appreciate that you are so on fire for the Lord....very nice to see!!!!
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Old 04-15-2009, 08:35 AM
 
Location: South Africa
5,563 posts, read 6,638,000 times
Reputation: 1788
Default Meet him in the clouds

1Th 4:17 Then we who are alive and remain shall be caught up together with them in the clouds, to meet the Lord in the air. And so we shall ever be with the Lord.

1Th 4:18 Therefore comfort one another with these words.
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Old 04-15-2009, 08:56 AM
 
Location: Cornelius
3,662 posts, read 8,923,962 times
Reputation: 797
Quote:
Originally Posted by Preterist View Post
It is so sad how so many Christians today simply parrot what they are taught instead of letting the Scriptures teach them. It is better to believe nothing than to believe amiss!

I mean no disrespect to anyone here, but how many of us can sit down with our Bibles and in a logical, contextual, hermeneutically sound way present what we believe and why we believe it? If we cannot do so, then we really have no justification for claiming a certain belief. Have we passed from "I believe" and "I think" to "I know" because we have done the hard, hard work of sound Bible study? Perhaps you are right and I am wrong; perhaps we are both wrong and something else is right. The Scriptures will decide.

This is what is true of me. Every time--EVERY time--I am challenged by one of you, I return again and again to the Scriptures--even when I am convinced that I am right--just to make sure I am understanding correctly. I have not shut the door on many things, but I will insist that any who challenge my perspective do so with their own biblical research and hard work and sweat.

I rarely, if ever, post articles from others. Personally, I do not believe that those who do actually study those articles in depth to make sure the writer is being biblical. I rarely read such articles posted by others. The author of the article has spent hours and hours putting his thoughts together and often references numerous Bible verses or passages. When someone posts the work of another who has invested that amount of time, it places a huge burden on the one who is asked to read it. To do it justice, one must then spend an equal amount of time researching everything the author has written. Is that fair?

If I refer to an article, I only present that which I have fully investigated so that I completely understand and agree with the author's biblical conclusions.

I find fault here because I have been there. I once sat in a pew and absorbed everything that was taught to me. I jumped around in the Bible as the teacher ripped verses from here and there and put together a doctrine from it all. It sounded good to me! Thankfully, someone came along and taught me how to study the Bible for myself--inductively and contextually--and I began to see how many verses were being manipulated, ripped out of context and then misapplied. Am I right about everything? Do I have it all figured out? Most definitely not!

But I will guarantee this much. What I believe and what I teach, I do so with awe and respect of the Word of God. It is a fearful thing to me to think of ever misusing God's Word and then teaching error to others. I believe nothing and claim to believe nothing unless and until I personally pour over the Scriptures, dig into them deeply and respectfully, and bathe it all in fervent prayer. For years I believed errors because they sounded good and then I turned around and taught others also. I repent of that and pray that God has since undone the wrongs I have done by presuming to know what I did not know. I did not study to show myself approved; I did not rightly divide the Word of Truth. I was ashamed.

In spite of what others have claimed against me, I do not demand that everyone agree with me. But I do insist that those who disagree present sound, logical, biblical, and personally derived arguments.

The concept of the Tribulation is such a topic in which many who hold to it do so simply because they have been taught it. They know a few verses or passages that, when taken out of context, can be forced to teach a future, worldwide, end-of-the-world tribulation. Many Christians believe it, so it must be right! Many Churches and pastors teach it, so it must be right! Paul taught something, so it must be right! Not so, said the Bereans. We will check out even the great Apostle Paul to make sure that what he is saying is true according to the Scriptures!

Do most of us really know what we believe and why we believe it? What is our deepest desire? Mine certainly is not to fit in because I take heat every day of my life for what I believe the Bible clearly teaches. I have been made unwelcomed at my church and told basically to shut up! To keep peace and to not cause division, I left. I have been called a heretic and have often had my salvation called into question. Through it all, I return to the Word again and again. After all, if I am to be rejected and despised, I want to make sure it is for a sound biblical reason!

I know some here despise me and what I teach. I can't do anything about that. My desire has always been to encourage people to study and think for themselves--to be good Bereans.

Are we preparing for something that is behind us when we make ready for a future tribulation and Antichrist? What are the sound and contextual arguments which address audience relevance that support such a belief? Why do you believe what you believe? Is it what you have been taught or is it grounded in hermeneutically sound personal Bible study? Do you even understand preterism and its teachings or do you rely on articles written by preterism haters? I simply ask that we look again, with an unbiased attitude, at all of the verses and passages (in their context) which we claim teach a coming Antichrist and Tribulation. Who wrote them? Why did he write them? When did he write them? To whom did he write them? What is he plainly saying? What did his words mean to those who first heard or read them?

Can you personally support the teaching of a coming Tribulation or are you merely parroting what you have been taught? What I ask of you I ask of myself!

Blessings in Christ, Preterist
Feel all better now?

Seriously, Preterist, I do study my Bible and I find overwhelming evidence that Jesus is coming again. You and I are polar opposites on this topic, so as I've said before, it's futile to debate with you. I have absolutely no desire too. And I agree with what urban said, even the last sentence.
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Old 04-15-2009, 08:58 AM
 
Location: Cornelius
3,662 posts, read 8,923,962 times
Reputation: 797
Quote:
Originally Posted by SeekerSA View Post
1Th 4:17 Then we who are alive and remain shall be caught up together with them in the clouds, to meet the Lord in the air. And so we shall ever be with the Lord.

1Th 4:18 Therefore comfort one another with these words.
That's the Rapture, not a nuclear bomb.
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Old 04-15-2009, 09:02 AM
 
Location: Cornelius
3,662 posts, read 8,923,962 times
Reputation: 797
Quote:
Originally Posted by RobinD69 View Post
I lean towards pre trib but I prepare for the tribulation, what is the worst that can happen i leave the stuff for someone else? Its not like I am going to need it when I am raptured.
Quote:
Originally Posted by DayoftheLord View Post
Hey C_G!! Great link....I love Lamb & Lion ministries and David Reagan!! For some reason the Inspiration channel no longer carries his show, or if they do I cannot figure out when. He is great to watch and listen to. I read the whole article, including all of the comments and I especially love what "Rambling Rob" said.

Everyone said something important and relevant. I'm more on the same level with the poor guy with no shoes, but I have prepared as much as possible. I stocked up on can goods and Spam, and I'm still working on selling pretty much everything that I have so I can buy a piece of property to have a garden. We will have to rely on each other, whether Christian or non-Christian, if we aren't looking at a pre-trib Rapture. I still believe we are, but leaving our preparations behind for others is also a good thing. I sure wish the people who replied to his article would come to CD!!! I really connected to all of them and have had all of the same thoughts and ideas.....we need those Christians here!!!


I am prepared for hard times myself. The Lord may certainly take us away before it gets bad, or we may have to endure some tough times before He chooses to do so. It could be economic collapse, terrorist attack, or pandemic. I am prepared for the worst regardless--my job requires it and I want to secure my family for any situation.

In fact, whether you are a believer or not, you should prepare you and your family to sustain for 1-3 months without ANY assistance.
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Old 04-15-2009, 09:48 AM
 
1,897 posts, read 3,204,860 times
Reputation: 285
Quote:
Originally Posted by urbanlemur View Post
So Preterist, are you saying that noted scholars who have spent many years researching this subject are wrong and you are right? I'm just wondering because just as you maintain a rigid view of this particular subject, so do others elsewhere who are probably more learned that you and I together. So where does that leave us?
Another question, is this really a subject that has great bearing on our salvation? I don't really believe so because our lives should revolve around Jesus and His Great Commission that He gave to us, not debating whether or not He is or is not going to return one day for His church.

Other than that, I do appreciate that you are so on fire for the Lord....very nice to see!!!!
Hearty greetings to you, urbanlemur. It's great to talk to you again, but I think you inferred what I never implied! I was making the point that many people simply post articles from others or give links to articles without studying them themselves. I was simply asking that we use only that portion of an article that we ourselves have looked into and understand. How am I supposed to handle a lengthy article filled with Scripture verses? I cannot either agree or disagree with the article until I study it and in order to study it, I must investigate in their context the Scripture verses and passages used to support the arguments. As I intended to convey, it is better for us to simply deal with those things which we can adequately support ourselves. That said, it is possible, urbanlemur, to be right about something that scholars have gotten wrong for centuries!

Furthermore, urbanlemur, I am not the one throwing rapture theories and Antichrist theories around for the unbelieving world to look at with amusement. But I agree--many of those who do are my brothers and sisters in Christ and that is what binds us together for eternity. However, if I feel that something is being taught which is giving the world cause to question the veracity of the Bible, the truthfulness of the Apostles' teachings, and the trustiworthiness of my Lord, then I must speak out. Even unbelievers can see that the Scriptures (Jesus and the Apostles) teach a soon return of Christ--soon, that is, to those of that first-century generation. Skeptics and atheists understand that Jesus said He was returning to those of His day, but according to the Church, He still has not! They, then, point their fingers at the inspired writers and accuse them of lying--they are false teachers. They accuse our Lord of lying--He is false prophet. They claim the Bible to be a book of errors--Christianity is a false religion. So you see, this goes beyond mere petty disagreements over certain Scripture passages.

Also, premil., pretrib. dispensationalism has created generations of Christians interested more in escaping this world than in impacting it. They have created self-fulfilling prophecy. In their view, the world is supposed to get worse and worse, they do little or nothing to stop the evil around them, and surprise, surprise, the world becomes worse and worse! "Evil flourishes when good men do nothing!" People like Tim LaHaye, Hal Lindsey and Jack Van Impe (Bible scholars?) have done much to make the Church a laughing stock before an unbelieving world.

When Jesus said, "Behold, I am coming soon," I feel compelled to defend His words. When Jesus told His disciples that some of them would live to see Him coming in His kingdom, I feel obligated to defend His words. When Jesus told His disciples standing right there with Him that all the things of which He taught them would happen in that very generation, I feel driven to defend His words. When John recorded that he was shown those things which were to shortly take place because the time was then near, I must defend the truthfulness of those inspired words.

As you stated, the bottomline in my relationship with my fellow believers with whom I disagree is that we are bought by the shed blood of Christ and will dwell together with Him in eternity in our resurrection bodies. But all brothers and sisters have disagreements, and I don't believe that this issue of Christ's return is a small dispute. Anything that casts doubt or ridicule upon the Word of God must be addressed. This is called, as you know, apologetics--but there's no apology in apologetics! Neither do I apologize for defending God's Word before an unbelieving, ridiculing world.

Have a great day in Christ, Preterist

P.S. Learning does not always lead to truth, and scholars are only scholars because they are recognized by others to be so. While we might have much to gain from them, everything they say or teach must still match the Word of God. They are not infallible, and we should not and must not allow ourselves to become so intimidated by their "scholarship" that we refrain from challenging them as readily as the Bereans challenged Paul!

Last edited by Preterist; 04-15-2009 at 09:59 AM..
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