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Mt 24:2 And Jesus said unto them, See ye not all these things? verily I say unto you, There shall not be left here one stone upon another, that shall not be *thrown down.
Mr 13:2 And Jesus answering said unto him, Seest thou these great buildings? there shall not be left one stone upon another, that shall not be *thrown down.
Lu 21:6 As for these things which ye behold, the days will come, in the which there shall not be left one stone upon another, that shall not be *thrown down.
Do you understand what the words 'thrown down' mean? #2647. It means all will be destroyed, dissolved, demolished.
As I said earlier. Christ is returning again and this time He's not coming as a humble servant. He's coming to bring rewards to His followers and punishment to those who are against Him.
You (all of you who have done this) can mock and laugh, but we will see who laughs last.
Jerusalem was already thrown down... no stone left upon another..
You mean that Jesus is going to come back and destroy the whole earth in one earthquake?
Kinda fruitless argument considering you can't prove it is future any more than I can prove it isn't future.
So.... does that mean that you believe people in heaven will be laughing at others? Mocking them for their prior beliefs?
Nor are you going to. I think we realists have beat the illusionists into mute submission.
You are probably right....or maybe....they've actually starting reading the scriptures and are learning something....I think I would rather believe the best than the worst.
Jerusalem was already thrown down... no stone left upon another..
You mean that Jesus is going to come back and destroy the whole earth in one earthquake?
Kinda fruitless argument considering you can't prove it is future any more than I can prove it isn't future.
So.... does that mean that you believe people in heaven will be laughing at others? Mocking them for their prior beliefs?
The bible does not state the earth will be destroyed in one earthquake prior to the Lord's return but that the cities of the nations will fall and islands be moved. This earthquake will mark the end of this age/eon and usher in the new with Christ as Head of all governments for the millennium.
The bible does not state the earth will be destroyed in one earthquake prior to the Lord's return but that the cities of the nations will fall and islands be moved. This earthquake will mark the end of this age/eon and usher in the new with Christ as Head of all governments for the millennium.
There are several earthquakes listed in the NT:
Matt 28:2 - When Christ was resurrected.
Acts 16:26 - Prisoners chains broke it was such a great earthquake.
Rev 11:13 - 1/10th of the city fell when the two witnesses were resurrected. The temple of God in heaven opens to show the ark of the covenant.
Rev 16:18 - "a thief in the night," the 7th angel pours out the bowl after God says "It is done" This is the greatest earthquake since man has been on earth. The great city is split into 3 parts and the cities of the nations collapsed.
Can you please provide scripture for this assessment?
I sure can. Let's look at Zech. 14 for starters:
1 Behold, *the day YHVH cometh, and thy spoil shall be divided in the midst of thee.
2 For I will gather all nations against Jerusalem to battle; and the city shall be taken, and the houses rifled, and the women ravished; and half of the city shall go forth into captivity, and the residue of the people shall not be cut off from the city.
3 Then shall YHVH go forth, and fight against those nations, as when he fought in the *day of battle.
* "day of battle." When did God fight a battle for His ppl? In 70 A.D.? Nope.
Here:Ex. 14:7,8,10, 13-14
7 And he took six hundred chosen chariots, and all the chariots of Egypt, and captains over every one of them.
8 And YHVH hardened the heart of Pharaoh king of Egypt, and he pursued after the children of Israel: and the children of Israel went out with an high hand.
10 ¶ And when Pharaoh drew nigh, the children of Israel lifted up their eyes, and, behold, the Egyptians marched after them; and they were sore afraid: and the children of Israel cried out unto YHVH.
13 And Moses said unto the people, Fear ye not, stand still, and see the salvation of the LORD, which he will shew to you to day: for the Egyptians whom ye have seen to day, ye shall see them again no more for ever.
14 YHVH shall fight for you, and ye shall hold your peace.
And so He did fight for them at the Red Sea.
See also Neh. 4; and 2 Chron. 20.
Back to Zech.
Zech.14:4 "And his feet shall stand *in that day upon the mount of Olives, which is before Jerusalem on the east, and the mount of Olives shall cleave in the midst thereof toward the east and toward the west, and there shall be a very great valley; and half of the mountain shall remove toward the north, and half of it toward the south."
Again did this happen in 70 A.D.? No.
Or has this event happened yet?
2Pe 3:10 But *the day of the Lord will come as a thief in the night; in the which the heavens shall pass away with a great noise, and the elements [*stoicheion]shall melt with fervent heat, the earth also and the works that are therein shall be burned up.
2Pe 3:12 Looking for and hasting unto the coming of *the day of God, wherein the heavens being on fire shall be dissolved, and the elements [stoicheion] shall melt with fervent heat?
Just so you understand the earth itself is not going to be destroyed when Messiah returns, but cleaned with fire. [Our God is a consuming fire].
*stoicheion means principles; teachings, tradtions of men,
As shown here:
Ga 4:3 Even so we, when we were children, were in bondage under the elements [stoicheion] of the world:
Ga 4:9 But now, after that ye have known God, or rather are known of God, how turn ye again to the weak and beggarly elements,[stoicheion] whereunto ye desire again to be in bondage?
Col 2:8 Beware lest any man spoil you through philosophy and vain deceit, after the tradition of men, after the rudiments [stoicheion] of the world, and not after Christ.
Col 2:20 Wherefore if ye be dead with Christ from the rudiments [stoicheion] of the world, why, as though living in the world, are ye subject to ordinances.
Matt. 24:3 And as he sat upon the mount of Olives, the disciples came unto him privately, saying, Tell us, when shall these things be? and what shall be the *sign of thy coming, [parousia=presence] and of the end of the world [aion=age]?
* The sign of His coming is given in. vs. 29,30:
29 Immediately after the tribulation of those days shall the sun be darkened, and the moon shall not give her light, and the stars shall fall from heaven, and the powers of the heavens shall be shaken:
30 And then shall appear the sign of the Son of man in heaven: and then shall all the tribes of the earth mourn, and they shall see the Son of man coming in the clouds of heaven with power and great glory
No, Eusebius, it has not happened yet--according to the way in which you and most futurists insist that it must. It is an assumption (a false one) that physical bodies were to pop up out of their graves. That is not what Paul is teaching. Furthermore, study the context of 1 Corinthians 15--again, WE are not the YE. Paul is definitely including himself in the events he is describing. HE and those to whom he first wrote were to be changed in the twinkling of an eye. The same is true of 1 Thes. 4--when Paul uses "we," he means to include himself and those of his generation (all believers subsequently have a part in this).
The biggest hindrance to understanding today is the refusal to place things in their context and to acknowledge audience relevance. Another unfortunate problem is the misunderstanding of the nature of Christ's return and the nature of the resurrection and the nature of the judgment. As long as people continue to be taught that Christ must come visibly and physically to all the entire world all at the same time and touch His actual feet on the earth; as long as people believe that the resurrection involves the physical bodies of EVERYONE who has ever lived popping up out of graves all at the same time; as long as people continue to believe that the judgment is some end- of-the-world, all-inclusive event, the Scriptures will continue to be misunderstood.
Read 2 Thessalonians 2, Eusebius. To whom was the Lord going to appear? To whom was He going to give rest? Whom was He going to trouble with the same trouble that had been given to those very Thessalonians and other saints of THAT day?
His coming and the resurrection and the judgment have not happened--IN THE WAY YOU INSIST THEY MUST. But they have happened--IN THE WAY THE SCRIPTURES INSISTED THEY MUST! Respectfully, Eusebius, your timing is off because your understanding is off.
Preterist
Paul said "we" because he did not know but it was possible that he might be alive when the Lord returns. He was bound by the statement of Christ, "No man knows the hour or the day. not even the Son." The rapture is not being caught away up into this physical air. This is the reason many do not understand rapture because they think of it in a natural [carnal mind] way]. The rapture is being caught up/into if you perfer, to the 3rd Heaven in a spiritual body. 1COR 15:44 "It [the flesh] is sown a natural body; it is raised a spiritual body. There is a natural body, and there is a spiritual body." In like manner there is spiritual air, clouds of Heaven, and rooms in the House of The Lord. These are a much higher reality than the natural mind as known or can know. They are only spiritually understood by the Spiritual mind in Christ, but only in part now, but when Christ returns, the fullness of Glory will be known.
The scriptures speak of the rapture in a metaphorical way but most people interpret it in a carnal way, because Jesus demonstrated in a physical way [caught up into the air in the clouds] what was going to happen at the last trumpet blast ["changed in the twinkling of an eye"] the mortal must put on immortality of nature to be able to enter the 3rd heaven because flesh and blood can not inherit the Kingdom of God.
1COR 15:53 "For this corruptible must put on incorruption, and this mortal must put on immortality." The clouds always represent where the waters of life dwell. The air represents the Holy pure of Heaven.
As the Devil is the prince and power of this spiritual air of earth, the Lord is the Prince and Power of the air of the Kingdom of Heaven here within those who are "born again", of Paradise, and of the 3rd Heaven.
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