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God's covenants are always fulfilled through obedience...
Deuteronomy 4:1 Now therefore hearken, O Israel, unto the statutes and unto the judgements, which I teach you, for to do them, that ye may live, and go in and possess the land which the Lord God of your fathers giveth you.
Deuteronomy 4:40 Thou shalt keep therefore His statutes, and His commandments, which I command thee this day, that it may go well with thee, and with thy children after thee, and that thou mayest prolong thy days upon the earth, which the Lord thy God giveth thee, for ever.
Deuteronomy 5:10 And showing mercy unto thousands of them that love Me and keep My commandments.
Deuteronomy 5:29 O that there were such an heart in them, that they would fear Me, and keep all My commandments always, that it might be well with them, and with their children for ever!
Hi Verna,
Here are two of the greatest promises given by God - both are contingent on keeping the 7th day Sabbath holy:
Isa 58:13 "If you turn back your foot from the Sabbath, from doing your pleasure on my holy day, and call the Sabbath a delight and the holy day of the LORD honorable; if you honor it, not going your own ways, or seeking your own pleasure, or talking idly;
Isa 58:14 then you shall take delight in the LORD, and I will make you ride on the heights of the earth; I will feed you with the heritage of Jacob your father, for the mouth of the LORD has spoken."
As you have pointed out the promises of God are conditional upon obedience.
Good afternoon little elmer......thank you for your reply.
This is a very powerful Scripture you presented...Isaiah 46:8-11...God is warning a rebellious people about their worshipping of idols, instead of worshipping Him...and He is letting them know how serious, and powerful He is, and that none of their false god's could EVER even come close to comparing with Him..saying, "My counsel shall stand, and I will do my pleasure...Indeed I have spoken it; I will also bring it to pass. I have purposed it; I will also do it."...His "counsel"...(His "advice and guidance") shall stand!
You said...
His plan is to bring all creation into Himself, and who will deny Him?
My question is, do you believe all of creation will come unto Him?...Do you believe that there will be none who will deny Him? I wonder...How do you relate this scripture to God describing to His creation what they must do in order to achieve what He wants for them...is there something all creation must do, in reference to His counsel, that he very adamantly states, "...SHALL STAND"?
Love,
Verna
Verna - so sorry I haven't seen this before now (rendering unto Ceaser).
The most definitive source of "predicting" what God will do is God's own words, which of course stand because He doesn't waver. God has made it known that He is not willing that any should perish, but that all should (will) come to repentance (2 Pet 3:9). We won't get into the "all in all" verses that can't be refuted either; but none of this would mean anything if God wasn't sovereign, faithful, almighty, etc.
The will of Him vs. the will of man seems to be a point of contention. Man's will is not free, moreover if God's will is apposed to it!
Here are two of the greatest promises given by God - both are contingent on keeping the 7th day Sabbath holy:
Isa 58:13 "If you turn back your foot from the Sabbath, from doing your pleasure on my holy day, and call the Sabbath a delight and the holy day of the LORD honorable; if you honor it, not going your own ways, or seeking your own pleasure, or talking idly;
Isa 58:14 then you shall take delight in the LORD, and I will make you ride on the heights of the earth; I will feed you with the heritage of Jacob your father, for the mouth of the LORD has spoken."
As you have pointed out the promises of God are conditional upon obedience.
HK
...beautiful choice of Scripture dear brother! God bless you!
Here are two of the greatest promises given by God - both are contingent on keeping the 7th day Sabbath holy:
That is spoken in forbearance to Him who is the Sabbath, namely Jesus. It's not about a day, it's much more than that - we are to find our very life in Him.
For He is our peace (our rest, our Sabbath), who hath made both one, and hath broken down the middle wall of partition between us. (Eph 2:14)
Verna - so sorry I haven't seen this before now (rendering unto Ceaser).
The most definitive source of "predicting" what God will do is God's own words, which of course stand because He doesn't waver. God has made it known that He is not willing that any should perish, but that all should (will) come to repentance (2 Pet 3:9). We won't get into the "all in all" verses that can't be refuted either; but none of this would mean anything if God wasn't sovereign, faithful, almighty, etc.
The will of Him vs. the will of man seems to be a point of contention. Man's will is not free, moreover if God's will is apposed to it!
I'm glad you're back!..You're right, God's Word stands...and yes, He does not waiver in what He says. He give us rules and statutes, and commandments to live by, in order for us to receive His promises.
In 2 Peter 3:9, You correctly quote this Scripture when you quote it as this...The Lord is not slack concerning His promise, as some men count slackness; but is longsuffering to usward, not willing that any should parish, but that all should come to repentance. You inserted, in parenthesis, the word (will), but that isn't what His Word, in truth, says. This is the error in which the children of God are being taught by false teachers and others who would pervert the Word of God and lead us away from the truth...preparing their flocks for judgement!
God gave man the ability to be holy and blameless before Him. As we look forward to the coming day of the Lord, when Christ will return to seperate the wicked from the righteous and to gather His saints together in the air, we must MAKE EVERY EFFORT to be found SPOTLESS and BLAMELESS in Him. "Make every effort" means "intense effort." We must continually strive ~ concentrate our efforts ~ on being righteous as Jesus is righteous.
How do we put on the breastplate of righteousness...according to His plan and purpose to have a people who would be set apart unto Him, holy and blameless?...To reconcile man to Himself, God made a covenant with him. He established the Law through Moses and required man to walk in obedience to all His commandments. To break one law was to be guilty of all. If man obeyed the law, he received God's blessing. If he disobeyed, he was cursed. Man, in his fallen state was unable to fulfill the requirements of the Law...and God saw this.
In His infinite love and mercy, God had pity upon His people. He promised to cleanse them, to take away their sinful nature and place His Spirit within them so that they would have the ability to walk holy and blameless before Him in obedience to His commandments.
"A new heart also will I give you, and a new spirit will I put within you; and I will take away the stony heart out of your flesh; and I will give you an heart of flesh. And I will put My Spirit within you, and cause you to walk in My statutes, and ye shall keep my judgements, and do them" (Ezekiel 36:26-27).
Not only did God plan for man to be holy and blameless, He gave him the ability. What would you think of a God Who would require His people to do something that was impossible for them to do? He said, "I'm going to remove the old sinful nature within you. I'm going to put My Spirit within you that will enable you to be holy ~ to walk in obedience to Me."
In accordance with His purpose and plan to have a people ~ children who would be created in His own image, who would reflect His righteousness and holiness ~ He sent Jesus.
Not everyone (will.) Even those who believe that because they "believe" in Jesus, and they "believe" all that He did for them, they are saved from judgement, and can willfully sin and repent, sin and repent, sin and repent, over and over again...unfortunately are dead wrong. They were given the ability to overcome sin, but they didn't use the power of the Spirit of God given to them to deny their own will...their own lusts of the flesh. We have a free will, to choose what spirit we will live by...the Spirit of God...or the spirit of the flesh. There are contengencies in receiving blessing and promises from God.
I love you little elmer...it is my heart to tell His truth, not man's truth, because I want all who have the ears to hear, to be ready for His coming...to be prepared...and not be deceived.
I'm glad you're back!..You're right, God's Word stands...and yes, He does not waiver in what He says. He give us rules and statutes, and commandments to live by, in order for us to receive His promises.
In 2 Peter 3:9, You correctly quote this Scripture when you quote it as this...The Lord is not slack concerning His promise, as some men count slackness; but is longsuffering to usward, not willing that any should parish, but that all should come to repentance. You inserted, in parenthesis, the word (will), but that isn't what His Word, in truth, says. This is the error in which the children of God are being taught by false teachers and others who would pervert the Word of God and lead us away from the truth...preparing their flocks for judgement!
Verna, this is a common mistranslation of the old English verbage - "should" & "might" are used as "in order that", "so that", "because" or "will".
Quote:
Originally Posted by Verna Perry
God gave man the ability to be holy and blameless before Him. As we look forward to the coming day of the Lord, when Christ will return to seperate the wicked from the righteous and to gather His saints together in the air, we must MAKE EVERY EFFORT to be found SPOTLESS and BLAMELESS in Him. "Make every effort" means "intense effort." We must continually strive ~ concentrate our efforts ~ on being righteous as Jesus is righteous.
The role we play in obedience is very little (saying yes) compared to the separating you describe - fire does that, and does it very well.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Verna Perry
How do we put on the breastplate of righteousness...according to His plan and purpose to have a people who would be set apart unto Him, holy and blameless?...
Indeed! A remnant to carry the Seed of the Firstfruit (Jesus):
Eph 1:9-11) Having made known unto us the mystery of His will, according to his good pleasure which he hath purposed in himself: That in the dispensation of the fulness of times He might gather together in one all things in Christ, both which are in heaven, and which are on earth; even in Him: In whom also we have obtained an inheritance, being predestinated according to the purpose of Him who worketh all things after the counsel of His own will!
Quote:
Originally Posted by Verna Perry
To reconcile man to Himself, God made a covenant with him. He established the Law through Moses and required man to walk in obedience to all His commandments. To break one law was to be guilty of all. If man obeyed the law, he received God's blessing. If he disobeyed, he was cursed. Man, in his fallen state was unable to fulfill the requirements of the Law...and God saw this.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Verna Perry
And this is more than just obedience, it's a complete renewal of the carnal nature that is required; most Christians don't see the depth of our dying to self that is necessary. I do believe however, that God uses our failures to allow us to fully see our need for Him. The deeper the revelation of us, the more He then reveals Jesus Christ, our Savior.
In His infinite love and mercy, God had pity upon His people. He promised to cleanse them, to take away their sinful nature and place His Spirit within them so that they would have the ability to walk holy and blameless before Him in obedience to His commandments
Quote:
Originally Posted by Verna Perry
.
"A new heart also will I give you, and a new spirit will I put within you; and I will take away the stony heart out of your flesh; and I will give you an heart of flesh. And I will put My Spirit within you, and cause you to walk in My statutes, and ye shall keep my judgements, and do them" (Ezekiel 36:26-27)
Not only did God plan for man to be holy and blameless, He gave him the ability. What would you think of a God Who would require His people to do something that was impossible for them to do? He said, "I'm going to remove the old sinful nature within you. I'm going to put My Spirit within you that will enable you to be holy ~ to walk in obedience to Me."
You notice the proclamation that He will put His spirit in us, and cause us to walk in obedience. Notice that the stony heart cannot, but alas - the grain of wheat must die as Jesus said. We must come to the end of ourselves. We attempt to follow, and may do "good", but the true Nature that obeys is the nature of Christ. Mankind as a whole may fall so far away that he finally comes to the end of his "collective self" - but God's plan is not thwarted, He kills that He may make alive. (Deu 32:39)
Quote:
Originally Posted by Verna Perry
In accordance with His purpose and plan to have a people ~ children who would be created in His own image, who would reflect His righteousness and holiness ~ He sent Jesus.
Indeed, For whom he did foreknow, he also did predestinate to be conformed to the image of his Son, that he might be the firstborn among many brethren. (Rom 8:29) And "That in the dispensation of the fulness of times..."
Quote:
Originally Posted by Verna Perry
Not everyone (will.) Even those who believe that because they "believe" in Jesus, and they "believe" all that He did for them, they are saved from judgement, and can willfully sin and repent, sin and repent, sin and repent, over and over again...unfortunately are dead wrong. They were given the ability to overcome sin, but they didn't use the power of the Spirit of God given to them to deny their own will...their own lusts of the flesh. We have a free will, to choose what spirit we will live by...the Spirit of God...or the spirit of the flesh. There are contengencies in receiving blessing and promises from God.
Indeed there are, but the consummation of His plan - yea, the consummation of all is back to Him. This is what I don't see anyone but those of us who believe the whole word of God addressing! There is a fire that awaits all flesh, and I believe it is here already for many in the form of tribulation and trials. Not one of us is holy, completely emptied of the flesh. But...He will be all in all.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Verna Perry
I love you little elmer...it is my heart to tell His truth, not man's truth, because I want all who have the ears to hear, to be ready for His coming...to be prepared...and not be deceived.
Love in Christ Jesus,
Verna
Love you too, I ran out of time toward the end, but maybe we can continue tomorrow.
Deuteronomy 29:9 Keep therefore the words of this covenant, and do them, that ye may prosper in all that ye do.
Deuteronomy 7:9 Know therefore that the Lord thy God, He keepeth covenant and mercy with them that love Him and keep His commandments to a thousand generations.
Deuteronomy 7:12-14 Wherefore it shall come to pass, IF ye hearken to these judgements, and keep them, that the Lord thy God shall keep unto thee the covenant and the mercy which He sware unto thy fathers:
And He will love thee, and bless thee: he nwill also bless the fruit of thy womb, and the fruit of thy land, thy corn, and thy wine, and thine oil, the increase of thy kine, and the flocks of thy sheep, in the land which He sware unto thy fathers to give thee.
Thou shalt be blessed above all people: there shall not be male or feamle barren among you, or among your cattle.
My whole existance is soley dependant upon GOD. The FATHER, SON, and SPIRIT
is LIFE and the LIFE has made me alive! Alive forever in JESUS CHRIST, "The only name given among men whereby we must be saved".
JESUS caused me to hate the things of the world and love Him. If we love GOD, we will hate the evils of this world, love our enemies and our friends, and always praise GOD for all good things.
Bless all who know my GOD and who love Him! Bless you all who love JESUS CHRIST!!! Praise the LORD GOD who is, was, and is to come!, and who has had great mercy upon this formally sinfull man.
Last edited by ForHimByHim; 04-21-2009 at 08:29 PM..
[quote=little elmer;8451024]Verna, this is a common mistranslation of the old English verbage - "should" & "might" are used as "in order that", "so that", "because" or "will".
In reference to the Scripture that says, "...the Lord...is longsuffering to usward, not willing that any should perish, but that all should come to repentance.", you are correct, that "should" could also be worded as "will"...
The word "should", used in this context means:
should: 3195; to intend, i.e. be about to be, do, or suffer something (of persons or things, espec. events; in the sense of purpose, duty, necessity, probability, possibility, or hesitation):-about, after that, be (almost), (that which is, things + which was for) to come, intend, was to (be), mean, mind, be at the point, (be) ready, + return, shall (begin), (which that) should (after, afterwards, hereafter) tarry, which was for, will, would. (Strong's Conc.)...
and that doesn't change the meaning of what it says...
This is my concern...that the Scripture says "should", and not "will," and I believe it does so for a reason. The word "should" is weaker than "ought" and appreciably weaker than "must" and "have to" and even weaker still than "will." The word "should", used in this context, means there is an uncertainity in a future event...it isn't certain, by any means, that no one will perish, and it isn't certain there again, by any means, that all will repent for their sins...as a matter of fact, the Bible says that there is a time and a judgement, when the wheat and the tares, (the believers and the unbelievers), will be seperated...the believers will go to be with our King Jesus, and the unbelievers will die in their sin...seperated from the presence of God forever. So we must undertand that God is telling us that He wishes, with all of His heart, that we all not perish, and that we all repent of our sins, but He knows we all will not, not perish...and He knows we all will not repent...unfortunately. And where so many misunderstand God's promises is in their interpretation of these "key" words.
I'm concerned that many are being deceived in believing that no matter what they do, after they have said a few words, asking Jesus to come into their heart, they are saved and covered by the blood of Jesus, because Jesus knows they are full of sin anyway, and He is too much of a loving, kind, patient God, to ever bring His wrath down upon them...etc...etc...ect. <<This is the kind of false doctrine that many false teachers of our modern Christian Churches are teaching their flocks today...only to be preparing them for judgement.....for their destruction.
The role we play in obedience is very little (saying yes) compared to the separating you describe - fire does that, and does it very well.
Saying yes is indeed very little. However, our "role" is much more than just saying, "yes." It isn't easy, by any means to be transformed and changed from who we were before we hearkened to the voice of God calling us to Him...into a new creation in Christ Jesus. There is nothing easy about it at all. God gave man the "ability" to be holy and blameless before Him, but because of lack of knowledge of the truth, we've not taken hold of what it is we need to do, and we live as spiritual "paupers," when God has planned for us to be priests and kings!!! Not knowing our side of the responsibilities; what is expected of us, or our legal rights in the covenant we have entered into with God, through Christ, when Satan tries to afflict, rob, and attack us, we give up in defeat, thinking there is nothing we can do. Thus the reason for this thread...because we also need to be very aware that there are promises, and there are blessings of God for us...but there is always something we must do first in order to obtain what He has promised us, and to have His blessing upon our lives.
Indeed! A remnant to carry the Seed of the Firstfruit (Jesus):
Eph 1:9-11) Having made known unto us the mystery of His will, according to his good pleasure which he hath purposed in himself: That in the dispensation of the fulness of times He might gather together in one all things in Christ, both which are in heaven, and which are on earth; even in Him: In whom also we have obtained an inheritance, being predestinated according to the purpose of Him who worketh all things after the counsel of His own will!
If our will, while on this earth, is what we chose to adhered to, against His will for us, then we will be judged accordingly...
You notice the proclamation that He will put His spirit in us, and cause us to walk in obedience. Notice that the stony heart cannot, but alas - the grain of wheat must die as Jesus said. We must come to the end of ourselves. We attempt to follow, and may do "good", but the true Nature that obeys is the nature of Christ. Mankind as a whole may fall so far away that he finally comes to the end of his "collective self" - but God's plan is not thwarted, He kills that He may make alive. (Deu 32:39)
Deut.32:41 If I whet My glittering sword, and mine hand take hold on judgement; I will render vengeance to mine enemies, and will reward them that hate Me.
Indeed, For whom he did foreknow, he also did predestinate to be conformed to the image of his Son, that he might be the firstborn among many brethren. (Rom 8:29) And "That in the dispensation of the fulness of times..."
I pray to God that many more will learn His truth, so that Jesus will be the firstborn of even more!!...Praise God!!!
Indeed there are, but the consummation of His plan - yea, the consummation of all is back to Him. This is what I don't see anyone but those of us who believe the whole word of God addressing! There is a fire that awaits all flesh, and I believe it is here already for many in the form of tribulation and trials. Not one of us is holy, completely emptied of the flesh. But...He will be all in all.
...yes.
Love you too, I ran out of time toward the end, but maybe we can continue tomorrow.
God's covenants are always fulfilled through obedience...
Quote:
Quote:
Originally Posted by Verna Perry
God's covenants are always fulfilled through obedience...
Deuteronomy 4:1 Now therefore hearken, O Israel, unto the statutes and unto the judgements, which I teach you, for to do them, that ye may live, and go in and possess the land which the Lord God of your fathers giveth you.
Deuteronomy 4:40 Thou shalt keep therefore His statutes, and His commandments, which I command thee this day, that it may go well with thee, and with thy children after thee, and that thou mayest prolong thy days upon the earth, which the Lord thy God giveth thee, for ever.
Deuteronomy 5:10 And showing mercy unto thousands of them that love Me and keep My commandments.
Deuteronomy 5:29 O that there were such an heart in them, that they would fear Me, and keep all My commandments always, that it might be well with them, and with their children for ever!
Hello and greetings to you
Our Lord Jesus Christ gives us thy word, as His Father continue to fulfill his covered to thy people, as we read in
Isaiah 52: 2 – 17 Spare not, lengthen thy cords, and strengthen thy stakes;
For thou shalt break forth on the right hand and on the left; and thy seed shall inherit the Gentiles, and make the desolate cities to be inhabited.
Fear not; for thou shalt not be ashamed: neither be thou confounded; for thou shalt not be put to shame: for thou shalt forget the shame of thy youth, and shalt not remember the reproach of thy widowhood any more.
For thy Maker is thine husband; the LORD of hosts is his name; and thy Redeemer the Holy One of Israel; The God of the whole earth shall he be called.
For the LORD hath called thee as a woman forsaken and grieved in spirit, and a wife of youth, when thou wast refused, saith thy God.
For a small moment have I forsaken thee; but with great mercies will I gather thee.
In a little wrath I hid my face from thee for a moment; but with everlasting kindness will I have mercy on thee, saith the LORD thy Redeemer.
For this is as the waters of Noah unto me: for as I have sworn that the waters of Noah should no more go over the earth; so have I sworn that I would not be wroth with thee, nor rebuke thee.
For the mountains shall depart, and the hills be removed; but my kindness shall not depart from thee, neither shall the covenant of my peace be removed, saith the LORD that hath mercy on thee.
O thou afflicted, tossed with tempest, and not comforted, behold, I will lay thy stones with fair colours, and lay thy foundations with sapphires.
And I will make thy windows of agates, and thy gates of carbuncles, and all thy borders of pleasant stones.
And all thy children shall be taught of the LORD; and great shall be the peace of thy children.
In righteousness shalt thou be established: thou shalt be far from oppression; for thou shalt not fear: and from terror; for it shall not come near thee.
Behold, they shall surely gather together, but not by me: whosoever shall gather together against thee shall fall for thy sake.
Behold, I have created the smith that bloweth the coals in the fire, and that bringeth forth an instrument for his work; and I have created the waster to destroy.
No weapon that is formed against thee shall prosper; and every tongue that shall rise against thee in judgment thou shalt condemn. This is the heritage of the servants of the LORD, and their righteousness is of me, saith the LORD.
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...thank you for your reply.
Thank you Harold!
judgement!
(will.) Even those who believe that because they "believe" in Jesus, and they "believe" all that He did for them, they are saved from judgement, and can willfully sin and repent, sin and repent, sin and repent, over and over again...unfortunately are dead wrong. They were given the ability to overcome sin, but they didn't use the power of the Spirit of God given to them to deny their own will...their own lusts of the flesh. We have a free will, to choose what spirit we will live by...the Spirit of God...or the spirit of the flesh. There are contengencies in receiving blessing and promises from God.
...for their destruction.
God's covenants are always fulfilled through obedience...
