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No one is interested in my views anyway...so I have found more fun in just asking questions and helping in the search for answers that way.
and giving the answer to a question right away is never going to help anyone learn anything...
I'm interested in everyone's views. I only want to find the truth. This is one of the teachings of the COC that I may not agree with. If I can be shown that there is authority for women preachers, I will disagree with them.
I'm interested in everyone's views. I only want to find the truth. This is one of the teachings of the COC that I may not agree with. If I can be shown that there is authority for women preachers, I will disagree with them.
I am going to try to answer in the way that I have seen this scripture based upon studying and using the lexicon concordance... the words in red are from the definition of the greek word.
But I suffer not a woman 1135 (of any age, whether virgin, betrothed,
married, or widow) to teach 1321 (hold discourse, instruct, deliver didactic
discourse, discharge office, impart instruction, instill doctrine, explain,
expound, teach), nor to usurp authority 831 (this is the only place in scripture where this form of the word authority, being authenteo, is used and it means one who with own hand kills another or self, acts on own authority, absolute master, govern, exercise dominion) over the man 435 (occurs 215 times and distinguishes adult man from boy), but to be in silence 2271 (quietness, description of life of one who stays at home, does not meddle in affairs of others).
Having done that... The way I see it first is to note the word authority used here and how it shows "acting on own authority, absolute master, governing and exercising dominion" ... these are not all things that are necessarily applied with regard to teaching.
For example, my Sunday School teacher may teach me every Sunday morning, however, they are not acting on their own authority but the authority given to them first by God in their calling and second by the head pastor of my church whom has allowed them to hold the position of teacher. Therefore any authority is not of their own, but bestowed upon them.
Also, while my Sunday School teacher may have the authority to teach me, yet they are not my absolute master, nor do they hold dominion over my life. While yes, as a member of the church body (whether male or female members) respect is given to their appointed position of leadership and guidance.
So my interpretation here is not so much that they can't teach at all, as in ever, but rather 1) they are not to do so out of their own authority (rather the authority of God and under the authority of another possibly like their husband's approval or church leadership approval) and 2) they are not to do so in a manner that is as "lording" over the men, exercising dominion over the men, attempting to master or govern them, or as an absolute master over them.
I would also think that based on it saying "instill doctrine", it would also mean they are not to have the final word on doctrine.
That at least is the understanding I am getting from this verse.
Last edited by mari4him; 11-05-2009 at 06:17 PM..
Reason: adding bolding and doctrine sentence at end
You are correct,,,I did write that in a totally messed up way..
What I wanted to say...
That the Bible verse used to stop women from being church leaders is the one verse that says that the person must be the "Husband of one wife"
The people against lady leaders will say that this proves that a woman cant be in church leadership because it would be impossible to be the "Husband of one wife" because the person has to be a man to be a husband.
Their argument would then be, "A wife cant have one wife"
Now when I look back at the way I wrote that in the older post, I see how when I speak the words, they still work.
But when read from your point of view what I wrote? Then it just does not work as a good sentence...and I see your point and the problem with the sentence.
so you are correct in asking me to go over that again...
I am going to try to answer in the way that I have seen this scripture based upon studying and using the lexicon concordance... the words in red are from the definition of the greek word.
But I suffer not a woman 1135 (of any age, whether virgin, betrothed,
married, or widow) to teach 1321 (hold discourse, instruct, deliver didactic
discourse, discharge office, impart instruction, instill doctrine, explain,
expound, teach), nor to usurp authority 831 (this is the only place in scripture where this form of the word authority, being authenteo, is used and it means one who with own hand kills another or self, acts on own authority, absolute master, govern, exercise dominion) over the man 435 (occurs 215 times and distinguishes adult man from boy), but to be in silence 2271 (quietness, description of life of one who stays at home, does not meddle in affairs of others).
Having done that... The way I see it first is to note the word authority used here and how it shows "acting on own authority, absolute master, governing and exercising dominion" ... these are not all things that are necessarily applied with regard to teaching.
For example, my Sunday School teacher may teach me every Sunday morning, however, they are not acting on their own authority but the authority given to them first by God in their calling and second by the head pastor of my church whom has allowed them to hold the position of teacher. Therefore any authority is not of their own, but bestowed upon them.
Also, while my Sunday School teacher may have the authority to teach me, yet they are not my absolute master, nor do they hold dominion over my life. While yes, as a member of the church body (whether male or female members) respect is given to their appointed position of leadership and guidance.
So my interpretation here is not so much that they can't teach at all, as in ever, but rather 1) they are not to do so out of their own authority (rather the authority of God and under the authority of another possibly like their husband's approval or church leadership approval) and 2) they are not to do so in a manner that is as "lording" over the men, exercising dominion over the men, attempting to master or govern them, or as an absolute master over them.
I would also think that based on it saying "instill doctrine", it would also mean they are not to have the final word on doctrine.
That at least is the understanding I am getting from this verse.
I agree. In the COC they don't say women can't teach at all, but can't teach men. They can teach children and other women. They use this verse to back up that belief. Thank you for taking the time to answer my question!
I dont know if I have a position for or against lady preachers...
But I note that much of the argument against lady preachers is faulty.
Like the use of the verse "Husband of one wife" used to say a wife cant have one wife.
That line of thinking fails.
The "Women must be silent" is not talking about leadership, but rather is just talking about "Shut the Heck up" when the preacher is preaching.
Actually, the verses in Titus that speak of "husband of one wife" is referring to elders or deacons, not preachers. This thought actually goes along with what mari4him just described as well.
I totally agree with you about the "women being silent" verse means be quiet during preaching.
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