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Old 11-06-2009, 09:47 AM
 
3,067 posts, read 4,103,910 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by mzjamiedawn View Post
an elder not being held to a higher standard.
Than a bishop?

No, we all know full well, (And have always known) that when a guy becomes a bishop he is never off duty from then on.
Bishops dont get sick days.

Im an elder.
I get a ton of sick days...
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Old 11-06-2009, 09:47 AM
 
Location: USA
1,244 posts, read 3,225,814 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by mzjamiedawn View Post
I agree. In the COC they don't say women can't teach at all, but can't teach men. They can teach children and other women. They use this verse to back up that belief. Thank you for taking the time to answer my question!
You're welcome.

To expound on it a bit more, I agree there is no question a woman can teach women and children. I believe the question is can they teach if men are also present?

Personally based upon reading this scripture, praying about it while asking the Holy Spirit to guide me in all truth while studying the word of God, and also looking at the rest of scripture, which is all inspired of God, I honestly can't find strike prohibition for a woman to teach while men are present.

What I see in this scripture is that the woman should not be acting on her own authority. There is a difference between acting on "your own" authority and acting under the authority of another.

In other words, if the woman appoints herself to a leadership teaching position, she is acting on her own authority. However, if a woman has the God given gift of teaching upon her life which is clearly evident to say her husband and her pastor, to which teaching produces much fruit and is biblically sound and her pastor asks her to teach say a bible study for couples, to which the woman then goes home and discusses it with her husband who agrees with the pastor and thus offers his blessing to his wife to teach the class and thus she accepts the role. Is she acting on "her own" authority? Or is she acting on the authority of God, who has gifted her with the ability to teach and produce fruit, and the authority of her husband who has agreed to her teaching and offered his blessings to do so, and under the authority of her pastor, to whom she will answer to as far as doctrine being taught etc.

See what I mean. There is a difference between acting on "one's own" authority and acting under the authority of another.

As a practical application from every day living. Take an employee, under their position at the workforce there are certain decisions the employee can make based upon their own "authority", common sense, knowledge, and responsibility pertaining to their job, yet there are those which they can not, and must seek approval for or of from their boss prior to proceeding with any decision being made.

Furthermore, does teaching another automatically mean they are exercising dominion over the student? Does it mean they are mastering over them? Governing them? If so, perhaps women ought to never share the gospel, instruct, or guide a male in any truth for it may be she is "usurping authority over a man". Where would this leave our female missionaries and evangelists?

Or how about a truly godly woman who on a Sunday morning receives a message of the Lord with the instruction to deliver that word to another member of the congregation, either to edify that person, encourage them, instruct them, or whatever, should she deliver that message in obedience to the Lord who has called her to do so, when it is evident (not misguided) for her to do so?

What if that other member of the congregation is a man? Should she disobey God then, ignoring what He has placed in her heart to do because she is not to appear as "teaching or usurping authority over the man"?

What if the Lord speaks to the woman a word of prophesy (as He did say He would pour out His spirit upon His sons AND daughters AND they will ALL prophesy) to speak to the congregation. Should she keep that word of prophesy to herself because there are men in the congregation?

Would God say He will pour out His spirit upon sons AND daughters and they will ALL prophesy if He did not wish for women to do so? Is God a respecter of person's?

If Paul never intended a woman to teach a man, why then did Paul not address and correct not only Priscilla for being part of teaching a man, but also her husband Aquila for allowing her to do so.

Mark 16:24-26 - 24 Now a certain Jew named Apollos, born at Alexandria, an eloquent man and mighty in the Scriptures, came to Ephesus. 25 This man had been instructed in the way of the Lord; and being fervent in spirit, he spoke and taught accurately the things of the Lord, though he knew only the baptism of John. 26 So he began to speak boldly in the synagogue. When Aquila and Priscilla heard him, they took him aside and explained to him the way of God more accurately.

Acts 18:1-3 tells us that Paul stayed with Aquila and Priscilla. Do we not think if this matter of a woman teaching a man was as significantly out of order in God's plan as we try to make it out to be in 1 Timothy that Paul would not have addressed it right here and then? Rather, what we see is Paul commending both Priscilla and Aquila. I'm going to include Paul's commending of Phoebe as well, who in scripture the word diakonos was translated to servant yet in other places in scripture where the very same word is used, even in referring to Paul was translated to minister 20 times, 3 times to deacon and 8 times to servant. (perhaps the difference applied by the translators due to gender and nothing more or less)

1 I commend to you Phoebe our sister, who is a servant of the church in Cenchrea, 2 that you may receive her in the Lord in a manner worthy of the saints, and assist her in whatever business she has need of you; for indeed she has been a helper of many and of myself also.3 Greet Priscilla and Aquila, my fellow workers in Christ Jesus, 4 who risked their own necks for my life, to whom not only I give thanks, but also all the churches of the Gentiles. 5 Likewise greet the church that is in their house. Greet my beloved Epaenetus, who is the firstfruits of Achaia[a] to Christ.

Obviously Paul truly never had a problem with women ministers, teachers, etc. Perhaps his only problem was under what authority they did so. Was it their own? Or under the authority of God? Therefore, can and should the only admonition when it comes to teaching be that it is done in a manner that is befitting of the Lord. One that directs all authority, mastering, governing, dominion, etc unto the Lord to which all is due. In other words, not I (male or female) but the Lord. In a way where the I (male or female) decreases, that He (God) may increase.
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Old 11-06-2009, 09:53 AM
 
Location: Tulsa
2,529 posts, read 4,351,497 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by alanMolstad View Post
Than a bishop?

No, we all know full well, (And have always known) that when a guy becomes a bishop he is never off duty from then on.
Bishops dont get sick days.

Im an elder.
I get a ton of sick days...
This is where you and I disagree. I believe an elder and bishop is the same thing.
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Old 11-06-2009, 09:58 AM
 
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Quote:
Originally Posted by alanMolstad View Post
Sorry, but the men do not have a right to speak up during church.,..that right is only for the church leadership.

People that stand up right in the middle of a worship hour and start talking are crazy, and should be cast out
I also agree that only church leaders should talk in church, unless when others are guided to do so, but I was disagreeing with the scripture that states that men should be allowed to talk, in church, while women should not. As what a woman has to say is just as relevant as what any man would have have to say
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Old 11-06-2009, 10:00 AM
 
3,067 posts, read 4,103,910 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by mzjamiedawn View Post
This is where you and I disagree. I believe an elder and bishop is the same thing.
well a bishop is an elder in the church...
But not all elders in a church are Bishops....

I know of no Christian church that has ever advanced every single elder member to the high position of a Bishop.

The word "Bishop" comes with the context of being an "Overseer" = someone who watches over a collection of different churches from his position of leadership.

The idea of being a church Elder such as myself, is that we are local members of a church who have put in the time , we have reached an age, and we have shown we know a few things about God, that we can be called in to answer questions and mostly give our advice on church matters.

The Pastor will bring in the Elders of his church when it's time to talk about the church kitchen, or the new roof.
We Church Elders are the helpers of the pastor with getting the whole church behind different issues and projects.
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Old 11-06-2009, 10:02 AM
 
3,067 posts, read 4,103,910 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Blacksheep017 View Post
but I was disagreeing with the scripture that states that men should be allowed to talk, in church, while women should not.
Eh?

There is a bible verse that says I get to talk sports during worship and girls cant?

let me see it...LOL
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Old 11-06-2009, 10:05 AM
 
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Fundamentalist View Post
I am confused. Are you saying that because we don't allow women as pastors because scripture says so somehow makes women inferior to men?
No what I am saying is that women and men alike should not be allowed to talk in church and I am disagreeing with the scripture that says that men should talk in church whilest women should remain silent, as this is ridiculous as what men and women have to say is of equal worth and so why should women be more restricted then men as to when they can speak. However i do think it unfair that women cannot become pastors as they could bring an awful lot to the Church especially at a time where the numbers of priests are rapidly decreasing.
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Old 11-06-2009, 10:08 AM
 
9 posts, read 12,356 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Marks View Post
Nonsense
Could you specify as to what exactly you find to be nonsense in this?Is it not true that Mary is the mother of the Church while God is the father?or are you disputing the fact that Jesus saw men and women as equals and so would have wanted to hear equally from both groups?

Last edited by Blacksheep017; 11-06-2009 at 10:08 AM.. Reason: word mix up
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Old 11-06-2009, 10:09 AM
 
3,067 posts, read 4,103,910 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Blacksheep017 View Post
Is it not true that Mary is the mother of the Church
Mother of the church?

Who came up with that idea?
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Old 11-06-2009, 10:31 AM
 
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Paul makes two points in verse 11 about women in the church: they are to learn in silence and in submission. However there is no biblical references discouraging men to speak in the church
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