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So did God say He will have all mankind to be saved? or did God say He "will not have all mankind to be saved" per 1 Timothy 2:4-6?
Did God say He is the Saviour of all mankind or did He say He is not the Saviour of all mankind per 1 Timothy 4:10?
No, He did not. 2 Tim. tells us God has offered salvation to all, but not all will accept. From Matthew Henry's commentary:
God will have all men to be saved; he desires not the death and destruction of any (Eze. 33:11 ), but the welfare and salvation of all. Not that he has decreed the salvation of all, for then all men would be saved; but he has a good will to the salvation of all, and none perish but by their own fault, Mt. 23:37 .
From The People's NT Commentary
4. Who will have all men to be saved. The Scriptures uniformly represent it as the divine will that all should come to life. But he does not will to save men irrespective of the conditions of salvation. They must, in order to be saved, come to a knowledge of the truth. In other words, must hear, receive, and obey the gospel.
Christianity has been drinking carnal milk for over 2000+ years and ignoring the solid food of agape love that IS the Spirit we are all to share.
I Corinthians 3:1
. . . And I, brethren, could not speak to you as to spiritual men, but only as carnal, as to little ones in Christ. I fed you with milk, not solid food, for you were not yet ready for it. Nor are you now ready for it, for you are still carnal.
The one Spirit that is supposed to unite us is the Spirit who IS God . . . and God IS agape love.
1 Corinthians 12:4-13King James Version (KJV)
4Now there are diversities of gifts, but the same Spirit.
5And there are differences of administrations, but the same Lord.
6And there are diversities of operations, but it is the same God which worketh all in all.
7But the manifestation of the Spirit is given to every man to profit withal.
8For to one is given by the Spirit the word of wisdom; to another the word of knowledge by the same Spirit;
9To another faith by the same Spirit; to another the gifts of healing by the same Spirit;
10To another the working of miracles; to another prophecy; to another discerning of spirits; to another divers kinds of tongues; to another the interpretation of tongues:
11But all these worketh that one and the selfsame Spirit, dividing to every man severally as he will.
12For as the body is one, and hath many members, and all the members of that one body, being many, are one body: so also is Christ.
13For by one Spirit are we all baptized into one body, whether we be Jews or Gentiles, whether we be bond or free; and have been all made to drink into one Spirit.
Quote:
Originally Posted by jimmiej
Some yes, but not all. Paul spoke glowingly of some congregations and their love for others. In the letters to the seven churches, Jesus remarked that some were good and some were not.
Nevertheless, you know 1 Cor. Was NOT written to or about unbelievers.
You don't get it. The message is for everyone . . . not just those to whom it was originally delivered, jimmie. There is ONE God and we are ALL His children. There are no favorites.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Eusebius
So did God say He will have all mankind to be saved? or did God say He "will not have all mankind to be saved" per 1 Timothy 2:4-6?
Did God say He is the Saviour of all mankind or did He say He is not the Saviour of all mankind per 1 Timothy 4:10?
You don't get it. The message is for everyone . . . not just those to whom it was originally delivered, jimmie. There is ONE God and we are ALL His children. There are no favorites.
::sigh:: We're going in circles here.
For the last time, 1 Cor. 3 was/is for believers only. You admitted in an earlier post that the beginning of the letter appeared to confirm that.
OTOH, I agree, the gospel of Christ is for everyone, but that's not the matter at hand in 1 Cor. 3.
Christianity has been drinking carnal milk for over 2000+ years and ignoring the solid food of agape love that IS the Spirit we are all to share.
I Corinthians 3:1
. . . And I, brethren, could not speak to you as to spiritual men, but only as carnal, as to little ones in Christ. I fed you with milk, not solid food, for you were not yet ready for it. Nor are you now ready for it, for you are still carnal.
Quote:
Originally Posted by MysticPhD
You don't get it. The message is for everyone . . . not just those to whom it was originally delivered, jimmie. There is ONE God and we are ALL His children. There are no favorites.
Yes He did, Eusebius! Amen!
Quote:
Originally Posted by jimmiej
::sigh:: We're going in circles here.
For the last time, 1 Cor. 3 was/is for believers only. You admitted in an earlier post that the beginning of the letter appeared to confirm that.
OTOH, I agree, the gospel of Christ is for everyone, but that's not the matter at hand in 1 Cor. 3.
It was addressed to a specific audience . . . but THINK jimmie! You cannot possibly believe that if believers had to be fed carnal milk that it was not also necessary with unbelievers!!!
It was addressed to a specific audience . . . but THINK jimmie! You cannot possibly believe that if believers had to be fed carnal milk that it was not also necessary with unbelievers!!!
The Corinthian church had not progressed spiritually as they ought. Paul was chiding them for acting like "infants", spiritually speaking.
And I, brethren, could not speak to you as to spiritual men, but as to men of flesh, as to infants in Christ. 2 I gave you milk to drink, not solid food; for you were not yet able to receive it. Indeed, even now you are not yet able, 3 for you are still fleshly. For since there is jealousy and strife among you, are you not fleshly, and are you not walking like mere men? 4 For when one says, “I am of Paul,” and another, “I am of Apollos,” are you not mere men?
I remind you once again, from chapter 1:
To the church of God which is at Corinth, to those who have been sanctifiedin Christ Jesus, saints by calling, with all who in every place call on the name of our Lord Jesus Christ, their Lord and ours.
So did God say He will have all mankind to be saved? or did God say He "will not have all mankind to be saved" per 1 Timothy 2:4-6?
Did God say He is the Saviour of all mankind or did He say He is not the Saviour of all mankind per 1 Timothy 4:10?
Quote:
Originally Posted by jimmiej
No, He did not. 2 Tim. tells us God has offered salvation to all, but not all will accept. From Matthew Henry's commentary:
God will have all men to be saved; he desires not the death and destruction of any (Eze. 33:11 ), but the welfare and salvation of all. Not that he has decreed the salvation of all, for then all men would be saved; but he has a good will to the salvation of all, and none perish but by their own fault, Mt. 23:37 .
From The People's NT Commentary
4. Who will have all men to be saved. The Scriptures uniformly represent it as the divine will that all should come to life. But he does not will to save men irrespective of the conditions of salvation. They must, in order to be saved, come to a knowledge of the truth. In other words, must hear, receive, and obey the gospel.
John 3 makes it all very clear.
Wow! I'm simply flabberghasted!
God did not say he will NOT have all mankind to be saved. He said He will have all mankind to be saved.
God did not say He is NOT the Saviour of all mankind, ONLY them that believe. He said He IS the Saviour of all mankind ESPECIALLY (not exclusively) them that believe. See 1 Timothy 2:4-6; 4:10.
Interesting that Matthew Henry does not understand the two passages in view. First of all, even if God just DESIRED all mankind to be saved, we know He will still do that for the Bible says "All My desire I will do" (Isa.45:10).
Not only that, but the reason God says He will save all mankind and WILL bring all mankind into a knowledge of the truth is because Christ ransomed all of them (1 Tim.2:6). God never said "I will save all mankind only if they save themselves."
Now let's see, Matthew Henry believes if one is not saved it is their own fault. Therefore he must believe if one is saved it is all due to that person saving himself. God only made salvation possible according to Henry. All thanks to the allmighty free will!
John 3:17 actually proves all mankind must be saved.
The Corinthian church had not progressed spiritually as they ought. Paul was chiding them for acting like "infants", spiritually speaking. And I, brethren, could not speak to you as to spiritual men, but as to men of flesh, as to infants in Christ. 2 I gave you milk to drink, not solid food; for you were not yet able to receive it. Indeed, even now you are not yet able, 3 for you are still fleshly. For since there is jealousy and strife among you, are you not fleshly, and are you not walking like mere men? 4 For when one says, “I am of Paul,” and another, “I am of Apollos,” are you not mere men?
I remind you once again, from chapter 1: To the church of God which is at Corinth, to those who have been sanctifiedin Christ Jesus, saints by calling, with all who in every place call on the name of our Lord Jesus Christ, their Lord and ours.
Does that sound like it's addressed to everyone?
::Sigh::If the principle of carnality and the need for carnal milk is valid . . . it is certainly valid for unbelievers. Are you suggesting that unbelievers were less carnal than the believers???Are they likely to be less "infants" in Christ than believers???? The principle regarding the content of the message is universal for all carnal-minded receivers . . . including those today who retain the carnal milk and ancient ignorance of our ancetors' barbaric beliefs about God and His motives.
Just because I specifically write to someone does not restrict my comments to apply to only that person unless I specifically say YOU.
And I understand in Greek there is a singular you and an inclusive you......sort of like the southern......y'all, and all y'all.
If I write my kids and say I love everyone it does not mean, I love just the recipient(s) of the letter I'm writing. When those of us write on this forum that God will save everyone, we are NOT saying God will save only those people who read this forum. Now if I said everyone will get a treat tomorrow, ESPECIALLY those who were on their good behavior, it does not mean ONLY those who behaved well get a treat tomorrow. it means EVERYONE will get a treat and possibly the ones who behaved well will get cake AND ice cream too. It does not mean that some will get spanked.
But unless one understands that God works His Plan for Creation within the framework of ages (Plural) and not everyone is called to be a vessel of honor in the same age, or understand that judgment IS NOT permanent sentencing to horrific torture but exposure to whatever is necessary to cause remorse and repentance and light and truth to shine out of the most hateful soul. Nothing is impossible for God and to considre that God rejects his own creation....and He is the creator, nothing exists that was not created by God, is to not know God for He IS Love and every attribute He possesses will result in good for His creation, even the temporary and purposeful wrath and judgment. Crying will happen for a night, but JOY cometh in the morning......his wrath is temporary but His love is forever and will not fail. There are NO chances for salvation and completion for it was a done deal before life was ever breathed into the very first creature. God is great and greatly to be praised.
Just because I specifically write to someone does not restrict my comments to apply to only that person unless I specifically say YOU.
And I understand in Greek there is a singular you and an inclusive you......sort of like the southern......y'all, and all y'all.
If I write my kids and say I love everyone it does not mean, I love just the recipient(s) of the letter I'm writing. When those of us write on this forum that God will save everyone, we are NOT saying God will save only those people who read this forum. Now if I said everyone will get a treat tomorrow, ESPECIALLY those who were on their good behavior, it does not mean ONLY those who behaved well get a treat tomorrow. it means EVERYONE will get a treat and possibly the ones who behaved well will get cake AND ice cream too. It does not mean that some will get spanked.
But unless one understands that God works His Plan for Creation within the framework of ages (Plural) and not everyone is called to be a vessel of honor in the same age, or understand that judgment IS NOT permanent sentencing to horrific torture but exposure to whatever is necessary to cause remorse and repentance and light and truth to shine out of the most hateful soul. Nothing is impossible for God and to considre that God rejects his own creation....and He is the creator, nothing exists that was not created by God, is to not know God for He IS Love and every attribute He possesses will result in good for His creation, even the temporary and purposeful wrath and judgment. Crying will happen for a night, but JOY cometh in the morning......his wrath is temporary but His love is forever and will not fail. There are NO chances for salvation and completion for it was a done deal before life was ever breathed into the very first creature. God is great and greatly to be praised.
God did not say he will NOT have all mankind to be saved. He said He will have all mankind to be saved.
God did not say He is NOT the Saviour of all mankind, ONLY them that believe. He said He IS the Saviour of all mankind ESPECIALLY (not exclusively) them that believe. See 1 Timothy 2:4-6; 4:10.
Interesting that Matthew Henry does not understand the two passages in view. First of all, even if God just DESIRED all mankind to be saved, we know He will still do that for the Bible says "All My desire I will do" (Isa.45:10).
Not only that, but the reason God says He will save all mankind and WILL bring all mankind into a knowledge of the truth is because Christ ransomed all of them (1 Tim.2:6). God never said "I will save all mankind only if they save themselves."
Now let's see, Matthew Henry believes if one is not saved it is their own fault. Therefore he must believe if one is saved it is all due to that person saving himself. God only made salvation possible according to Henry. All thanks to the allmighty free will!
John 3:17 actually proves all mankind must be saved.
I believe you are misinterpreting the Timothy passage and John 3:17. All CAN be saved, but not all WILL. Read the rest of John 3.
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