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Going back to my above post, #14 (minus any reference to the "H" word ), it has been determined (by Robin) that a non-religious marriage is still considered valid in the eyes of God because they "carry alot of Godly influence even if the participants deny God."
So the question is (in response to the title of this thread): If a marriage is a marriage is a marriage, does it really make a difference how the Bible defines it? A judge at the county courthouse can marry two people, and apparently it is considered valid according to the reasoning we've seen in this thread. So are we seeking the definition of marriage, period....or are we seeking the definition of a religious marriage?
Well lets see a marriage has two parts whether religious or not and they are God given. Those two parts are a man and a woman, bride and groom, husband and wife and this is what some want to change. Lets see if I can relate this without going into an area we are not supposed to be in. If you have a Jet and wings on that jet it can fly. But if you just have two fussel lodges with no wings you dont fly. Lets say you have 2 buildings but no foundations, it wont work, but if you have a building with a foundation then it works. It is not a matter of whether a marriage is religious or not, God is still in control and the definition should stand.
Okay, the examples you gave.....totally nonsensical. But I'm not going there. Anyway...
The verse that you posted from Romans specifically states "And we know that in all things God works for the good of those who love him, who have been called according to his purpose." Clearly that doesn't fit in with what you said above about God being in control, and that there is a "godly influence" even if they deny God.
By your own reasoning, you indicated that even non-religious marriages are valid. That would include those performed outside a religious setting, such as in a courthouse....regardless of whether you recognize the legal validity of them or not. It's YOUR words, Robin. I'm just trying to understand what you're now trying to say. What definition of "marriage" are you seeking in this thread? Sounds to me like it's irrelevant according to you. So that would mean ALL legal marriages are valid in God's eyes, according to your reasoning.
The thing is, the truth won't change because people live a lie. (Not counting the present nascent United Nations) three out of the four world empires that have existed were run by a bureaucracy largely made up of third sex persons, "eunuchs." Families of the nobility even had their sons castrated to improve their opportunities for government service. Many married men seeking a male heir not only had their concubines; but, preferred their eunuch to women. Since they couldn't beget children but were in all other respects functional as males, women had sex with eunuchs, even in public. It was not thought perverse or wrong. It was a way of life.
Alexander the Great, the only man to militarily conquer the world was raised in Greek philosophy and not only had a male lover (Phaedron) who was a friend from his youth, but had an ongoing relationship with a eunuch (Bagoas) that had belonged to the king of Persia. Much more could be said of, for instance, the rhapsodizing of ancient philosphers over the love between a man and a boy.
As I said, the truth won't change because people live a lie. The world into which Jesus came was under the authority of the Roman Ceasars, of whom thirteen out of the first fifteen were homosexual. The Church thrived in such a world, but was seperate from it. Well, if you can call being thrown to the lions thriving.
Regardless of what the world and its governments do, The Church will never under any circumstance accept marriage except between one man and one woman. It never has and never will. However much of Institutional Christianity, which is apostate anyway, may make investitures, pronouncements or bylaws to the contrary, those who love God and mankind will not go along with it. Under force of arms, as has been demonstrated thoughout history, the followers of Jesus will not approve of marriage between members of the same sex or even sexual practices outside of marriage between one man and one woman, even at the pain of death. However bizarre the world's culture becomes, the people who know their God will still stay on the hard path to enter through the narrow gate of Life that has always been found but by few.
We can argue about various aspects of this matter now; but, let it be known, not only will the truth not change because people live a lie, but the people of God will not change even though the whole world follows after a lie they seek by any means possible to impose on everybody else.
Okay, the examples you gave.....totally nonsensical. But I'm not going there. Anyway...
The verse that you posted from Romans specifically states "And we know that in all things God works for the good of those who love him, who have been called according to his purpose." Clearly that doesn't fit in with what you said above about God being in control, and that there is a "godly influence" even if they deny God.
By your own reasoning, you indicated that even non-religious marriages are valid. That would include those performed outside a religious setting, such as in a courthouse....regardless of whether you recognize the legal validity of them or not. It's YOUR words, Robin. I'm just trying to understand what you're now trying to say. What definition of "marriage" are you seeking in this thread? Sounds to me like it's irrelevant according to you. So that would mean ALL legal marriages are valid in God's eyes, according to your reasoning.
All marriages based on Gods definition are valid whether they acknowledge God or not.
All marriages based on Gods definition are valid whether they acknowledge God or not.
And you base that on.........what??
You're not being consistent with what you said previously, Robin. You provided a verse from Romans which had nothing to do with my question about what you meant regarding "godly influence".
The thing is, the truth won't change because people live a lie. (Not counting the present nascent United Nations) three out of the four world empires that have existed were run by a bureaucracy largely made up of third sex persons, "eunuchs." Families of the nobility even had their sons castrated to improve their opportunities for government service. Many married men seeking a male heir not only had their concubines; but, preferred their eunuch to women. Since they couldn't beget children but were in all other respects functional as males, women had sex with eunuchs, even in public. It was not thought perverse or wrong. It was a way of life.
Alexander the Great, the only man to militarily conquer the world was raised in Greek philosophy and not only had a male lover (Phaedron) who was a friend from his youth, but had an ongoing relationship with a eunuch (Bagoas) that had belonged to the king of Persia. Much more could be said of, for instance, the rhapsodizing of ancient philosphers over the love between a man and a boy.
As I said, the truth won't change because people live a lie. The world into which Jesus came was under the authority of the Roman Ceasars, of whom thirteen out of the first fifteen were homosexual. The Church thrived in such a world, but was seperate from it. Well, if you can call being thrown to the lions thriving.
Regardless of what the world and its governments do, The Church will never under any circumstance accept marriage except between one man and one woman. It never has and never will. However much of Institutional Christianity, which is apostate anyway, may make investitures, pronouncements or bylaws to the contrary, those who love God and mankind will not go along with it. Under force of arms, as has been demonstrated thoughout history, the followers of Jesus will not approve of marriage between members of the same sex or even sexual practices outside of marriage between one man and one woman, even at the pain of death. However bizarre the world's culture becomes, the people who know their God will still stay on the hard path to enter through the narrow gate of Life that has always been found but by few.
We can argue about various aspects of this matter now; but, let it be known, not only will the truth not change because people live a lie, but the people of God will not change even though the whole world follows after a lie they seek by any means possible to impose on everybody else.
We're striving to keep this on-topic after Robin and I got into a heated debate before which resulted in our posts being deleted. So I'm not saying anything regarding homosexuality. I'm simply questioning the reasoning Robin is using.
marriage is not defined by the bible that stopped in 1974.
marriage has been redefined in strong legal terms.
see the lawyer b4 not after.
Well, apparently there is a problem with that according to Robin. He claims that ALL marriages are valid since they have an element of godly influence (though he won't define what he means by that) because it is a legal covenant...even if the people deny God. But apparently there are some legal covenants he refuses to acknowledge as valid marriages. He's in a bit of a pickle right now, because it appears he is contradicting himself.
Ya this post is good, many people in the ancient world would never consider marrying the same sex. It was more of a hobby for them. It was not unusual to be married and have male lovers or boi lovers on the side.
The practice of boi love is still practiced today in parts of Afghanistan. As gross and repugnant as it may be.
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), it has been determined (by Robin) that a non-religious marriage is still considered valid in the eyes of God because they "carry alot of Godly influence even if the participants deny God."
