Mysticism and Christianity. Is there unity? (preaching, scripture, prayers, sin)

[MysticPhD]

Originally Posted by aquila

CG, I can't for the life of me begin to fathom how you would disagree with what Tony Campolo said in that video. I shake my head in wonder, truly. I'm disappointed in how you and other fundamentalists act. I really am. As far as I'm concerned, what Tony said in that video is spot on and full of much more truth than anything a fundamentalist could say to me.

And as far as what it says in the Bible verse you posted, how are you so sure that Paul isn't referring to fundamentalists like YOU?? After all, fundamentalist thought/doctrine didn't even come onto the scene until many centuries after the early church was established.

The warnings of Satan's deceits infiltrating the church occurred long before a bible ever existed. If it is Satan's goal to separate souls from God despite Jesus (God) coming to save us ALL . . . it would seem important to get us to believe that NOT ALL will be saved . . . and then make THAT the banner around which the Satan contingents could rally as the special ones to be saved. . AS IF they were rallying for God. It appeals to the sinful nature and desires of human beings to be special and would be perfect for such a clever deceiver as Satan.

Getting such deceits into the yet-to-be-created-and-politically-compiled bible surely would have been one of Satan's top priorities. Convincing everyone that it wasn't just USEFUL for spiritual edification, etc. . . . but that it was INERRANT and should be interpreted literally (as carnal minds naturally would) . . . and not spiritually as Jesus taught . . . would have been a necessary priority for Satan as well.

Jesus came to bring us unambiguous proof by example of the TRUE NATURE of God to eliminate the primitive fear and bring out "love of God and each other." Fear is the enemy of love. Surely it would also have been a top priority of Satan to keep the fear of God going . . . despite the fact that it was only the "beginning of Wisdom"(for our primitive ancestors) . . . NOT the end. This would insure that fewer would actually exhibit this love and remain motivated by fear of God . . . NOT "love of God and each other."

It seems far more likely to me that the contingent represented by CG, et al. are the ones referred to in prophecy. They have been deceived and are working for the wrong side . . . DIVIDING us in the false belief that only the special ones will be saved. Believing that Jesus was lying when He said He came to save us ALL. I hope I am wrong.

[aquila]

Originally Posted by carolina_guy

I don't know how many aquila, that's in the Lord's hands.

Then how can you possibly act like judge and jury by inferring that Tony Campolo is not winning souls?

Originally Posted by carolina_guy

And not everyone who hears actually listens.

Maybe they choose not to because they don't share your view of theology.

Originally Posted by carolina_guy

This is not about "my view" it's about salvation through Jesus Christ, and anyone not preaching salvation comes through the blood of Christ shed on the cross, then it's not of God. Do you not believe this?

I don't answer to you for what I believe, CG. You dogmatically declare that you want people to know the truth, but the fact is you want them to know the truth as you see it....according to YOUR interpretation of the Bible. Or more to the point, according to some fundamentalist interpretation.

And besides, if I say I don't accept your theological viewpoint, you'll judge me as not understanding the truth. Am I correct?

Originally Posted by carolina_guy

Do you think it's ok to teach love but not teach salvation?

Yes, as a matter of fact I do. Because we aren't all planters of the seed, CG. Some of us are waterers, and some of us are nurturers. We aren't all evangelists or preachers. Some of us are teachers. Some of us are counselors. I don't believe it is necessary for every Christian to witness to others about Jesus. Sometimes it is just their place to inspire and encourage.

Originally Posted by carolina_guy

How do you know I don't demonstrate love every day? Do you know me?

I don't pretend to know you. I never said you don't demonstrate love. What I meant was that all this rambling on that you do here about mysticism is obsessive. You simply can't accept that others don't share your fundamentalist viewpoints. I stated you are not affecting me or changing my views - and though I can't speak for others, I doubt it is affecting anyone else either. So I meant that maybe the time you spend rambling on obsessively about mysticism would be better spent preaching a message of love to people. In other words, find something uplifting to preach about that actually draws people closer to Jesus, instead of constantly starting all these threads which are nothing more than cleverly disguised pot shots at those who believe in mysticism.

Originally Posted by carolina_guy

Have you read EVERY single post I have posted in EVERY single thread? Do you follow me around in real life and see how I act around people? Do you see the actions I do to show the love of God? I pray for this every day just so you know--that God makes me a beacon of light through my actions, and that His love is shown through me.

Get...a...grip, CG. I didn't say you don't demonstate God's love to others. Where in my post did I say that? I don't make it a habit of presuming to know what the private lives of others are like. I simply commented (in question form) that it is much greater to show the love of Christ to others as opposed to simply telling them about it. That's what I hear Tony Campolo doing. I expressed my amazement that you don't seem to get that [about him].

Originally Posted by carolina_guy

My point was that you can feed a million mouths and still go to hell. That's what I mean. Good works do not guarantee you anything but a pat on the back.

Thank you for the clarification. But I have to assume you are inferring that Tony is going to hell...?

Originally Posted by carolina_guy

You don't know me aquila, so don't assume that you do.

I'd never do that.

Originally Posted by carolina_guy

I have tried time and time again to be nice to you, but at every turn you're butting heads with me. I have done nothing to you but tried to answer your questions and even offered to help you with your struggles. I guess that's not the love of Christ in your eyes? Me offering to help you get through your anger issues, by even PAYING for a book for you, isn't showing the love of Christ?

You want to know why I declined that offer for you to buy that book, CG? Because it would have meant divulging my name and address to you. Do you really think it's wise to give out that information to a total stranger from an internet message board?

[carolina_guy]

Originally Posted by aquila

Then how can you possibly act like judge and jury by inferring that Tony Campolo is not winning souls?

Tony is a mystic who teaches a social gospel. I'm not going by just that video. Show me where he is preaching the Gospel of Jesus Christ and I will apologize promptly.

I don't answer to you for what I believe, CG. You dogmatically declare that you want people to know the truth, but the fact is you want them to know the truth as you see it....according to YOUR interpretation of the Bible. Or more to the point, according to some fundamentalist interpretation.

Call it fundamentalist, call it whatever you want, aquila, but there is only one truth and that is the Gospel of Jesus Christ.

And besides, if I say I don't accept your theological viewpoint, you'll judge me as not understanding the truth. Am I correct?

It's not my viewpoint, aquila, the Gospel of Jesus Christ is the only way to obtain saving grace from God.

Yes, as a matter of fact I do. Because we aren't all planters of the seed, CG. Some of us are waterers, and some of us are nurturers. We aren't all evangelists or preachers. Some of us are teachers. Some of us are counselors. I don't believe it is necessary for every Christian to witness to others about Jesus. Sometimes it is just their place to inspire and encourage.

I agree 100% aquila, that's why I have such a hard time understanding you ridiculing another part of the Body (me). You act as if posts on mysticism are the only ones I create or post in. I bet I've created no more than 5-10 mysticism threads since I've been posting here.

You simply can't accept that others don't share your fundamentalist viewpoints.

Have you seen me throw a fit when people don't accept the truth I share, aquila? I am just a messenger, it's not my place to remove the scales, that's the work of the Holy Spirit.

I stated you are not affecting me or changing my views - and though I can't speak for others, I doubt it is affecting anyone else either.

My reps and DM's have said otherwise.

So I meant that maybe the time you spend rambling on obsessively about mysticism would be better spent preaching a message of love to people.

You may not be concerned about the dangers infiltrating the Church, but I am. I am a defender of the Word, and when it is challenged, I will step in. But these are not the only threads I have made. I know my heart and so does God.

In other words, find something uplifting to preach about that actually draws people closer to Jesus,

I've actually started several such threads where I've never seen you participate in. Why is that?

instead of constantly starting all these threads which are nothing more than cleverly disguised pot shots at those who believe in mysticism.

There is nothing clever and there is nothing disguised. I don't make this stuff up. Have you ever once considered that these things I post about mysticism actually mean something? That there is indeed a great movement of apostasy occurring in the Church? Have you ever considered that people are dying not knowing the truth of Jesus Christ because they were told all that matters is love, and you don't really need salvation? Have you ever thought that those teaching good works only are sending people to hell? Is this not a concern for you?

Thank you for the clarification. But I have to assume you are inferring that Tony is going to hell...?

I have no idea. But I've never heard him preach the Gospel of Jesus Christ either, so what does that mean?

You want to know why I declined that offer for you to buy that book, CG? Because it would have meant divulging my name and address to you. Do you really think it's wise to give out that information to a total stranger from an internet message board?

It doesn't bother me you declined, aquila. I was simply pointing out I was showing you love by this gesture, because I do care for you. I care for everyone here, even the mystics.

This is the last post I will be discussing with you in this thread. Please consider my questions in this post as rhetorical. Have a good night and I mean that.

[roneb]

Originally Posted by carolina_guy

June, by nature, mysticism leads people away from the cross. If a person is saved having traveled through mysticism, it is only because the Holy Spirit called them out of it. That person being saved has nothing to do with mysticism.

Then through the ages there are a lot of very holy men and women who were "lead away from the cross" by their practice of mysticism. Mysticism has at least as much of a historical significance in the history of Christianity as fundamentalism.

[aquila]

Originally Posted by carolina_guy

This is the last post I will be discussing with you in this thread. Please consider my questions in this post as rhetorical. Have a good night and I mean that.

If you're satisfied getting the last word in, fine. I think it's a bit inconsiderate of you to not allow me to respond back to the points you've made, but I'm used to that. It's what my best friend did to me when she cut me out of her life. So I don't expect otherwise from people, and especially not when it comes to fundamentalists.

[roneb]

Originally Posted by carolina_guy

How do you know if what you are praying to is from God if you are not following the Jesus of Scripture? There are many spirits one could be praying to if they are not praying to the one true God, Jesus His son, with the help of the Holy Spirit.

You are making the assumption that mysticism and a study of Scripture are mutually exclusive and cannot coexist. This is most certainly not the case.

[carolina_guy]

Originally Posted by aquila

If you're satisfied getting the last word in, fine. I think it's a bit inconsiderate of you to not allow me to respond back to the points you've made, but I'm used to that. It's what my best friend did to me when she cut me out of her life. So I don't expect otherwise from people, and especially not when it comes to fundamentalists.

Feel free to respond, I just don't want to keep going in circles.

[carolina_guy]

Originally Posted by roneb

Then through the ages there are a lot of very holy men and women who were "lead away from the cross" by their practice of mysticism. Mysticism has at least as much of a historical significance in the history of Christianity as fundamentalism.

If they never accepted Christ as their Savior, then yes.

[carolina_guy]

Originally Posted by roneb

You are making the assumption that mysticism and a study of Scripture are mutually exclusive and cannot coexist. This is most certainly not the case.

Show me where mysticism preaches the Gospel?

[effie g-tad]

show me where "preaching the gospel" has prevented mankind from being where it is right now.