Hi kdbrich,
Nope, never been a Jehovah's Witness or 7th day adventist.
If you go to
http://www.concordant.org that would be a good start where I get my core beliefs.
What do I do with Paul's statement? Well, friend, Paul never said that statement the way you stated it. Here is how Paul stated it:
2Co 5:6 Being, then, courageous always, and aware that, being at home in the body, we are away from home from the Lord"
2Co 5:8 We are confident, I say, and willing rather to be absent from the body, and to be present with the Lord. (Authorized Version)
2Co 5:8 yet we are encouraged, and are delighting rather to be away from home out of the body and to be at home with the Lord." (Concordant Literal)
6 The article "the" in Greek, sometimes has almost the force of our "this". "The body" is not simply a body, but a particular body, that is, this body in which we are at home now. We have two homes. The tabernacle in which we now live and the eonian house in the resurrection; the soulish body and the spiritual body. We may be away from one home yet present in the other. Now we are away from home, from the Lord. Yet we would much prefer to be away from this home and be at home in our spiritual body, with the Lord. We have no third home, and if we had, the apostle has just made it clear that the naked, unsheltered condition is not at all to be desired. He could hardly reverse that conviction without some further explanation. (A.E. Knoch, Concordant Commentary)
And here is an article on this topic from the magazine I help produce. This is the 100th year this magazine has been put out.
"ABSENT FROM THE BODY--PRESENT WITH THE LORD"
This quotation is not from the Scriptures, but rather a
popular mis-quotation of 2 Corinthians 5:8. The contention is
that "absent from the body" can be true only in a disembodied
state before the resurrection. This looks very plausible and
demands consideration. The statement that "absent from the body"
can only be realized in resurrection has been held up to ridicule
on the ground that, in resurrection, we are
not "absent from the
body."
A careful canvas of the context will show, however, that the
reference is not merely to
a body, but to this burdensome body
which we lay aside, and not to our glorious bodies of the
resurrection.
p205 This Present Body
First of all, let us consider the statement of 2 Corinthians
5:6, last clause:
"whilst we are at home in the body, we are absent from
the Lord" (AUTHORIZED VERSION).
"being at home in the body, we are away from home from
the Lord" (CONCORDANT VERSION).
All will agree that the body here referred to can only be
this body, not the spiritual body which we get in resurrection,
for we will
not be away from the Lord when we are at home in our
heavenly habitation. The sense absolutely demands that we restrict
the word "body" to the present burdensome tent or tabernacle.
Consider also, a few lines later; 2 Corinthians 5:10:
"For we must all appear before the judgment seat of
Christ; that every one may receive the things done in his
body, according to that he hath done, whether it be good or
bad" (AUTHORIZED VERSION).
"For all of us must be manifested in front of the dais of
Christ, that each should be requited for that which he puts
into practice through the body, whether good or bad"
(CONCORDANT VERSION).
Here, too, at the
bema or dais of Christ, we are compelled
to limit the application to the deeds done in
this body, not in
the one we shall then wear.
In both of these passages the definite article (the) is
depended on in the Greek to point out that not simply a body is
intended but
the body of which Paul has been speaking. It will
appear from this that an English version would be justified in
treating the article as a demonstrative pronoun, which it really
is in some passages. We might render it "this" without even going
as far as the Authorized has done in inserting "this" in the first
verse of the chapter.
But to the Scripture in point: it occurs midway between the
two passages which have been quoted. It contains exactly the same
words and in exactly the same grammatical construction as the one
last quoted. It is this (2 Cor.5:8):
"rather to be away from home out of the body and to be at
home with the Lord." (CONCORDANT VERSION).
p206 Consider the Context
We now have, in a continuous connection, these three
occurrences of the word "body:"
Verse 6,
too soomati to the body.
Verse 8,
tou soomatos of the body.
Verse 10,
tou soomatos of the body.
In the first and last the sense is limited to
this body.
Why not in the other?
Consider, also, the context, especially the first four verses
of the chapter. The apostle had no desire to be "unclothed." Why
should he change his mind so suddenly and now "much prefer" the
unclothed condition?
The form which this text usually takes--"absent from the
body: present with the Lord," is unscriptural and comes under the
condemnation of 2 Timothy 1:13. When this text is read in the
light of its context (always the best way), we cannot at all see
how it can be forced to teach that "sudden death" is "sudden
glory." This thought arises and is fostered by the omission of the
words which are (unconsciously, perhaps) repudiated--
and to be.
The very fact that these words are almost universally discarded by
those who use this text in opposition to the truth shows that they
are an encumbrance to their understanding of the meaning of the
passage. A true appreciation of the message conveyed absolutely
demands that we retain them. It does not make them "of none
effect."
It is well, then, to attune our hearts and heads to the
spirit of the passage, which is not to contrast
a body with the
Lord's presence, but this temporary, burdened tent with the eonian
weight of glory which awaits us. In
this we groan, earnestly
longing, not for the naked state of death, but the clothed eonian
condition. Thus this Scripture agrees with the general tenor of
God's Word, which teaches that those whom we reckon as dead have
only been put to sleep (1 Thess.4:14).
"THEM WHICH SLEEP IN JESUS WILL GOD BRING WITH HIM"
The silence of Scripture as to the state between death
p207 The State of the Dead
and resurrection is most marked. Men are foolish enough to say
that no one has ever returned from the realm of the dead, so that
we might inquire as to what they saw and how they felt. Did not
Lazarus come back after a sojourn of four days? What had he to
say?
Nothing. But the apostle Paul, when seeking to relieve the
feelings of the distressed Thessalonians speaks right to the
point. "
I would not have you to be ignorant, brethren, concerning
them which are asleep..." Surely
now we will have some light on
the vexed question! Our ignorance is to be taken away. We are to
know! But not a word is given concerning the present state of
those who are sleeping (except the fact that they
are asleep).
We are pointed forward to resurrection. Not a present harp but a
future hope. And this is further emphasized by the statement that
we who are alive and remain to the presence of the Lord shall not
precede them! If they are already in His presence these words
are worse than nonsense. They have not preceded us nor will we
precede them in that glorious day, but together shall enter the
Presence Ineffable.
Once more we are compelled to call attention to the defective
translation which has been the cause of the difficulty in this
passage. The following is the Greek and a consistent sublinear of
1 Thessalonians 4:14,15, followed by the Concordant Version
rendering:
ei gar pisteuomen oti ieesous apethanen kai
IF FOR WE-ARE-BELIEVING THAT JESUS DIED AND
anestee outoos kai o theos tous koimeethentas dia
UP-STOOD THUS AND THE GOD THE (ones) -BEING-REPOSED THRU
tou ieesou axei sun autoo touto gar umin
THE JESUS WILL-BE-LEADING TOGETHER TO-HIM THIS FOR to-YOU
legomen en logoo kuriou oti eemeis oi zoontes
WE-ARE-SAYING IN SAYING OF-MASTER THAT WE THE LIVING
oi perileipomenoi eis teen parousian tou
THE (ones) -SURVIVING -INTO THE BESIDE-BEING OF-THE
kuriou ou mee phthasoomen tous koimeethentas
MASTER NOT NO SHOULD-BE-OUT-STRIPPING THE (ones) -REPOSING
p208 Dead and Living Meet Him
Together
For, if we are believing that Jesus died and rose, thus
also, those who are put to repose, will God, through Jesus,
lead forth together with Him. For this we are saying to you
by the word of the Lord, that we, the living, who are
surviving to the presence of the Lord, should by no means
outstrip those who are put to repose...
The death and resurrection of the Lord Jesus is the great
example for all His saints. Just as God raised Him, so He will
raise us through Him (2 Cor.4:14). It is a great pity that we
should even be asked to look upon such a phrase as "sleep in
Jesus" or even the revisers marginal correction "sleep
through
Jesus," for He is not and will not be the Author of death, but of
life. It is a most incongruous idea to give Him the work of the
Adversary (who has the jurisdiction of death, Heb.2:14), and have
God working counter to Him and without Him in resurrection. No,
indeed. We believe that God has raised Him and, since we are one
with Him, how can it be otherwise than that God will bring us from
the dead
with Him and
through Him?
So that, when He comes to call His waiting people unto
Himself, He does not bring the dead with Him to earth, but brings
them with Him from death.
Let us, for the moment, suppose that the dead had already
been with Him in the heavens. How then shall we reconcile this
with the very next statement? We who survive, says the apostle,
shall not
precede (outstrip) those who are asleep. How foolish
this would sound if the
dead had already preceded
us, some of
them for nearly two thousand years! We shall not get ahead of
them, even if they are asleep, for we are assured that
both-together--those who have fallen asleep and we who
survive--we shall unite to meet Him in the air. And
thus--in
resurrection--shall we always be together with the Lord! Not
disembodied, but with glorious bodies. That glad day is not
satisfied with introducing the living alone to their Lord, but the
dead too, shall accompany them to our gathering together unto Him.
Then we shall be like Him. Then we shall be for Him. And
He
shall
p209 Dead and Living Meet Him "Together"
be satisfied with us, for His beauty will be seen in us. His glory
shall shine through us; His love will illumine us. But, best of
all, God will gain the goal of His heart's desire when death and
distance are defeated and life and love have brought His creatures
back into His bosom.
These are the principal texts which are adduced to prove an
intermediate state. The closer they are read, the more apparent it
becomes that they are
perversions. They reflect the theology of
the translators, instead of the inspired Word of God. Whom shall
we believe--God or man? As for us, let it be ours to know and to
appreciate Him through His Word, and to tear aside every veil that
bars our raptured gaze. (A. E. Knoch, Unsearchable Riches vol.54)
To be continued
Please register to participate in our discussions with 2 million other members - it's free and quick! Some forums can only be seen by registered members. After you create your account, you'll be able to customize options and access all our 15,000 new posts/day with fewer ads.
