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13- Therefore did that which is good become a cause of death for me? May it never be! Rather it was sin, in order that it might be shown to be sin by effecting my death through that which is good, that through the commandment sin might become utterly sinful.
** Here is the next logical question - is the Law the cause of death?
** The answer to the question is that the Law is not sin. Sin is sin - and it caused death through that which is holy.
14 - For we know that the Law is spiritual; but I am of flesh, sold into the bondage of sin.
** For this section of Scripture, it is good to know the three parts that make up the total man. The spirit (conscience), the soul (thoughts and decisions), and the body make up the man.
** The spirit is the conscious of the man. In the believer, the Holy Spirit is the conscious. In unbelievers, it's a corrupted human spirit.
** The soul is the battleground. This is where the mind comes into play. Our thoughts can come from our spirit or our flesh or from what we know or believe. 2 Cor. 10:3-5 says that the war is on this level. What will we choose to follow - the Spirit or the flesh?
** The body is the flesh. It was corrupted at the fall and must return to the earth after we die. It has desires and lusts that must be controlled in order to live a successful Christian life.
** We are sold into bondage of sin through the fall.
15- For that which I am doing, I do not understand; for I am not practicing what I would like to do, but I am doing the very thing that I hate.
** There seems to be a disconnect here. Paul, in trying to follow the Law, knows what he wants to do, but he doesn't do it.
** The next few verses display Paul trying to follow the Law through the flesh.
** The mind knows the Law, but the body is corrupt, and the mind is not being fed the truth.
16- But if I do the very thing I do not wish to do, I agree with the Law, confessing that it is good.
17- So now, no longer am I the one doing it, but sin which indwells me.
** This is the result of sin's deception.
** The sin that indwells is his fleshly self - either the body or old sinful thoughts.
18- For I know that nothing good dwells in me, that is, in my flesh; for the wishing is present in me, but the doing of the good is not.
** Notice that he knows the status of his fleshly self.
19- For the good that I wish, I do not do; but I practice the very evil that I do not wish.
20- But if I am doing the very thing I do not wish, I am no longer the one doing it, but sin which dwells in me.
** The sin that is in him is the culprit.
21- I find the the principle that evil is present in me, the one who wishes to do good.
** This is the case for all of us. Evil resides in us. Paul explains in the next two verses.
22- For I joyfully concur with the law of God in the inner man,
23- but I see a different law in the members of my body, waging war against the law of my mind, and making me a prisoner of the law of sin which is in my members.
** Paul describes this struggle as a war. As long as we are on the earth, and we have these bodies - there will be this war.
** On one side we have the law of God. On the other side is the law in the members of our bodies. The law in our members wars against what's in our minds - for our minds know what the Law of God says. But since we can not escape the members of our bodies on this earth, we are considered as prisoners.
24- Wretched man that I am!
** Paul expresses his frustration. If we are trapped inside these fleshly, sinful containers, how do we escape?
Conclusion for this section:
There is an "I" in every verse. There is no mention of faith, and no call for help from the Holy Spirit - and because of that, Paul failed in his efforts to keep the Law.
Remember the point of this section - it is not the law that causes death - but it is sin. The Law is good, shows us our sin, and brings us to Christ.
Sin is deceitful in that we are fooled into thinking we can keep the Law. But as v. 23 says - we are prisoners to the law of sin in our members - and we can't keep the Law.
Paul presents the sin in us as a law - not like a law or rules - but a law such as the law of gravity - in other words, something happens 100% of the time. A ball that is dropped always goes down, never up. That is the law of gravity. All people are infected with sin. That is the law of sin in us.
13- Therefore did that which is good become a cause of death for me? May it never be! Rather it was sin, in order that it might be shown to be sin by effecting my death through that which is good, that through the commandment sin might become utterly sinful.
** Here is the next logical question - is the Law the cause of death?
** The answer to the question is that the Law is not sin. Sin is sin - and it caused death through that which is holy.
14 - For we know that the Law is spiritual; but I am of flesh, sold into the bondage of sin.
** For this section of Scripture, it is good to know the three parts that make up the total man. The spirit (conscience), the soul (thoughts and decisions), and the body make up the man.
** The spirit is the conscious of the man. In the believer, the Holy Spirit is the conscious. In unbelievers, it's a corrupted human spirit.
** The soul is the battleground. This is where the mind comes into play. Our thoughts can come from our spirit or our flesh or from what we know or believe. 2 Cor. 10:3-5 says that the war is on this level. What will we choose to follow - the Spirit or the flesh?
** The body is the flesh. It was corrupted at the fall and must return to the earth after we die. It has desires and lusts that must be controlled in order to live a successful Christian life.
** We are sold into bondage of sin through the fall.
15- For that which I am doing, I do not understand; for I am not practicing what I would like to do, but I am doing the very thing that I hate.
** There seems to be a disconnect here. Paul, in trying to follow the Law, knows what he wants to do, but he doesn't do it.
** The next few verses display Paul trying to follow the Law through the flesh.
** The mind knows the Law, but the body is corrupt, and the mind is not being fed the truth.
16- But if I do the very thing I do not wish to do, I agree with the Law, confessing that it is good.
17- So now, no longer am I the one doing it, but sin which indwells me.
** This is the result of sin's deception.
** The sin that indwells is his fleshly self - either the body or old sinful thoughts.
18- For I know that nothing good dwells in me, that is, in my flesh; for the wishing is present in me, but the doing of the good is not.
** Notice that he knows the status of his fleshly self.
19- For the good that I wish, I do not do; but I practice the very evil that I do not wish.
20- But if I am doing the very thing I do not wish, I am no longer the one doing it, but sin which dwells in me.
** The sin that is in him is the culprit.
21- I find the the principle that evil is present in me, the one who wishes to do good.
** This is the case for all of us. Evil resides in us. Paul explains in the next two verses.
22- For I joyfully concur with the law of God in the inner man,
23- but I see a different law in the members of my body, waging war against the law of my mind, and making me a prisoner of the law of sin which is in my members.
** Paul describes this struggle as a war. As long as we are on the earth, and we have these bodies - there will be this war.
** On one side we have the law of God. On the other side is the law in the members of our bodies. The law in our members wars against what's in our minds - for our minds know what the Law of God says. But since we can not escape the members of our bodies on this earth, we are considered as prisoners.
24- Wretched man that I am!
** Paul expresses his frustration. If we are trapped inside these fleshly, sinful containers, how do we escape?
I find it utterly incomprehensible how you can conduct this study using expressions like "fleshly self" "the body is the flesh" members of the body" "must be controlled" . . . and NOT understand that you are talking about our animal nature and the need for us to develop self-control over it????? ???? There seems to be a significant logical disconnect in your rationale.
Man lives in two worlds...a natural world, and a spiritual world.
Simultaniously, while things are happening in the natural world, things are also happening in the spiritual world. Since all truth is parallel, ths applies to man's warfare between the flesh and the spirit...the desire given by God to be free from sin and rebellion, while experiencing the temptation to please the flesh and succumb to doing the very things that are carnal and which grieve the Spirit of God.
In the natural world our thoughts (which involve our imaginations, attitudes and preconceived ideas), circumstances, emotions, speech, hearing and vision are all influenced, governed, or controlled by the natural man.
The spiritual world is where a person is living in a rythm of miracles...a freedom from the bondage of sin and death. In this spiritual world our thoughts (which involve our imaginations, attitudes, and any preconceived ideas), circumstances, emotions, speach, hearing, and vision are all influenced, governed, or controlled by the Holy Spirit and faith that is based on the infallible...impregnable Word of God.
Paul is saying that the natural man is the part of us that is ruled by our senses, dominated by our old habits and by the power of sin. The spiritual man is the part of us that is redeemed by the Blood of the Lamb...saved by His grace...and free from the laws of sin and death. This is the part of us that is yeilded to the working and control of the Holy Spirit within us...if, in fact, he is.
The natural man is a slave to the law and to sin.
The spiritual man is delivered from the law, no longer a captive to the dictates of the flesh.
Since many Christians don't understand this chapter, they use it to justify sinning; since, after all, Paul was a sinning Christian in their minds. That is not the case. In Romans chapter 7, Paul is describing his condition as a Pharisee under the law. However, when he met Jesus on the road to Damascus, everything changed. In Romans 8, Paul tells us how it's supposed to be as we walk in the Spirit and live free from all sin.
Paul was a great teacher for explaining the law vs grace. If we walk in the Spirit, then we won't fulfill the lusts of the flesh. If we walk according to the flesh, then we are under the law -- whether we profess Jesus or not.
Since many Christians don't understand this chapter, they use it to justify sinning; since, after all, Paul was a sinning Christian in their minds. That is not the case. In Romans chapter 7, Paul is describing his condition as a Pharisee under the law. However, when he met Jesus on the road to Damascus, everything changed. In Romans 8, Paul tells us how it's supposed to be as we walk in the Spirit and live free from all sin.
Paul was a great teacher for explaining the law vs grace. If we walk in the Spirit, then we won't fulfill the lusts of the flesh. If we walk according to the flesh, then we are under the law -- whether we profess Jesus or not.
SCGraham - I agree except I believe Paul is describing His life in Christ.
He wrote that chapter in present tense form. "Wretched man that I am" - not 'Wretched man that I was'. Verse 21 - Evil is present is him.
He acknowledges the continuing war with his fleshly members.
I find it utterly incomprehensible how you can conduct this study using expressions like "fleshly self" "the body is the flesh" members of the body" "must be controlled" . . . and NOT understand that you are talking about our animal nature and the need for us to develop self-control over it????? ???? There seems to be a significant logical disconnect in your rationale.
You're right - there is a disconnect, that's for sure.
Humans do not have an animal instinct. We have a body, soul, and spirit. I think I mentioned that in one of my prior posts.
1 Thess. 5:23 - Now may the God of peace Himself sanctify you entirely; and may your spirit and soul and body be preserved complete, without blame at the coming of our Lord Jesus Christ.
Animals do not have a spirit - it is unique to humans, given to us from God.
We can act like animals by simply satisfying our desires - but we are not animals and do not have an animal nature.
Regarding these posts and Paul's writing - the body is the physical body which has its urges and desires - the soul is the decision making entity within us - the spirit is our inner conscience.
SCGraham - I agree except I believe Paul is describing His life in Christ.
He wrote that chapter in present tense form. "Wretched man that I am" - not 'Wretched man that I was'. Verse 21 - Evil is present is him.
He acknowledges the continuing war with his fleshly members.
You have to start earlier in the chapter.
Romans 7
5 For when we were in the flesh, the motions of sins, which were by the law, did work in our members to bring forth fruit unto death.
6 But now we are delivered from the law, that being dead wherein we were held; that we should serve in newness of spirit, and not in the oldness of the letter.
Paul goes on after this to describe his condition under the law. Study this chapter carefully with the Holy Spirit as your guide.
You're right - there is a disconnect, that's for sure.
Humans do not have an animal instinct. We have a body, soul, and spirit. I think I mentioned that in one of my prior posts.
1 Thess. 5:23 - Now may the God of peace Himself sanctify you entirely; and may your spirit and soul and body be preserved complete, without blame at the coming of our Lord Jesus Christ.
Animals do not have a spirit - it is unique to humans, given to us from God.
We can act like animals by simply satisfying our desires - but we are not animals and do not have an animal nature.
Regarding these posts and Paul's writing - the body is the physical body which has its urges and desires - the soul is the decision making entity within us - the spirit is our inner conscience.
::SIGH:: You are sadly in need of an education about the source of human and animal behavior and motivation. Alas the prohibition against learning any of "man's worldly wisdom" has probably shielded you from it . . . and any other intelligent understanding of reality as well.
Romans 7
5 For when we were in the flesh, the motions of sins, which were by the law, did work in our members to bring forth fruit unto death.
6 But now we are delivered from the law, that being dead wherein we were held; that we should serve in newness of spirit, and not in the oldness of the letter.
Paul goes on after this to describe his condition under the law. Study this chapter carefully with the Holy Spirit as your guide.
May the Lord reveal His truth to you,
scgraham
I think all you did was look for some past tense reference and use that to say Paul was speaking about the past. When in fact, starting in verse 7, a new question is asked.
Verse 25 - So then, on the one hand I myself with my mind am serving the law of God, but on the other, with my flesh the law of sin.
Again - present tense. You tell me to use the Holy Spirit - but you find need to be able to read accurately what's written. To say that he is describing the past while the text uses present tense terms is not doing your interpretation any favors.
Question - Why do you immediately jump to the viewpoint that people want to justify sin?
::SIGH:: You are sadly in need of an education about the source of human and animal behavior and motivation. Alas the prohibition against learning any of "man's worldly wisdom" has probably shielded you from it . . . and any other intelligent understanding of reality as well.
Just curious, since you seem to reject the spiritual aspect of life, how do you expect to get to heaven to be with God after life on earth?
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???? There seems to be a significant logical disconnect in your rationale.
The natural verses the spiritual...
