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If Faith comes by hearing and hearing by the word of God
then how can you hear without a preacher?
You can hear but you have to receive it,(accept it)
without faith do you feel that we'll be able to stand in
this last and evil days?
how does faith come?
everyone will not believe the report of the Lord
Hebrews 11:6, But without faith it is impossible to please God.
The responsibility rests on us whether or not we have faith
since He told us how to get faith, if we lack faith we are to blame.
You cannot believe and have faith without hearing the word of God.
an example is in Acts 10:1 Cornelius
The Lord will always put someone in position to help you
These shepards that He have appointed to watch over our soul and give us instructions on what to do ( hearing the word of God)
Cornelius was not saved until he heard Peter preach first... God sent man to go preach...
people don't get saved just in the building called church, but out in the streets as well.
But we should be encouraged to have faith and come into the assembly
And not to worry about the tares , don't lose faith because of these, they are doing their jobs for the devil, to keep
you away for this is to be expected in the Great Falling Away isn't it?
Your faith will get weak, don't worry about people, keep your eyes on the Lord he will carry you through
How do you hear without a building pastor? Um...with the Holy Spirit. Gathering with other believers whether there is an actual seminary taught pastor or not is not wrong...when the meeting is led by the Holy Spirit.
So if someone was in prison, and they found a Bible, started reading the Word, they couldn't get saved, because there is no preacher standing in front of them?
Anyone can read the Bible, and if they are not being preached to, they can read and study His word, and be saved.
Sitting under preaching is nice, and hopefully edifying, but no one needs to interpret scripture for us, we should study the Bible ourselves.
You can be born again, without a preacher, without any man.
A person could take Bibles to a group of people, turn around and leave, and they could be saved if they read the Bible and came to the Lord.
Yes, you would pray for them, etc., but being born again is a relationship between us the the Lord, this legalistic doctrine of "you must come to
church to be saved," is actually borne of man's pride, because man wants the credit.
So if someone was in prison, and they found a Bible, started reading the Word, they couldn't get saved, because there is no preacher standing in front of them?
Anyone can read the Bible, and if they are not being preached to, they can read and study His word, and be saved.
Sitting under preaching is nice, and hopefully edifying, but no one needs to interpret scripture for us, we should study the Bible ourselves.
You can be born again, without a preacher, without any man.
A person could take Bibles to a group of people, turn around and leave, and they could be saved if they read the Bible and came to the Lord.
Yes, you would pray for them, etc., but being born again is a relationship between us the the Lord, this legalistic doctrine of "you must come to
church to be saved," is actually borne of man's pride, because man wants the credit.
Sundance the OP agrees with you!Hearing the word is reading your bible. Cornelius was not saved because he never had a bible nor heard God's word but when Peter gave him God's word then he was saved.
God will do whatever it takes to get His word to the people.
Years ago when Christians were not allowed in Korea the missionaries decided to just smuggle as many bibles as they could into Korea, when the missionaries were finally allowed in they were shocked to see how many Christians were there to greet them with tons of questions, later learning they became Christian by reading the bibles that were smuggled in. Now the missionaries can answer those questions and preach to them, helping them grow in holiness. God always finds a way.
Years ago when Christians were not allowed in Korea the missionaries decided to just smuggle as many bibles as they could into Korea, years later when the missionaries were allowed in they were shocked to see how many people became Christians just from reading the bibles they smuggled in and they had tons of questions.
Exactly. With a seeking heart, one can read His word, pray, and be born again.
Exactly. With a seeking heart, one can read His word, pray, and be born again.
It's never, ever, due to man.
The OP was saying, God sent the man. The bible says there are men that God has given gifts to...prophecy, pastor, elder, teacher, interpretation etc....these men were sent by God to guide us and make sure we stay on the right path.
=Sundance;8152176]So if someone was in prison, and they found a Bible, started reading the Word, they couldn't get saved, because there is no preacher standing in front of them? Anyone can read the Bible, and if they are not being preached to, they can read and study His word, and be saved.
Sitting under preaching is nice, and hopefully edifying, but no one needs to interpret scripture for us, we should study the Bible ourselves.
You can not save yourself. You must believe and repent. I agree you can come to salvation "for no one has an excuse" but to meerly read the Bilbe and proclaim salvation is not true. Many self proclaimed atheists are Bible readers.
I don't think your impling "just" reading, but when we make statements about salvation "who's saved and who isn't" it must not come from our own understanding, and be in confirmed by scripture. Stating who's saved is also judgement.
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You can be born again, without a preacher, without any man.
Yes ... I agree about the preacher... but we must have a man and His name is Jesus. Preachers (not all) are called to teach. Pastors are called to lead.
You can also be self educated, but is it better to go to school and learn from others who came before us?
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A person could take Bibles to a group of people, turn around and leave, and they could be saved if they read the Bible and came to the Lord.
I'd say (subjectively) this is highly unlikely. If all we needed was the Bible then why did the "Word" manifest as flesh? and preach/teach/show/live with us? Why did God know a living breathing person was necessary for our salvation?
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Yes, you would pray for them, etc., but being born again is a relationship between us the the Lord, this legalistic doctrine of "you must come to
church to be saved," is actually borne of man's pride, because man wants the credit.
Yes... it is about relationships. It is also about relationships with other believers, including the preacher. Look how the 10 commandments are constructed... first 4 about our relationship with God, the next 6 about our relationship with others.
I have never heard a church say... "you must come to church to be saved," but I suppose there are some.
So if someone was in prison, and they found a Bible, started reading the Word, they couldn't get saved, because there is no preacher standing in front of them?
Anyone can read the Bible, and if they are not being preached to, they can read and study His word, and be saved.
Sitting under preaching is nice, and hopefully edifying, but no one needs to interpret scripture for us, we should study the Bible ourselves.
You can be born again, without a preacher, without any man.
A person could take Bibles to a group of people, turn around and leave, and they could be saved if they read the Bible and came to the Lord.
Yes, you would pray for them, etc., but being born again is a relationship between us the the Lord, this legalistic doctrine of "you must come to
church to be saved," is actually borne of man's pride, because man wants the credit.
I am afraid I have to take exception with your sentence that I highlighted. It requires help to be buried into Christ in baptism. I find no incidence of anyone being saved otherwise. A careful study of the book of Acts will back this up.
The OP was saying, God sent the man. The bible says there are men that God has given gifts to...prophecy, pastor, elder, teacher, interpretation etc....these men were sent by God to guide us and make sure we stay on the right path.
So are you saying, that one cannot be saved, unless they are preached to? You've already given an example, yourself, of people who were simply given Bibles, and came to the Lord.
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these men were sent by God to guide us and make sure we stay on the right path.
And what of men like Robert Tilton, or others of his ilk?
What should our response be, when these men who went sent to guide us, go into their own sin?
How can they guide us, if they cannot even steer their own ship?
So are you saying, that one cannot be saved, unless they are preached to? You've already given an example, yourself, of people who were simply given Bibles, and came to the Lord.
I said they were Christians, I never said they were saved. There is a difference. I guarantee you some those same people hungry for answers didn't stay and went back to their ways.
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And what of men like Robert Tilton, or others of his ilk?
What should our response be, when these men who went sent to guide us, go into their own sin?
How can they guide us, if they cannot even steer their own ship?
What should our response be?
Like Dave said, There are many men who are Pastors who were not called to be Pastors. That's why we need the bible for correction, if these men are of God then they will preach from scripture correctly. Any responsible Pastor should tell his congregation, "Don't take my word for it you should look it up yourselves" Be like the Bereans, question everything.
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