U.S. CitiesCity-Data Forum Index
Go Back   City-Data Forum > General Forums > Religion and Spirituality > Christianity
 [Register]
Please register to participate in our discussions with 2 million other members - it's free and quick! Some forums can only be seen by registered members. After you create your account, you'll be able to customize options and access all our 15,000 new posts/day with fewer ads.
View detailed profile (Advanced) or search
site with Google Custom Search

Search Forums  (Advanced)
Reply Start New Thread
 
Old 07-07-2009, 01:38 PM
 
Location: Baltimore, Maryland
27 posts, read 35,975 times
Reputation: 20

Advertisements

Quote:
1 Corinthians 6

1Dare any of you, having a matter against another, go to law before the unjust, and not before the saints?


2Do ye not know that the saints shall judge the world? and if the world shall be judged by you, are ye unworthy to judge the smallest matters?

3Know ye not that we shall judge angels? how much more things that pertain to this life?

4If then ye have judgments of things pertaining to this life, set them to judge who are least esteemed in the church.

5I speak to your shame. Is it so, that there is not a wise man among you? no, not one that shall be able to judge between his brethren?

6But brother goeth to law with brother, and that before the unbelievers.

7Now therefore there is utterly a fault among you, because ye go to law one with another. Why do ye not rather take wrong? why do ye not rather suffer yourselves to be defrauded?

8Nay, ye do wrong, and defraud, and that your brethren.
.
Rate this post positively Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message

 
Old 07-07-2009, 01:47 PM
 
8,989 posts, read 13,448,853 times
Reputation: 748
Long story short, if you are having problems with a brother in Christ, say a business deal went sour and you felt you were wronged like most you go to the secular courts system to file a lawsuit but Paul is saying, we must settle our matters in the church among us saints "Christians" How will it look to the world if Christians can't handle their own problems or that we have to come to them for instruction? What kind of testimony is that? How can we one day judge the world and angels if we can't even settle trivial matters between us?

Last edited by Fundamentalist; 07-07-2009 at 02:12 PM..
Rate this post positively Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
 
Old 07-07-2009, 01:52 PM
 
Location: Baltimore, Maryland
27 posts, read 35,975 times
Reputation: 20
Quote:
Originally Posted by Fundamentalist View Post
Long story short, if you are having problems with a brother in Christ, say a business deal went sour and you felt you were wronged like most you go to the secular courts system to file a lawsuit but Paul is saying, we must settle our matters in the church among us saints "Christians" How will it look to the world if Christians are bickering with each other? We should be able to settle trivial disputes between ourselves if one day Christians are to judge the world and judge angels.
So you don't think this scripture is saying not to put your brother up before the courts period, regardless of what the matter is?

Like say if someone in the church rapes you. Wouldn't seeking to have that person prosecuted be trying to get revenge on him?
Rate this post positively Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
 
Old 07-07-2009, 02:04 PM
 
8,989 posts, read 13,448,853 times
Reputation: 748
Quote:
Originally Posted by {Ukiaon} View Post
So you don't think this scripture is saying not to put your brother up before the courts period, regardless of what the matter is?

Like say if someone in the church rapes you. Wouldn't seeking to have that person prosecuted be trying to get revenge on him?
Rape, murder is a very serious matter which requires incarceration (the church is not equipped for that) and that definitely begs the attention of law enforcement. I am talking about small issues like small lawsuits, quarrels etc.... This is what Paul calls church discipline, a system many churches do not practice anymore. A brother who was wronged should go to the brother and call for his repentance, if he doesn't then he brings another brother with him to talk to the brother doing wrong; if he still doesn't listen then he goes to the pastor; if he still doesn't listen then it is put in front of the church and he is suspended out of love for the brother doing wrong until he repents and fixes the damage he caused but like I said most churches do not practice this anymore which is why Christians are forced to seek secular help and putting the church's business in the streets.

This passage does not teach that Christians should never go to court, since it is sometimes impossible to avoid.

Last edited by Fundamentalist; 07-07-2009 at 02:15 PM..
Rate this post positively Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
 
Old 07-07-2009, 02:08 PM
 
Location: Tulsa
2,529 posts, read 4,087,997 times
Reputation: 550
I agree with Fundy.
Rate this post positively Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
 
Old 07-07-2009, 02:17 PM
 
Location: Baltimore, Maryland
27 posts, read 35,975 times
Reputation: 20
Quote:
Originally Posted by Fundamentalist View Post
Rape, murder is a very serious matter which requires incarceration (the church is not equipped for that) and that should definitely needs the attention of law enforcement. I am talking about small issues like small lawsuits-quarrels. This is what Paul calls church discipline, a system many churches do not practice anymore. A brother who was wrong should go to a brother and call for his repentance, if he doesn't then he brings another brother with him to talk to the brother doing wrong; if he still doesn't listen then we go to the pastor; if he still doesn't listen then it is put in front of the church and he is suspended out of love for the brother until he repents and fixes the damage but like I said most churches do not practice this anymore which is why people are forced to seek secular instruction and putting the church's business in the streets.
Well I feel according to that scripture that when a person reports rape to put a person before the courts to be tried and sentenced to jail is seeking revenge.

I feel this way because the bible says to over come evil with good. It's evil to rape or to murder. Putting anyone before the courts to be tried and sentenced to jail is seeking revenge when God says avenge not ourselves, vegeance is his.

Jesus gave us a command to love our neighbor and the bible says love covers sins and trangressions:
Quote:
Proverbs 10:12
Hatred stirreth up strifes: but love covereth all sins.
Quote:
Proverbs 17:9
He that covereth a transgression seeketh love; but he that repeateth a matter separateth very friends.
I as a female have never been raped before, but a close family member who is an elder to me has. She didn't report it back when it happened and this woman is the most forgiving person you'll ever meet (after Jesus ofcourse). I look to Jesus first for the example of how to forgive because he forgave the very people who were stoning him while they were doing it, but then I look to her because no matter what people do to her, she finds it in her heart to forgive.

I've even said and done some mean things to this lady and when she does good to me afterwards and forgives me, I feel like a piece of doo doo!!!
Rate this post positively Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
 
Old 07-07-2009, 02:25 PM
 
8,989 posts, read 13,448,853 times
Reputation: 748
Quote:
Originally Posted by {Ukiaon} View Post
Well I feel according to that scripture that when a person reports rape to put a person before the courts to be tried and sentenced to jail is not good and thats seeking revenge.
I don't agree. I believe if someone is seeking revenge then either that person is trying to inflict bodily harm or terminate that person. I see it as seeking justice. In Genesis Abel's blood cried out from the dirt seeking justice; the tribulation martyred saints in revelations will cry out to God, how long must we wait for justice? We were made in God's image and just like God is a just God so we are just creatures.

You are right that we should forgive but turning someone over to the authorities is not always seeking vengeance or being spiteful, now maybe it can be because I don't know that person's heart, so it depends on the individual's heart and Holy Spirit inside them convicting them of their thoughts but in no way is it indicative that any woman seeking justice for a serious crime committed against her is being vengeful; that is from the outside looking in. Furthermore it is a serious offense to not report a serious crime and as Christians we are to obey the law.

Last edited by Fundamentalist; 07-07-2009 at 02:36 PM..
Rate this post positively Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
 
Old 07-07-2009, 02:41 PM
 
Location: New Zealand
8,286 posts, read 1,663,055 times
Reputation: 798
Quote:
Originally Posted by Fundamentalist View Post
I don't agree. I believe if someone is seeking revenge then either that person is trying to inflict bodily harm or terminate that person. I see it as seeking justice. In Genesis Abel's blood cried out from the dirt seeking justice; the martyred saints in revelations crying out to God, how long must we wait for justice? We were made in God's image and just like God is a just God so we are just creatures.

You are right that we should forgive but turning someone over to the authorities is not seeking vengeance or being spiteful, now again maybe because I don't know that person's heart, so it is up to the individual's heart furthermore it is a serious offense to not report a serious crime and as Christians we are to obey the law.
Fundy,

I agree with you - there is a difference between revenge and justice - revenge is an eye for an eye - if someone steals something from me if I then steal from them it is revenge, justice is about knowing and paying the consequences for an action. If I steal from you, you are not helping me by ignoring it, I would need to pay back the money - forgiveness is about acknowledging the wrong, and not harboring a grudge after the matter has been settled (payment, apology, restitution, contrition)
Rate this post positively Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
 
Old 07-07-2009, 02:42 PM
 
Location: Tulsa
2,529 posts, read 4,087,997 times
Reputation: 550
Plus, Ukaion, would you want that person to keep doing it to others?
Rate this post positively Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
 
Old 07-07-2009, 02:42 PM
 
Location: Tucson, Arizona
987 posts, read 997,661 times
Reputation: 296
I was date raped as a young woman. I didn't report it for I felt shame and that somehow I was responsible for his actions.

But what did that teach the rapist? Did it teach him forgiveness? not likely. It taught him he could get away with such reprehensible action, at least in this life and he more than likely did it again. That bothers me. It is not always about justice or revenge to have a person's crimes brought to public light. At least this man would have learned that actions have consequences and that his behavior was not right and maybe learn to feel remorse. And it might have prevented another woman from becoming his victim, which in all likelihood happened.

There are always two sides to look at. Forgive him. I would not want him to suffer any terrible punishment at the hands of God for it, but I hope he learned at some point in his life that what he did hurt not only his victim but himself as well.
Rate this post positively Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
Please register to post and access all features of our very popular forum. It is free and quick. Over $68,000 in prizes has already been given out to active posters on our forum. Additional giveaways are planned.

Detailed information about all U.S. cities, counties, and zip codes on our site: City-data.com.


Reply
Please update this thread with any new information or opinions. This open thread is still read by thousands of people, so we encourage all additional points of view.

Quick Reply
Message:

Over $104,000 in prizes was already given out to active posters on our forum and additional giveaways are planned!

Go Back   City-Data Forum > General Forums > Religion and Spirituality > Christianity
Similar Threads

All times are GMT -6.

© 2005-2021, Advameg, Inc. · Please obey Forum Rules · Terms of Use and Privacy Policy · Bug Bounty

City-Data.com - Contact Us - Archive 1, 2, 3, 4, 5, 6, 7, 8, 9, 10, 11, 12, 13, 14, 15, 16, 17, 18, 19, 20, 21, 22, 23, 24, 25, 26, 27, 28, 29, 30, 31, 32, 33, 34, 35, 36, 37 - Top