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Old 07-21-2009, 11:04 PM
 
Location: The A
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1 tim 2:

6Who gave himself a ransom for all, to be testified in due time.

Who are the all paul is talking about ? Well scripture is its own best interpreter..lets look at what Jesus said about the ransom !

matt 20:

Even as the Son of man came not to be ministered unto, but to minister, and to give his life a ransom for many.

mk 10:

For even the Son of man came not to be ministered unto, but to minister, and to give his life a ransom for many.

Now, from these two other scriptures, its plain to see that the all are the many, that is, he gave his life a ransom for all of the many..

The word for many in matt 20 28 is :

polys and its the same word used in

rev 7 :

9After this I beheld, and, lo, a great multitude, which no man could number, of all nations, and kindreds, and people, and tongues, stood before the throne, and before the Lamb, clothed with white robes, and palms in their hands;

So the many is that great multitude that had been washed in the blood of the lamb vs


14And I said unto him, Sir, thou knowest. And he said to me, These are they which came out of great tribulation, and have washed their robes, and made them white in the blood of the Lamb.

which are the ones Jesus loved

rev 1:

5And from Jesus Christ, who is the faithful witness, and the first begotten of the dead, and the prince of the kings of the earth. Unto him that loved us, and washed us from our sins in his own blood,

The word ransom is :

for 1 tim 2 6 is:

antilytron which means :

what is given in exchange for another as the price of his redemption, ransom

The word here for ransom is significant , its not a mere simple ransom, but correlative in nature.

it signifies a price by which captives are actually set free or redeemed from their enemies, and the kind of exchange, in which one person is redeemed by another, a life is redeemed by a life.. hence, Christ giving His life for the ransomed, communicates to them his resurrected life..

Thats why he died, in order to communicate his life to them he died for..jn 12:

24Verily, verily, I say unto you, Except a corn of wheat fall into the ground and die, it abideth alone: but if it die, it bringeth forth much fruit.

This is what the ransom did for Gods people..it bought them their freedom and communicates new life unto them..this is quite different from the teachings of the antichrist ministers, who teach that the ransom only makes eternal life possible, or makes one savable..but here is more scripture testimony for the ransomed..:

jer 31:

For the LORD hath redeemed Jacob, and ransomed him from the hand of him that was stronger than he.

Look at the testimony of johns father, the baptist lk 1:


71That we should be saved from our enemies, and from the hand of all that hate us;

72To perform the mercy promised to our fathers, and to remember his holy covenant;

73The oath which he sware to our father Abraham,

74That he would grant unto us, that we being delivered out of the hand of our enemies might serve him without fear,

75In holiness and righteousness before him, all the days of our life.

vs 71 and 74 clarifiy being ransomed and the end results, that we [the elect] might serve him [God] without fear, in holiness and righteousness before him all the days of our lives..

This is the true meaning of ransom, and its for a definite people, the many, the israel of God..

For the Lord hath redeemed or ransomed jacob..

hos 13:

14I will ransom them from the power of the grave; I will redeem them from death: O death, I will be thy plagues; O grave, I will be thy destruction: repentance shall be hid from mine eyes.

You see, if God ransomed you, then the power of death must let you go, life for a life..

job 33:

Then he is gracious unto him, and saith, Deliver him from going down to the pit: I have found a ransom.

True ransom from God, brings the communication of life, the deliverance from spiritual death..

This however isnt true of all the sons of man, but to the elect of God, the seed of abraham, not ethnic jews, but spiritual jews, the children of promise..
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Old 07-21-2009, 11:06 PM
 
Location: NC
14,705 posts, read 17,039,261 times
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Quote:
1 tim 2:

6Who gave himself a ransom for all, to be testified in due time.

Who are the all paul is talking about ?
Hi, he is talking about all mankind.


Colossians 1:15-20
15. He is the image of the invisible God, the firstborn of all creation.16. For by Him all things were created, both in the heavens and on earth, visible and invisible, whether thrones or dominions or rulers or authorities--all things have been created through Him and for Him.17. He is before all things, and in Him all things hold together.18. He is also head of the body, the church; and He is the beginning, the firstborn from the dead, so that He Himself will come to have first place in everything.19. For it was the Father's good pleasure for all the fullness to dwell in Him,20. and through Him to reconcile all things to Himself, having made peace through the blood of His cross; through Him, I say, whether things on earth or things in heaven.



God bless.
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Old 07-21-2009, 11:11 PM
 
Location: The A
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Quote:
Hi, he is talking about all mankind.
Hi, No He is not, for He is not talking about the devil and His children and angels Matt 25:

41Then shall he say also unto them on the left hand, Depart from me, ye cursed, into everlasting fire, prepared for the devil and his angels:
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Old 07-21-2009, 11:19 PM
 
Location: New Zealand
11,714 posts, read 3,594,065 times
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Originally Posted by beloved57 View Post
Hi, No He is not, for He is not talking about the devil and His children and angels Matt 25:

41Then shall he say also unto them on the left hand, Depart from me, ye cursed, into everlasting fire, prepared for the devil and his angels:
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Old 07-21-2009, 11:20 PM
 
Location: NC
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God bless.
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Old 07-22-2009, 07:11 AM
 
6,657 posts, read 8,096,783 times
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Originally Posted by beloved57 View Post
The word for many in matt 20 28 is :

polys and its the same word used in

rev 7 :

9After this I beheld, and, lo, a great multitude, which no man could number, of all nations, and kindreds, and people, and tongues, stood before the throne, and before the Lamb, clothed with white robes, and palms in their hands;

So the many is that great multitude that had been washed in the blood of the lamb
This great multitude, which no man could number... is this the same great multitude which you said would only be about 107000 (about 0.00006% of all mankind) people? You are contradicting yourself.

See this thread.
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Old 07-22-2009, 07:31 AM
 
17,966 posts, read 15,904,540 times
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Originally Posted by beloved57 View Post
1 tim 2:

6Who gave himself a ransom for all, to be testified in due time.

Who are the all paul is talking about ? Well scripture is its own best interpreter..lets look at what Jesus said about the ransom !

matt 20:

Even as the Son of man came not to be ministered unto, but to minister, and to give his life a ransom for many.

mk 10:

For even the Son of man came not to be ministered unto, but to minister, and to give his life a ransom for many.

Now, from these two other scriptures, its plain to see that the all are the many, that is, he gave his life a ransom for all of the many..
Let's see, does it really make sense to you that "God will have all mankind to be saved" because "Christ ransomed just the elect"?

Does it even make sense that God wants or desires to save all mankind because Christ ransomed only the elect?
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Old 07-22-2009, 08:01 AM
 
Location: The A
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Let's see, does it really make sense to you that "God will have all mankind to be saved" because "Christ ransomed just the elect"?
Yeah..for God doesnt desire the salvation of the devil and his seed, for He prepared for them a place..right here:

Matt 25:

41Then shall he say also unto them on the left hand, Depart from me, ye cursed, into everlasting fire, prepared for the devil and his angels:
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Old 07-22-2009, 08:15 AM
 
Location: The A
1,876 posts, read 2,381,908 times
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Originally Posted by legoman View Post
This great multitude, which no man could number... is this the same great multitude which you said would only be about 107000 (about 0.00006% of all mankind) people? You are contradicting yourself.

See this thread.
A great multitude which no man can number, merely means that no one knows the exact number of the elect save God..

Now as far as a great multitude is concerned, lets look at that phrase throug scripture:

numbers 32:

Now the children of Reuben and the children of Gad had a very great multitude of cattle: and when they saw the land of Jazer, and the land of Gilead, that, behold, the place was a place for cattle;

Now, its said that these Two Tribes had a very great multitude of cattle..but what would that very great multitude be like in comparison to all the other cattle in the world ? Very Small..

1 kings 20 13

And, behold, there came a prophet unto Ahab king of Israel, saying, Thus saith the LORD, Hast thou seen all this great multitude? behold, I will deliver it into thine hand this day; and thou shalt know that I am the LORD.

matt 14 14

And Jesus went forth, and saw a great multitude, and was moved with compassion toward them, and he healed their sick

Now what about all the people in the world whom Jesus did not see at this moment ? What type of multitude would that be incomparison to the one referred to here ?

Matt 21:8

And a very great multitude spread their garments in the way; others cut down branches from the trees, and strawed them in the way.

Do you think this very great multitude was all of mankind here ?


lets say you go to a football stadium, and its jam packed with fans and so forth, it can be said, thats a very great multitude of people..

But what kind of multitude it would be in comparison to all the other stadiums that are packed with Fans ? it would be but few..

Only few will be saved..matt 7:

Because strait is the gate, and narrow is the way, which leadeth unto life, and few there be that find it.
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Old 07-22-2009, 08:21 AM
 
17,966 posts, read 15,904,540 times
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Originally Posted by beloved57 View Post
Yeah..for God doesnt desire the salvation of the devil and his seed, for He prepared for them a place..right here:

Matt 25:

41Then shall he say also unto them on the left hand, Depart from me, ye cursed, into everlasting fire, prepared for the devil and his angels:
It is literally "age-during fire" or "eonian fire" which is the fire pertaining to that eon.

Christ did not die to save angels. They however will be reconciled to God (Col.1:20). They don't need saved from a dying condition like humans.

You still are not making any sense.

"God will have ALL HUMANS to be saved . . . for . . . Christ gave Himself a ransom for ALL [HUMANS]" (1 Tim.2:4-6).

It does not make any sense to say "God will have ALL HUMANS to be saved . . . for . . . Christ gave Himself a ransom for ALL [the elect].
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