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To answer the OP...yes, it is a Godly thought to desire all men be saved. It is what God, our Heavenly Father, desires, is it not?
We are also instructed by Jesus to pray for God's will to be done on earth. The Bible clearly states that God desires (wills) that all come into the Knowledge of the Truth.
Amen.
No God doesnt desire all men without exception to be saved, for if He did, He would not have created some for Hell.., vessels of wrath..being fitted for destruction..
No God doesnt desire all men without exception to be saved, for if He did, He would not have created some for Hell.., vessels of wrath..being fitted for destruction..
1 Timothy 2:3 "This is good and pleases God our Savior, for He wants EVERYONE to be saved and understand the truth"
What part of this do you not understand?????
Everyone will not be saved, but not because God does not desire all men to be saved, He does, it is because some men reject him, big difference.
1 Timothy 2:3 "This is good and pleases God our Savior, for He wants EVERYONE to be saved and understand the truth"
What part of this do you not understand?????
Everyone will not be saved, but not because God does not desire all men to be saved, He does, it is because some men reject him, big difference.
Pretty straight forward here
This is what God says he desires that he will do.
1Ti 2:3 for this is ideal and welcome in the sight of our Saviour, God,
1Ti 2:4 Who wills that all mankind be saved and come into a realization of the truth.
This says he will do it.
Isa 46:10 Telling from the beginning, the hereafter, and from aforetime, what has not yet been done. Saying, `All My counsel shall be confirmed, and all My desire will I do.'
you ask a weirds questions for someone apparently claiming christian title.
God wants none to perish...so godly thought.
and the church is teaching what jesus taught....only a few saved....look it up....he was asked about it.
read your bible and believe it.
you seem content on believing what feels good to you.
i cannot blame you, but God can.
Very well said! I agree completly.
The fact is that there are several universalist who camp at this forum. Don't spend your time trying to help them understand the Bible. They will totally reject your teaching. They are happy thinking that there is no such thing as eternal torment for lost humans.
They will set you up with a seemingly innocent question, then when you join the discussion, will try to bring you down to thier level.
Since this thread is really about universalism, and not what it was first thought to be, I'd like to say....
I've read that Jerome had a great deal of respect for Origen, until he learned that Origen had universalist leanings. If it is true that Origen turned universalist, it only shows that even some of the finest Biblical scholars can be decieved by satan.
I've read that Jerome had a great deal of respect for Origen, until he learned that Origen had universalist leanings
Hi, evidently Jerome believed in the eventual restoration of all to God.
notes
“Christ will, in the ages to come, show not to one, but to the whole number of rational creatures His glory, and the riches of His grace, by means of us [Christians]. The saints are to reign over the fallen angels, and the prince of this world, even to them will be brought blessing.”
• In Eph. ii.7
“With God no rational creature perishes eternally. ... For God pities His creatures, and will not suffer those whom He himself has formed to perish eternally, who are sustained by His breath and spirit.”
• In Isa. lvii.6
“In the restitution of all things, when the true physician, Jesus Christ, shall have come to heal the body of the Church, every one shall receive his proper place. What I mean is, the fallen angel will begin to be that [of his original state] which he was created, and man (who was expelled from Paradise) will be once more restored to the tilling of Paradise. These things then will take place universally.”
• In Eph. iv. 16
Many who taught eternal hell publicly believed in the eventual restoration of all to God so we really don't know how widespread it was believed in the early church. Many believed that it should not be shared with or taught to the masses. God bless.
Last edited by ShanaBrown; 07-28-2009 at 07:18 AM..
The Encyclopedia of Religious Knowledge (1908) by Schaff-Herzog says in volume 12, on page 96, "In the first five or six centuries of Christianity there were six theological schools, of which four (Alexandria, Antioch, Caesarea, and Edessa, or Nisibis) were Universalist, one (Ephesus) accepted conditional immortality; one (Carthage or Rome) taught endless punishment of the wicked. Other theological schools are mentioned as founded by Universalists, but their actual doctrine on this subject is not known."
The number of schools in the early church that taught ultimate reconciliation is an embarrassment to many modern church historians. Therefore, they often do whatever they can to hide these facts. I mention again that these Christian Universalists who were clearly the majority of the early Church, believed that all mankind through Christ would be restored. They believed and taught and many laid down their lives for the belief that Jesus Christ was truly the Savior of the whole world. Remember, these historians just quoted were not "Universalists." Also note that the school that taught "Eternal Torment" was in Rome, where the original Bible languages were abandoned and replaced with Latin. Those of you who are familiar with Daniel's image made up of four kingdoms are also probably aware that the legs of iron might speak of the Roman Empire.
That is a good article Shana. The "Doctrine of Reserve" was something else. From the article:
Another problem that one has to overcome when trying to find out what the early Christians believed stems from what came to be called the "Doctrine of Reserve." It was often easier to use fear than love and patience to restrain the heathen, so very often fear was preached to the masses and the "Doctrine of the Restitution of All Things" was "reserved" for the more mature in Christ.
Essentially, the people were lied to "for their own good". Teaching eternal torment brought more converts than teaching the truth I guess. It didn't help that the Roman Empire was using Christianity as a political tool.
Most of us do not realize that when Constantine made Christianity the religion of the Roman Empire hundreds of thousands, or even perhaps millions, entered the church without a true conversion. Now the church was full of people who were heathen at heart but soon became leaders in the church due to the normal political processes of the Roman governmental system. The Church now had leaders and laity who were not truly converted, but rose to power through nepotism, deceit, popularity, and all the other ways the world raises its leaders.
Since many now in the Church were really not converted, they had to be restrained by fear. It is at this point in church history that the writings and teachings began to take a turn away from the teachings of the previous 300 years. The church leaders felt that the "Doctrine of Reserve" was an effective way of keeping order among new members, many of which were still heathen in their hearts. In hindsight, it was the door to a flood of pagan doctrines that entered into the church which led her right into the Dark Ages.
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