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I dont think God has revealed such knowledge one way or the other..but we do know that babies are born sinners and die like all sinners do..
rom 5:
14Nevertheless death reigned from Adam to Moses, even over them that had not sinned after the similitude of Adam's transgression,[personal sin] who is the figure of him that was to come.
if babies were not sinners, they would be exempt from death..
Now, I believe IF a baby is non elect, and God does condemn them to hell, they will not be a baby, but miraculosly changed unto adulthood for their punishment as a sinner, and of course thei punishment will not be as severe as a non elect who spent 70 - 80 years accumalating guilt against God..
Same for a babie who died an elect, when they enter into eternal glory, it will be with a changed adulthood..
I dont think God has revealed such knowledge one way or the other..but we do know that babies are born sinners and die like all sinners do..
rom 5:
14Nevertheless death reigned from Adam to Moses, even over them that had not sinned after the similitude of Adam's transgression,[personal sin] who is the figure of him that was to come.
if babies were not sinners, they would be exempt from death..
Now, I believe IF a baby is non elect, and God does condemn them to hell, they will not be a baby, but miraculosly changed unto adulthood for their punishment as a sinner, and of course thei punishment will not be as severe as a non elect who spent 70 - 80 years accumalating guilt against God..
Same for a babie who died an elect, when they enter into eternal glory, it will be with a changed adulthood..
Let's face the TRUTH here. Anyone that believe that God will not save everyone MUST believe that God does not desire to save everyone OR that God is unwilling to save everyone. The scriptures plainly refute both views:............... (snip for brevity).....................
These scriptures refute any contrary assertion. Paul
Then you must believe that the Bible refutes itself? I would suggest you reread these scriptures for yourself, and take heed. I have read the NT more than 300 times, and I have never seen your doctrine within its pages. I have read the OT at least 50 times, and I've seen your doctrine even less within those pages. As to the scriptures you've referenced, I'd be glad to challenge your assertions about them. Anyway...
2 Peter 3 The Day of the Lord
3First of all, you must understand that in the last days scoffers will come, scoffing and following their own evil desires. 4They will say, "Where is this 'coming' he promised? Ever since our fathers died, everything goes on as it has since the beginning of creation." 5But they deliberately forget that long ago by God's word the heavens existed and the earth was formed out of water and by water. 6By these waters also the world of that time was deluged and destroyed. 7By the same word the present heavens and earth are reserved for fire, being kept for the day of judgment and destruction of ungodly men.
Revelation 20 The Dead Are Judged
11Then I saw a great white throne and him who was seated on it. Earth and sky fled from his presence, and there was no place for them. 12And I saw the dead, great and small, standing before the throne, and books were opened. Another book was opened, which is the book of life. The dead were judged according to what they had done as recorded in the books. 13The sea gave up the dead that were in it, and death and Hades gave up the dead that were in them, and each person was judged according to what he had done. 14Then death and Hades were thrown into the lake of fire. The lake of fire is the second death. 15If anyone's name was not found written in the book of life, he was thrown into the lake of fire.
Why would that be hard to understand. It simply is the ridiculousness of religion.
Religion talks about this wonderous God, but then teaches on the horror of hell, and christians talk so much about avoiding it, point fingers at those who they think are heading there. They lead people to think about doing whatever it takes to avoid it.
YET, under such an umbrella of theology and those who believe there is an age of accountability they cannot see how wonderful it should be that a baby dies and is automatically in heaven.
They did not have to put their religious family and friends through any turmoil wondering if they are in heaven or hell.
They should thank abortionists since every aborted baby is gauranteed heaven, no choice, no sorrow, they are just there.
They talk about stopping the evil, when the evil would be letting them live and placing them at a point where they have to listen to a bunch of people telling them to choose heaven or hell.
Then you must believe that the Bible refutes itself? I would suggest you reread these scriptures for yourself, and take heed. I have read the NT more than 300 times, and I have never seen your doctrine within its pages. I have read the OT at least 50 times, and I've seen your doctrine even less within those pages. As to the scriptures you've referenced, I'd be glad to challenge your assertions about them. Anyway...
2 Peter 3 The Day of the Lord
3First of all, you must understand that in the last days scoffers will come, scoffing and following their own evil desires. 4They will say, "Where is this 'coming' he promised? Ever since our fathers died, everything goes on as it has since the beginning of creation." 5But they deliberately forget that long ago by God's word the heavens existed and the earth was formed out of water and by water. 6By these waters also the world of that time was deluged and destroyed. 7By the same word the present heavens and earth are reserved for fire, being kept for the day of judgment and destruction of ungodly men.
Revelation 20 The Dead Are Judged
11Then I saw a great white throne and him who was seated on it. Earth and sky fled from his presence, and there was no place for them. 12And I saw the dead, great and small, standing before the throne, and books were opened. Another book was opened, which is the book of life. The dead were judged according to what they had done as recorded in the books. 13The sea gave up the dead that were in it, and death and Hades gave up the dead that were in them, and each person was judged according to what he had done. 14Then death and Hades were thrown into the lake of fire. The lake of fire is the second death. 15If anyone's name was not found written in the book of life, he was thrown into the lake of fire.
Which one are you Led Zeppelin? - are you the one that believes that God is unable to save everyone or are you the on that believes that God doesn't desire to save everyone?
Why would that be hard to understand. It simply is the ridiculousness of religion.
Religion talks about this wonderous God, but then teaches on the horror of hell, and christians talk so much about avoiding it, point fingers at those who they think are heading there. They lead people to think about doing whatever it takes to avoid it.
YET, under such an umbrella of theology and those who believe there is an age of accountability they cannot see how wonderful it should be that a baby dies and is automatically in heaven.
They did not have to put their religious family and friends through any turmoil wondering if they are in heaven or hell.
They should thank abortionists since every aborted baby is gauranteed heaven, no choice, no sorrow, they are just there.
They talk about stopping the evil, when the evil would be letting them live and placing them at a point where they have to listen to a bunch of people telling them to choose heaven or hell.
When taken to it's logical conclusion, what you've posted is true, this is the main reason I've never had children myself, when I went to church whatever I may, or may not have gotten spiritually, I did at least grasp this concept, that I could bring a child into the world that could be hellbound I've spent most of my life wishing I'd never been born, or at least to have died before the age of accountability
Can't people see that this is all that matters, that if only person is headed for an eternal life in torment, that this is far more serious and important than ones own personal comforts, wants or needs, this has become so burdensome to me personally, words can't express how I feel, I can't believe the cold indifference (which I myself was guilty of as well, not too long ago) towards this issue, we really need to seek God with an open heart and mind, and not tear one another to shreds on this board, this isn't fun and games time
All I can do is pray that God will give me some peace of mind about this, I cannot live with the fact, if true, that God would have predestined the vast majority of humanity to be tortured forever
All I can do is pray that God will give me some peace of mind about this, I cannot live with the fact, if true, that God would have predestined the vast majority of humanity to be tortured forever
I pray as well for your peace, that is not God, it is man's way.
Which one are you Led Zeppelin? - are you the one that believes that God is unable to save everyone or are you the on that believes that God doesn't desire to save everyone?
Paul
I'm neither! I believe in the God of Revelation 20 and 2 Peter 3! After 300+ readings of the NT, I haven't found anything there that makes me want to reinvent it. At any rate, do you think there might be more than the two options that you offer available?
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