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IMO Universalism is but atheist lite. I once held to the UR beliefs but this requires more dodging than the ET folk around here when it comes to the OT atrocities.
Although the UR doctrine is more palatable, it still requires belief by faith in the unseen and to be honest, you UR folk cannot even agree if hell is temporary or does not exist at all hence it still remains a man-made doctrine just like the rest of xianity is man-made.
The big question you are all confronted with is:
If god is love, how then can s/he have a hell for the "unsaved"?
Many of you have seen that hell means grave, realm of the dead et al. Salvation according to the bible is that none should perish but all should come to repentance blah blah... yet I restate my question:
Saved from what?
If that means saved from myself as answered earlier, that means your god is a doofus as he screwed up in his creation and somehow one must still adhere to the mythology of Adam and Eve and the fall.
You folk still believe in or are obsessed with sin in that one either pays for it now somehow - sowing and reaping (btw a universal principle) or have to pay for it by some sort of temporary purging in a fire etc. Then you say that is we have to pay for one sin ourselves, Jesus died in vain hence you still have to believe in an archaic animal/human sacrifice bringing you inexorably to the same conundrum that he sacrificed himself to himself to appease himself.
The deconversion process was more complex but I guess being told by the fundies that you are not a true christian(tm) I guess well I finally agreed with them, reevaluated my whole xian life and realized it was "true" because I wanted it to be including the so called epiphany aka BA experience, tongues etc. which BTW I can still invoke meaning it is something learned and not a gift of the hs.
After continuing to add water to the koolaid mix until I was finally drinking pure water again, I no longer hear voices in my head and realize that the voices I heard and the so called conversations were orchestrated by the personal trinity of me, myself and I.
Hence CU/UR is but another sect of xianity with merely a different set of dogmas and doctrines compared to the ET camp.
When you realize that when your prayers "bounce off the ceiling", it is not because you are praying wrong, the only thing on the other side of the ceiling is the floor above or the ceiling insulation and roof tiles of your house.
I did not become immoral and nothing has changed except there is no more guilt trips.
So thank you to all the true christians(tm) here that aided in my final deconversion to atheist. What I read here and what I experienced in RL is no different.
Hence CU/UR is but another sect of xianity with merely a different set of dogmas and doctrines compared to the ET camp.
?? In your opinion it atheist lite or another sect of chistianity??? You have stated it is both in your post.
Belief in God is about faith - yes ........ for both the ET and CU - both believe in Christ as saviour. If you believe in Gods sovereignty and election the ET believer has to believe that God created humans to end up in hell and electing for those to go there because they were not chosen.
?? In your opinion it atheist lite or another sect of chistianity??? You have stated it is both in your post.
Correct
Quote:
Belief in God is about faith - yes ........ for both the ET and CU - both believe in Christ as saviour. If you believe in Gods sovereignty and election the ET believer has to believe that God created humans to end up in hell and electing for those to go there because they were not chosen.
Saviour of what exactly if hell is not real?
According to UR, all eventually make it to heaven so what are you saved from? Is it a temporary hell or LoF?
I mean you have to still believe in either of these myths to classify Jesus as saviour and of course like I stated, you obviously still need to adhere to archaic animal/human sacrifice.
When you take a few steps back, the UR and ET camp really do not appear that different and put you all in the same building, you will all sing from the same songsheet anyway. Hence if you both worship Jesus (someone I believe existed but not god incarnate) then the differences are subtle only.
Like I stated, the UR koolaid is more palatable but koolaid nonetheless. Both evolved from the early church circa 300-400CE and like gnostics, UR and ET are sects of the same pie.
I will give the UR camp this much, there does appear to be more tolerance and "brotherly love" exhibited than in the fundie ET camp so in essence I would call you folk rather true christians(tm) than the fundies.
The fact that the RCC have shown flexibility iro evolution as opposed to the fundie camp, proves to me that xianity was/is made up as you go along. Trouble is, the YEC campers are dredging the barrel to try and make the "inerrant" bible stand up to the overwhelming evidence against it. That said, I never ever took the flood or much of Genesis as literal in the first place probably because I was never taught creationism/ID at school, we learned real science.
I think there is enough evidence to show that xianity principles/dogmas are borrowed from other pagan beliefs.
No satan did not have sex with eve..Adam did..and through their union cain was born..
gen 4:
1And Adam knew Eve his wife; and she conceived, and bare Cain, and said, I have gotten a man from the LORD.
Later we are told that cain was of the evil one 1 jn 3:
12Not as Cain, who was of that wicked one, and slew his brother. And wherefore slew he him? Because his own works were evil, and his brother's righteous.
So the serpents seed comes into the world through normal sexual relations of a man and women, and God determines who is and who is not of the serpent seed..
No satan did not have sex with eve..Adam did..and through their union cain was born..
gen 4:
1And Adam knew Eve his wife; and she conceived, and bare Cain, and said, I have gotten a man from the LORD.
Later we are told that cain was of the evil one 1 jn 3:
12Not as Cain, who was of that wicked one, and slew his brother. And wherefore slew he him? Because his own works were evil, and his brother's righteous.
So the serpents seed comes into the world through normal sexual relations of a man and women, and God determines who is and who is not of the serpent seed..
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God bless.
