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Old 07-31-2009, 08:07 AM
 
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Fundamentalist View Post
There is this colossal, misguided misconception in the world today even among many Christians that God does things that are good, that is wrong. Things are good because God does it.
Abraham would not agree. He asked God if the Judge of the earth would not do right. Silly question to ask if the definition of "right" is "whatever God does".
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Old 07-31-2009, 08:17 AM
 
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Thy Kingdom Come View Post
Abraham would not agree. He asked God if the Judge of the earth would not do right. Silly question to ask if the definition of "right" is "whatever God does".
Excellent point.
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Old 07-31-2009, 08:23 AM
 
Location: Somewhere
6,370 posts, read 7,030,758 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Eusebius View Post
If eternal torment or annihilation is true, then God is the most diabolical being in the universe.

Imagine a God who brings humans into existance and then blinds them on purpose to the gospel just so they can spend eternity in some hell?


Mat 11:25 At that season, answering, Jesus said, "I am acclaiming Thee,
Father, Lord of heaven and earth, for Thou hidest these things from the
wise and intelligent and Thou dost reveal them to minors."

Jesus may as well have said "I thank Thee Father, LORD OF HEAVEN AND EARTH, that you blinded these people for the sole purpose of eternally torturing them.

And if that's not bad enough, God chose just certain ones before they were ever born to be saved from His eternal torture chamber which means He did not choose the rest of the billions and billions of humanity.

Eph 1:4 according as He chooses us in Him before the disruption of the world, we to be holy and flawless in His sight,

Rom 9:21 Or has not the potter the right over the clay, out of the same
kneading to make one vessel, indeed, for honor, yet one for dishonor?
Rom 9:22 Now if God, wanting to display His indignation and to make His
powerful doings known, carries, with much patience, the vessels of
indignation, adapted for destruction,
Rom 9:23 it is that He should also be making known the riches of His glory
on the vessels of mercy, which He makes ready before for glory -"
Rom 9:24 us, whom He calls also, not only out of the Jews, but out of the
nations also."

And Jesus colluded with the Father to blind humans so they'd go to hell for eternity (if eternal torment is true) . . .

Mat 13:10-16 And, approaching, the disciples say to Him, "Wherefore art
Thou speaking in parables to them? (11) Now, answering, He said to
them that "To you has it been given to know the secrets of the kingdom
of the heavens, yet to those it has not been given." (12) For anyone
who has, to him shall be given, and he shall have a superfluity. Yet
anyone who has not, that also which he has shall be taken away from
him." (13) Therefore in parables am I speaking to them, seeing that,
observing, they are not observing, and hearing, they are not hearing,
neither are they understanding." (14) And filled up in them is the
prophecy of Isaiah, that is saying, '"In hearing, you will be hearing, and
may by no means be understanding, And observing, you will be observing,
and may by no means be perceiving." (15) For stoutened is the heart of
this people, And with their ears heavily they hear, And with their eyes
they squint, Lest at some time they may be perceiving with their eyes,
And with their ears should be hearing, And with their heart may be
understanding, And should be turning about, And I shall be healing
them.'" (16) Yet happy are your eyes, for they are observing, and your
ears, for they are hearing."

Of course God needs PR men to try to make Him look better so His PR men invented the free-will camp. But that won't work because even if man did have a free-will to reject God, they are still blinded by God before they could reject Him and are still made vessels of indignation before they could make any free-will choice to accept eternal heaven with such an ogre or eternal hell.

And if eternal torment is true, why would Christ even need to die in the first place? It seems like alot of wasted blood to me. After all, God chose us not to go to this eternal place of torture before Christ died.

Do you see the problems with eternal torment? It turns a loving God into a capricious, dispicable, manipulating, ogre of a god far worse than any god of the heathens.

I am so thankful that God will have all mankind to be saved (1 Tim.2:4-6; 4:10).
In light of God saving all, I can see how He can still be loving even though He chooses just so many for life in the future eons and how He could blind certain ones to the truth. I can see why Christ had to die for all mankind. Without Christ's death no one could be saved. By Christ's death all will be saved.
Amen!
Eusebius
Saviour of all Fellowship, universal reconciliation, salvation of all mankind
Most ETers believe in co-savior theology. They believe that they actually have a PART in their salvation. They are not like universalist in that regard which usually believe in a ONE Savior theology.

Paul
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Old 07-31-2009, 01:04 PM
 
Location: NC
14,882 posts, read 17,156,182 times
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Quote:
Imagine a God who brings humans into existance and then blinds them on purpose to the gospel just so they can spend eternity in some hell?


Mat 11:25 At that season, answering, Jesus said, "I am acclaiming Thee,
Father, Lord of heaven and earth, for Thou hidest these things from the
wise and intelligent and Thou dost reveal them to minors."

Jesus may as well have said "I thank Thee Father, LORD OF HEAVEN AND EARTH, that you blinded these people for the sole purpose of eternally torturing them.

And if that's not bad enough, God chose just certain ones before they were ever born to be saved from His eternal torture chamber which means He did not choose the rest of the billions and billions of humanity.
Right, Eusebius. God bless.
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Old 07-31-2009, 02:42 PM
 
Location: God's Country
23,015 posts, read 34,383,749 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by trettep View Post
Most ETers believe in co-savior theology. They believe that they actually have a PART in their salvation. They are not like universalist in that regard which usually believe in a ONE Savior theology.

Paul
I believe in ONE Savior, ONE God. No co savior, salvation is offered to everyone, we can't earn it, it is a free gift, but not everyone accepts this gift, some reject it.
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Old 07-31-2009, 02:46 PM
 
4,511 posts, read 7,520,198 times
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^

no ma'am, the free gift is wonderful, but those supposed to share it have little idea of a fair distribution, and are hence thriving on iniquity.
check with paul, you who know the scriptures so well.

imho.
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Old 07-31-2009, 02:48 PM
 
Location: God's Country
23,015 posts, read 34,383,749 times
Reputation: 31644
Quote:
Originally Posted by effie g-tad View Post
^

no ma'am, the free gift is wonderful, but those supposed to share it have little idea of a fair distribution, and are hence thriving on iniquity.
check with paul, you who know the scriptures so well.

imho.
I have no idea what you're trying to say.
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Old 07-31-2009, 02:52 PM
 
4,511 posts, read 7,520,198 times
Reputation: 827
neither do i get anything useful out of your self-assertive teachings.
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Old 07-31-2009, 03:01 PM
 
Location: God's Country
23,015 posts, read 34,383,749 times
Reputation: 31644
Quote:
Originally Posted by effie g-tad View Post
neither do i get anything useful out of your self-assertive teachings.
Ok, put me on ignore.
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Old 07-31-2009, 03:02 PM
 
Location: Somewhere
6,370 posts, read 7,030,758 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by I LOVE NORTH CAROLINA View Post
I believe in ONE Savior, ONE God. No co savior, salvation is offered to everyone, we can't earn it, it is a free gift, but not everyone accepts this gift, some reject it.
Then if it requires your ACCEPTANCE - then it is co-savior theology.

Paul
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