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b57, you are making a fool of yourself. We are told quite clearly in Rev 15:1 that God's wrath ends, so it is not eternal for anyone, including the wicked...... .....The fact is God's wrath ends at some point. Your false assertions do not change that truth.
Now, now, Legoman, before we call one another "fools", let us remember the words of Jesus:
Matthew 5:22: But I tell you that anyone who is angry with his brother will be subject to judgment. Again, anyone who says to his brother, 'Raca,' is answerable to the Sanhedrin. But anyone who says, 'You fool!' will be in danger of the fire of hell.
Ironically, those who call others "a fool" in this thread may not necessarily be too worried about Jesus' warnings of hellfire.
So we make the assumption that everlasting punishment and wrath are tied together? If I get mad at my son and take his car away with the statement that "you lose your car for a year", then: I have to stay mad at him for a year because I took the keys for a year? I give the keys back if I stop being mad before then? The punishment is mitigated by how long the judge stays angry?
Here is another option. God's wrath ends at due time, the unrighteous are sentenced to their punishment and sent to it, and then God isn't angry any more. But that has nothing to do with when the violators get out of punishment, if ever. The very most you can say is that perhaps the Lake of Fire isn't eternal for everyone put into it. But it definitely is for some: The devil, his angels, the antichrist and the false prophet. The Bible explicitly says that their punishment is "for ever and ever." It isn't debatable.
All the dead humans resurrected in the second resurrection are judged and, if their names are not found in the Book of Life, they are sentenced to the second death in the Lake of Fire. But it doesn't explicitly say that it is eternal for them. It might not be. We have a legitimate subjective issue there, because the Bible isn't specific. The Bible doesn't say that explicitly that everyone resurrected at the GWTJ is not in the Book of Life. The language hints at something else.
Last edited by Led Zeppelin; 08-06-2009 at 09:15 AM..
God's wrath in this context or the wrath of God overall against sin.
God puts His enemies under a footstool.
God has feet?
The hand of God......
God has hands?
God sees the wickedness......
God has eyes?
His hair was like wool.......
God is an african american male?
Like a hen who gathers her chicks
God is a woman?
The answer to all these questions is "No, not literally," or, "No, not at all"
I'm interested though, you talked about body parts in the context of questioning God having body parts, up until you got to the scalp. Why didn't you say "God has hair?" instead?
Legoman, beloved is not going to change his position, right now Just keep sharing the truth and God will bring the increase. Thanks for the thread! God bless.
I think we might be more beneficial to Legoman if we advise him of Jesus' admonition in Matthew 5:22, rather than encouraging him to continue speaking to another brother unkindly. Does God prosper a spirit of contentiousness? Review Galatians 5:22.
Wow, how ironic. I had never noticed these two verses shared the same referential numbers. It almost seems like a heavenly mneumonic device.
The bible speaks of the smoke of their torment..and how long does it last ?
rev 14:11
And the smoke of their torment ascendeth up for ever and ever: and they have no rest day nor night, who worship the beast and his image, and whosoever receiveth the mark of his name.
Wow, unending torment and no rest for ever and ever..after a million years, it hasent but begun..
If your translation is going to use "ever" then, in the Greek it is "for the evers of the evers" since "aion" is in the plural and genitive.
So it should be "for the ages of the ages" or "For the eons of the eons," in which case it is not eternal.
Also it is the smoke that ascends for the eons of the eons.
All will be reconciled. Jesus ONLY destroys sin by means of the Holy Spirit. There is NO other way to destroy sin. NONE. You can't find any other method in the scriptures to destroy sin at all. Jesus came to destroy the works of the Devil which is sin.
Paul
The Lord God says : The wages of sin is death. (meaning the soul that sinneth, it shall die)
You say: All will be reconciled.(meaning sinners will come alive) Jesus ONLY destroys sin by means of the Holy Spirit. There is NO other way to destroy sin.
You have added and change the law of the Most High at your own peril. Revelations 22: 18-19.
The Lord God says : The wages of sin is death. (meaning the soul that sinneth, it shall die)
You say: All will be reconciled.(meaning sinners will come alive) Jesus ONLY destroys sin by means of the Holy Spirit. There is NO other way to destroy sin.
You have added and change the law of the Most High at your own peril. Revelations 22: 18-19.
No, I'm saying that sinners will be destroyed by the Holy Spirit which is also LIFE.
Again, I tell you there is NO other means to destroy sin in the entire scriptures than by the Holy Spirit. But if you still disagree then present the scriptures that indicate otherwise.
Does not mean that the soul is eternally lost because Jesus says if we destroy our souls we'll get it back.
We actually don't get the life we lose back. We get life back but not the same life.
The only life that is Eternal is that which Jesus has. So anyone that Has His life will no longer exhibit the nature of their former lives but will instead now be Christ-like in their nature. Clones of that which is ALL GOOD. Even the RESEMBLENCE that takes place in the natural offspring is a type of this RESEMBLENCE that will take place in the Spiritual offspring.
Hi, I believe that the scriptures reveal that it is true. It was God's good pleasure to reconcile all to Himself (Col.1) Those who are unbelievers now will one day be believers and will swear allegiance to Him. God bless.
I believe that scripture reveal that it is not true.
I do not see any verse in Colossians 1 that says specifically that unbelievers will be reconciled to Himself one day.
I believe that scripture reveal that it is not true.
I do not see any verse in Colossians 1 that says specifically that unbelievers will be reconciled to Himself one day.
Can you find where the scriptures say SPECIFICALLY that "Presby" will be saved?
Paul
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