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Free will is the ultament source of which most of the false doctrine of the church flows from...IMO, of course. It all stems from the fact the man thinks he is in control of God`s creation. It all goes back to believing satan`s first lie.
They worship the creation over the creator(Rom 1:25). So many people only understand this to mean they worship nature or Satan. They don't realize its when people place the will of man over the will of God. The denial of Gods sovereignty is what this is referring to in as much as self worship and its ancient mythical/pagan trappings. In this way the false doctrine of free will makes the truth of God into a lie. The truth of God is his sovereignty and his purpose to reconcile all things to himself through Christ. Man changes this to - Gods will is subject to mans will so that only a few will be saved. This then further translates into all forms of legalism and salvation by works. Eventually Christ(word of God) death is made to not affect ... Its all about what we choose and what we want, for better or worse, and God is just left holding the ticket ... Forget it If God wants everyone to be saved, what we want matters more. And for so many people, what they want to believe is one of two things. Either they want to believe there is No God all together and so it doesn't matter anyway, or they want to believe It was their choice to believe in God and everyone else who doesn't make that choice while in this life the same way they did cant be saved. The word of God(Christ) literally is made to no affect.
Last edited by Ironmaw1776; 08-07-2009 at 07:25 PM..
Yea. I meant it how I said it. You know, like eternal torment. The doctrine you fight against.
I know you did . I think the whole system is corrupt , and Ironmaw in my opinion gives a great account of why it is.
It's not a swipe at the members but a swipe at the rulers of the system that spearhead it and control it's members through fear and indoctrinalization.
I have never fought eternal torment doctrine , i once believed it but know reject it vehemently .
Free will is the ultament source of which most of the false doctrine of the church flows from...IMO, of course. It all stems from the fact the man thinks he is in control of God`s creation. It all goes back to believing satan`s first lie.
Satan's first lie was telling Eve that she would not die even going against the will of God. It is the same lie being told today. Guess who is telling it?
And yes, we all have free will as Eve also did. We are not robots. Having free will does not negate God, nor His will. God just works around us, putting the pieces back together after we screw them up.
Satan's first lie was telling Eve that she would not die even going against the will of God. It is the same lie being told today. Guess who is telling it?
And yes, we all have free will as Eve also did. We are not robots. Having free will does not negate God, nor His will. God just works around us, putting the pieces back together after we screw them up.
We are not robots, we are his offspring. There is a big difference friend ... All things come from him and will return back to him again and he will renew all things. He will try us by his judgments and the inhabitants of the earth will know righteousness when his judgments are in the earth. Just like how daddy didn't let you do whatever you wanted but dealt with you in whatever way was necessary to train you and discipline you and teach you how to be the good person that you may be. Gods the same way and judgments are met out for the same purpose, out of love and for the reconciliation of the creature which he has made. The only difference is we are never to big to be chastised by Abba father in this life, though one day he will be all in all and there will be no more need for chastisement.
We are not robots, we are his offspring. There is a big difference friend ... All things come from him and will return back to him again and he will renew all things. He will try us by his judgments and the inhabitants of the earth will know righteousness when his judgments are in the earth. Just like how daddy didn't let you do whatever you wanted but dealt with you in whatever way was necessary to train you and discipline you and teach you how to be the good person that you may be. Gods the same way and judgments are met out for the same purpose, out of love and for the reconciliation of the creature which he has made. The only difference is we are never to big to be chastised by Abba father in this life, though one day he will be all in all and there will be no more need for chastisement.
You are sadly mistaken my friend. We are not ALL His, for most are of their father, the devil. Are you a sinner? If so, then you are as well, and are delusioned into believing in a lie. I was for a long tiime as well, but unless we are given a new heart, and become a new creation, made out of the fallen wrethed men we are, then we are hopelessly lost. I earnestly pray for this as well.
Jesus accomplished everything on the cross, for men to come to the Father, but we still have to walk the path, and do what we are told. This is not a self based righteousness, like the Pharisees of old. This is also not a works based salvation through hope and fear. This is called sanctification by faith out of love. You know, the gift that is given to those who believe.
You will know them by their fruits. Period. You know the fruits of the Spirit, because you posted them in another thread, or this one. I don't remember. But still, these gifts are given to those who believe. What of those who do not believe, nor have the Love of the Father to even cry out Abba Father? Who do not take the chastisments accordingly to His Glory, for our edification? These are not sons of the Most High, and are of their father, the devil. These people are carnal iin nature, and have not been transformed by the working of the Holy Spirit.
If these people die in this lost state, they are forever lost. They are not sheep, and they are not the good fruit. They are the tares, the goats, and the bad fruit. "Depart from me" is the words they will hear for denying the King and our Father. This is also what they SHOULD hear, for God is a Just God, and His Justice transends human reason. But His Laws will never change, and have NEVER changed. If men breakk them without repentance, then they are lost.
We are not robots, we are his offspring. There is a big difference friend ... All things come from him and will return back to him again and he will renew all things. He will try us by his judgments and the inhabitants of the earth will know righteousness when his judgments are in the earth. Just like how daddy didn't let you do whatever you wanted but dealt with you in whatever way was necessary to train you and discipline you and teach you how to be the good person that you may be. Gods the same way and judgments are met out for the same purpose, out of love and for the reconciliation of the creature which he has made. The only difference is we are never to big to be chastised by Abba father in this life, though one day he will be all in all and there will be no more need for chastisement.
You are sadly mistaken my friend. We are not ALL His, for most are of their father, the devil. Are you a sinner? If so, then you are as well, and are delusioned into believing in a lie. I was for a long tiime as well, but unless we are given a new heart, and become a new creation, made out of the fallen wrethed men we are, then we are hopelessly lost. I earnestly pray for this as well.
Jesus accomplished everything on the cross, for men to come to the Father, but we still have to walk the path, and do what we are told. This is not a self based righteousness, like the Pharisees of old. This is also not a works based salvation through hope and fear. This is called sanctification by faith out of love. You know, the gift that is given to those who believe.
You will know them by their fruits. Period. You know the fruits of the Spirit, because you posted them in another thread, or this one. I don't remember. But still, these gifts are given to those who believe. What of those who do not believe, nor have the Love of the Father to even cry out Abba Father? Who do not take the chastisments accordingly to His Glory, for our edification? These are not sons of the Most High, and are of their father, the devil. These people are carnal iin nature, and have not been transformed by the working of the Holy Spirit.
If these people die in this lost state, they are forever lost. They are not sheep, and they are not the good fruit. They are the tares, the goats, and the bad fruit. "Depart from me" is the words they will hear for denying the King and our Father. This is also what they SHOULD hear, for God is a Just God, and His Justice transends human reason. But His Laws will never change, and have NEVER changed. If men breakk them without repentance, then they are lost.
Act 17:28
"For in him we live, and move, and have our being; as certain also of your own poets have said, For we are also his offspring."
Who do you think he is speaking to in this verse? They were pagan Gnostic, the Stoicks ... These men were not spirit filled believers and Paul tells them we are all the offspring of God, not just the believers. Why do you think that Christ asked God to forgive his murderers whom he had called children of hell and the seed of the serpent? Even Satan is Gods offspring though in a fallen state, similar to man.
Act 17:28
"For in him we live, and move, and have our being; as certain also of your own poets have said, For we are also his offspring."
Who do you think he is speaking to in this verse? They were pagan Gnostic, the Stoicks ... These men were not spirit filled believers and Paul tells them we are all the offspring of God, not just the believers. Why do you think that Christ asked God to forgive his murderers whom he had called children of hell and the seed of the serpent? Even Satan is Gods offspring though in a fallen state, similar to man.
Keep reading. 30-31 and then most began sneering at what was told to them. Repent?? Are you kidding? They are TOLD to do something, or else. A few believed. Who do you think the Spirit was talking to? Faith comes by HEARING! You know,,,the gift.
Rom 10:17
So faith {comes} from hearing, and hearing by the word of Christ.
Quote:
Why do you think that Christ asked God to forgive his murderers whom he had called children of hell and the seed of the serpent?
Because He was going to be crucified no matter what. They KNOW NOT WHAT THEY DO! Like Pharoh, you know. God uses hardened hearts, and always has to further His purposes and His ways.
Quote:
Even Satan is Gods offspring though in a fallen state, similar to man
The Adversary is given the name of the one who opposes God. Satan, the devil, the serpent, etc. He only does what he is allowed to do. He also never does what he is not allowed to do. He is not a god, but rather the destoyer of men's souls. These are given to him to reign over and who are not Father's nor His Son's.
Satan's first lie was telling Eve that she would not die even going against the will of God. It is the same lie being told today. Guess who is telling it?
And yes, we all have free will as Eve also did. We are not robots. Having free will does not negate God, nor His will. God just works around us, putting the pieces back together after we screw them up.
Yes and be like God, knowing good from evil. Essentially be equal with God. Only God has absolute free will and what he desires to be accomplished will be and there is nothing you or I can do about it. Oh, man want`s to believe he can thwart God`s will. Even people on this forum believe they can thwart God`s will .They truly actually believe, their will is stronger than God`s. That is where their believe in ET comes from. It is man that makes the decision not God. So they don`t want to believe God would willingly torture billions and billions of people..think about that..billions and billions of people so they throw it back at man and say it is man who makes the decision. They don`t want God or anyone else telling them what to do.
As far as the robot thing, that line is used all the time by church followers who think their will is stronger than God`s. As a parent, do you think a baby,1 or 2 yrs old has free will or do you think a 2 yr old is a robot? Can you control a 1 or 2 yr old child? Can you get a child to do what you want them to do, or does your child run your house? Does a father just let his young child run out and play in the street all day because the child has free will and makes the decisions. Who makes the decisions in a family? Do the parents make the decisions of how to run the house or does the young child make his own decisions? After all , a young child is not a robot is he? If he is n ot a robot and makes his own decisions, how can the parents maintain order in the house? How do they conform the child to follow the rules and act in a proper way? Do you just let your child do whatever he wants because he isn`t a robot? Or maybe your child isn`t a robot but you can still control him and make him conform.
Friend, if you as a falliable unwise human being can control your young children then why do you not believe that an all knowing, all wise, infallable God who created you cannot conform you? The earthly family is a microcosm of the heavenly family. We create our children on earth..God created everyone on a grander scale. Fathers are head of the household in the earthly realm but we have a greater father in heaven. We control and conform our children on earth. God controls and conforms his created beings in the heavenly realm. It is said that baby`s are like clay that a parent can mold. A baby is a product of it`s environment but more importantly by the people who created it and shape it`s young life. We are the clay and God is the potter. The bible says that God directs a man`s steps. There are just too many verses that show god is in control of his creation. We choose to ignore it because we want to believe satan`s lie that we will be like God..equal with God..having free will like God. No, you are just the clay, my friend,whether you like it or not.
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This then further translates into all forms of legalism and salvation by works. Eventually Christ(word of God) death is made to not affect ... Its all about what we choose and what we want, for better or worse, and God is just left holding the ticket ... Forget it If God wants everyone to be saved, what we want matters more. And for so many people, what they want to believe is one of two things. Either they want to believe there is No God all together and so it doesn't matter anyway, or they want to believe It was their choice to believe in God and everyone else who doesn't make that choice while in this life the same way they did cant be saved. The word of God(Christ) literally is made to no affect.
Satan does not get to keep any 
