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Jesus said to him, "I am the way, and the truth, and the life; no one comes to the Father but through Me.
Um yep.. he's the gate. It would be impossible to bypass him in that respect. It is not saying there are those he stops from entering. He's not God's bodyguard trying to pick a fight...
Quote:
"Truly, truly, I say to you, he who does not enter by the door into the fold of the sheep, but climbs up some other way, he is a thief and a robber. But he who enters by the door is a shepherd of the sheep.
The Shepherd is Jesus, we are the sheep.. sheep don't enter.. false shepherds enter the wrong way. The sheep are already in there
Quote:
"I am the door; if anyone enters through Me, he will be saved, and will go in and out and find pasture.
If they enter through him they are saved... yet you just showed that he is the only door so they must enter through him so they are saved. There is nothing that says you will be stopped from entering through him or that you have to do one thing or another.
Quote:
"In My Father's house are many dwelling places; if it were not so, I would have told you; for I go to prepare a place for you. If I go and prepare a place for you, I will come again and receive you to Myself, that where I am, {there} you may be also.
How does this verse represent..if you do this or that you will not receive his promised spiritual life?
Quote:
There are more,,,but you should get the point.
I'm not sure you get the point. I said there are no verses that say if you do this or that you will not receive his promised spiritual life.
Ok, maybe I am misreading you, but when you say that statement, it seems like a contradiction. If Jesus did all the work, then there is no work we must do.
Yes, we will enter with him, but only because He will draw us in. It is Him drawing us that saves us, not us entering.
I had posted an article about this, but unfortunately it got removed due to copyright violation (sorry June). But the main point was this.
If it is not really Jesus sacrifice that finally saves us, but us making the good decision to "enter in" with Christ, then: It is an empty gesture to go through the motions of giving all the glory to God for our salvation, while at the same time continually believing that one's own good decisions and acts are the things which ultimately saved them.
We don't save ourself by "entering in". Christ did all the work.
Ok, maybe I am misreading you, but when you say that statement, it seems like a contradiction. If Jesus did all the work, then there is no work we must do.
Yes, we will enter with him, but only because He will draw us in. It is Him drawing us that saves us, not us entering.
I had posted an article about this, but unfortunately it got removed due to copyright violation (sorry June). But the main point was this.
If it is not really Jesus sacrifice that finally saves us, but us making the good decision to "enter in" with Christ, then: It is an empty gesture to go through the motions of giving all the glory to God for our salvation, while at the same time continually believing that one's own good decisions and acts are the things which ultimately saved them.
We don't save ourself by "entering in". Christ did all the work.
Ok, let's try this analogy then.
You are blind. You are walking around in the storms, completely in the dark, and are terrified. There is no saftey. There is no comfort. There is just you, walking around, hungry, blind, and wet, and miserably lonely.
You hear a whisper at a distance. It is amazing you can hear it, and really you cannot tell whether it is in your head, or that you actually heard it. But you hear it, none the less. He says,,,"come". You sense the direction, and start walking towards Him. But it gets quiet again, as the mud is heavy on your feet, and the hunger pains are really taking a toll on your strength. You taste the water on your lips, and it is sweet.
So you decide to stop, to see if the voice can be heard again. You listen, patiently. After what seems like hours,,,you hear it again...."Come". You realize that the voice is louder than a normal whisper, but still you are unsure that you heard it with your ears, or your mind. You continue the journey. You feel renewed in strength. Your feet feel lighter.
All at once,,you see something. You are not sure what you see, for you have never seen anything before. It may be what has been described as light. You continue on,,pressing forward,,and although your feet are deep in mud, and you are hungry,,this is different. This is glorious. You want so much to be near the light that nothing on this earth will deter you.
You climb a hill, and a shape takes shape. It is tall. It is wide. People have described the torture call crucifiction to you, and this blood soaked piece of wood looks like what they would use. You hear the voice again,,"pick it up, and come". Fear grips you like nothing you have ever known. If the person who died on this went through excruciating pain,,what lays in store for me? Why do I need this? What is it going to be used for? You continue though, towards the light, with the cross now draped across our back. It is heavy,,,so heavy.
As you approach the light, you see what looks like a wall. It is a wall so immense, that from one end to the other, you cannot see the ends. But, as you get closer, you see a door. It is the most beautiful door that words can describe. Perfect in every way. Of course, you only kow doors by touch, so you feel it. It feels like glass. It is the color of gold, decorated with jewels, but the remarkable beauty is overwelming. The light seems to eminating from the door. You tremble for a moment. You realize that you must now knock at this door, and are deeply afraid of what's on the other side.
You sit and ponder. As you are sitting, outside this wall, and this door,,,you hear it again,,,"come". It is clear as can be, and it is on the other side of the door. So, you knock. He who opens the door, is the One who has been calling you,,as He says to you, face to face,,,"Come in, you look hungry. Put the cross down now, as your journey is done". As you enter into the city,,all you see is light,,everywhere. The man who opened the door, leads you to a table, prepared especially for you. So you sit,,,grateful beyond measure,,,at this man who called you. He sits down beside you and says,,"thank you for coming". And at that moment, you realize you are home.
Now.
What you are trying to say is that Jesus Himself comes to you. He TAKES your hand,,and drags you into the door. This is where you and I differ. He is speaking, and we are listening. The city is built. The door is done. The Way is set. But it is us who make the journey, not Him. His journey is DONE. He is sitting at the right hand of the Father, right now. Our journey is ongoing. He does the calling, and like the story above, we have to make the journey. WE DO. And if we don't? Then what?
You are blind. You are walking around in the storms, completely in the dark, and are terrified. There is no saftey. There is no comfort. There is just you, walking around, hungry, blind, and wet, and miserably lonely.
You hear a whisper at a distance. It is amazing you can hear it, and really you cannot tell whether it is in your head, or that you actually heard it. But you hear it, none the less. He says,,,"come". You sense the direction, and start walking towards Him. But it gets quiet again, as the mud is heavy on your feet, and the hunger pains are really taking a toll on your strength. You taste the water on your lips, and it is sweet.
So you decide to stop, to see if the voice can be heard again. You listen, patiently. After what seems like hours,,,you hear it again...."Come". You realize that the voice is louder than a normal whisper, but still you are unsure that you heard it with your ears, or your mind. You continue the journey. You feel renewed in strength. Your feet feel lighter.
All at once,,you see something. You are not sure what you see, for you have never seen anything before. It may be what has been described as light. You continue on,,pressing forward,,and although your feet are deep in mud, and you are hungry,,this is different. This is glorious. You want so much to be near the light that nothing on this earth will deter you.
You climb a hill, and a shape takes shape. It is tall. It is wide. People have described the torture call crucifiction to you, and this blood soaked piece of wood looks like what they would use. You hear the voice again,,"pick it up, and come". Fear grips you like nothing you have ever known. If the person who died on this went through excruciating pain,,what lays in store for me? Why do I need this? What is it going to be used for? You continue though, towards the light, with the cross now draped across our back. It is heavy,,,so heavy.
As you approach the light, you see what looks like a wall. It is a wall so immense, that from one end to the other, you cannot see the ends. But, as you get closer, you see a door. It is the most beautiful door that words can describe. Perfect in every way. Of course, you only kow doors by touch, so you feel it. It feels like glass. It is the color of gold, decorated with jewels, but the remarkable beauty is overwelming. The light seems to eminating from the door. You tremble for a moment. You realize that you must now knock at this door, and are deeply afraid of what's on the other side.
You sit and ponder. As you are sitting, outside this wall, and this door,,,you hear it again,,,"come". It is clear as can be, and it is on the other side of the door. So, you knock. He who opens the door, is the One who has been calling you,,as He says to you, face to face,,,"Come in, you look hungry. Put the cross down now, as your journey is done". As you enter into the city,,all you see is light,,everywhere. The man who opened the door, leads you to a table, prepared especially for you. So you sit,,,grateful beyond measure,,,at this man who called you. He sits down beside you and says,,"thank you for coming". And at that moment, you realize you are home.
Now.
What you are trying to say is that Jesus Himself comes to you. He TAKES your hand,,and drags you into the door. This is where you and I differ. He is speaking, and we are listening. The city is built. The door is done. The Way is set. But it is us who make the journey, not Him. His journey is DONE. He is sitting at the right hand of the Father, right now. Our journey is ongoing. He does the calling, and like the story above, we have to make the journey. WE DO. And if we don't? Then what?
You are blind. You are walking around in the storms, completely in the dark, and are terrified. There is no saftey. There is no comfort. There is just you, walking around, hungry, blind, and wet, and miserably lonely.
You hear a whisper at a distance. It is amazing you can hear it, and really you cannot tell whether it is in your head, or that you actually heard it. But you hear it, none the less. He says,,,"come". You sense the direction, and start walking towards Him. But it gets quiet again, as the mud is heavy on your feet, and the hunger pains are really taking a toll on your strength. You taste the water on your lips, and it is sweet.
So you decide to stop, to see if the voice can be heard again. You listen, patiently. After what seems like hours,,,you hear it again...."Come". You realize that the voice is louder than a normal whisper, but still you are unsure that you heard it with your ears, or your mind. You continue the journey. You feel renewed in strength. Your feet feel lighter.
All at once,,you see something. You are not sure what you see, for you have never seen anything before. It may be what has been described as light. You continue on,,pressing forward,,and although your feet are deep in mud, and you are hungry,,this is different. This is glorious. You want so much to be near the light that nothing on this earth will deter you.
You climb a hill, and a shape takes shape. It is tall. It is wide. People have described the torture call crucifiction to you, and this blood soaked piece of wood looks like what they would use. You hear the voice again,,"pick it up, and come". Fear grips you like nothing you have ever known. If the person who died on this went through excruciating pain,,what lays in store for me? Why do I need this? What is it going to be used for? You continue though, towards the light, with the cross now draped across our back. It is heavy,,,so heavy.
As you approach the light, you see what looks like a wall. It is a wall so immense, that from one end to the other, you cannot see the ends. But, as you get closer, you see a door. It is the most beautiful door that words can describe. Perfect in every way. Of course, you only kow doors by touch, so you feel it. It feels like glass. It is the color of gold, decorated with jewels, but the remarkable beauty is overwelming. The light seems to eminating from the door. You tremble for a moment. You realize that you must now knock at this door, and are deeply afraid of what's on the other side.
You sit and ponder. As you are sitting, outside this wall, and this door,,,you hear it again,,,"come". It is clear as can be, and it is on the other side of the door. So, you knock. He who opens the door, is the One who has been calling you,,as He says to you, face to face,,,"Come in, you look hungry. Put the cross down now, as your journey is done". As you enter into the city,,all you see is light,,everywhere. The man who opened the door, leads you to a table, prepared especially for you. So you sit,,,grateful beyond measure,,,at this man who called you. He sits down beside you and says,,"thank you for coming". And at that moment, you realize you are home.
Now.
What you are trying to say is that Jesus Himself comes to you. He TAKES your hand,,and drags you into the door. This is where you and I differ. He is speaking, and we are listening. The city is built. The door is done. The Way is set. But it is us who make the journey, not Him. His journey is DONE. He is sitting at the right hand of the Father, right now. Our journey is ongoing. He does the calling, and like the story above, we have to make the journey. WE DO. And if we don't? Then what?
That was some good imagery. But what about this: Jesus leads us (with His voice, as in your illustration), but God draws (drags) us in.
John 6:44 No one can come to me unless the Father who sent me draws him, and I will raise him up at the last day.
The word there for "draws" has the same meaning as "drawing" a sword, or "dragging" a net full of fish. That is how the Father brings us to Christ. Does the sword "draw" itself? Do the fish "drag" themself in?
That was some good imagery. But what about this: Jesus leads us (with His voice, as in your illustration), but God draws (drags) us in.
John 6:44 No one can come to me unless the Father who sent me draws him, and I will raise him up at the last day.
The word there for "draws" has the same meaning as "drawing" a sword, or "dragging" a net full of fish. That is how the Father brings us to Christ. Does the sword "draw" itself? Do the fish "drag" themself in?
God drug us out of the mud of nothing, into THIS world. His Breath of Life. We are the clay, He is the Potter. Of course this would be true.
ALL will be raised on the last day, but all will not stay that way.
Yes I suppose all will praise and rejoice and worship the Lord saying "Thankyou for not annihilating me and annihilating those other heathens instead." All people will be glad.
Yes I suppose all will praise and rejoice and worship the Lord saying "Thankyou for not annihilating me and annihilating those other heathens instead." All people will be glad.
Sorry if you see Christians, who believe this, this way. Makes a person wonder about your heart.
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