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Notice in the Bible: from Genesis to the Flood, God had constant direct contact contact with men; from flood to Jacob the contacts greatly reduce. From Joseph to Solomon the contact comes sporadically. From Solomon to Jesus the contact is almost exclusively through a handful of prophets' scriptures. There are long gaps of time where there is no contact with man at all, notably Malachi to Jesus--400 years. Then we have the piece de resistance: Jesus--God among us! After the apostles, however all contact with man ceases. For 2000 years it is non-existent.
This tells me that preterism is more accurate a doctrine than futurism. Once Jerusalem was destroyed in 70 AD pretty much all of Jesus' and the apostles prophecies were completed. His Second Coming is still hotly debated, but there's only controversial scripture to support it--controversial meaning that it can be interpreted either way--it's either already happened or it will happen.
Another example: the 70th week. I happen to think the 70th week was part of the whole and continued in an uninterrupted line until 34 AD when the gospel went out to the gentiles. Futurists, for some reason, thinks God separated the 70th week from the 69th by a span of 2000 years, maybe a lot more--something He'd never done previously.
What I see from here on out is God managing mankind at arm's length. No more supernatural encounters with mankind. That precludes the rapture and all the phantasmagorical descriptions in Revelation. With the completion of Jesus' work on earth the Kingdom of God came to earth. The supernatural stuff ended (as there was no more need for it) and the Holy Spirit was able, for the first time, to dwell in men's hearts, via the salvation work of Jesus. And He will go on reigning in His now firmly-established Kingdom here on earth--inside Christians' hearts. And so it goes. And so it will go. For how long, who knows?
In 1981 Greece joined the European Union, making the number of nation-members ten. All the prophecy experts were having a field day--Revelation had been fulfilled. Their hopes were dashed, however, when two years later, two more countries joined, making the count twelve. Its current number now stands at about 25. A 25-headed beast of Revelation? Doesn't sound quite like John's vision, does it. And don't look for 15 countries to drop out. If anything, the Union will just keep getting bigger. So much for the "Revived Roman Empire" that formed one of the lynchpins of Lindsey's LGPE. Look for more of Revelation's prophecies to be invalidated. There's a simple reason: they've already been fulfilled.
Last edited by thrillobyte; 09-18-2009 at 09:51 AM..
Notice in the Bible: from Genesis to the Flood, God had constant direct contact contact with men; from flood to Jacob the contacts greatly reduce. From Joseph to Solomon the contact comes sporadically. From Solomon to Jesus the contact is almost exclusively through a handful of prophets' scriptures. There are long gaps of time where there is no contact with man at all, notably Malachi to Jesus--400 years. Then we have the piece de resistance: Jesus--God among us! After the apostles, however all contact with man ceases. For 2000 years it is non-existent.
This tells me that preterism is more accurate a doctrine than futurism. Once Jerusalem was destroyed in 70 AD pretty much all of Jesus' and the apostles prophecies were completed. His Second Coming is still hotly debated, but there's only controversial scripture to support it--controversial meaning that it can be interpreted either way--it's either already happened or it will happen.
Another example: the 70th week. I happen to think the 70th week was part of the whole and continued in an uninterrupted line until 34 AD when the gospel went out to the gentiles. Futurists, for some reason, thinks God separated the 70th week from the 69th by a span of 2000 years, maybe a lot more--something He'd never done previously.
What I see from here on out is God managing mankind at arm's length. No more supernatural encounters with mankind. That precludes the rapture and all the phantasmagorical descriptions in Revelation. With the completion of Jesus' work on earth the Kingdom of God came to earth. The supernatural stuff ended (as there was no more need for it) and the Holy Spirit was able, for the first time, to dwell in men's hearts, via the salvation work of Jesus. And He will go on reigning in His now firmly-established Kingdom here on earth--inside Christians' hearts. And so it goes. And so it will go. For how long, who knows?
In 1981 Greece joined the European Union, making the number of nation-members ten. All the prophecy experts were having a field day--Revelation had been fulfilled. Their hopes were dashed, however, when two years later, two more countries joined, making the count twelve. Its current number now stands at about 25. A 25-headed beast of Revelation? Doesn't sound quite like John's vision, does it. And don't look for 15 countries to drop out. If anything, the Union will just keep getting bigger. So much for the "Revived Roman Empire" that formed one of the lynchpins of Lindsey's LGPE. Look for more of Revelation's prophecies to be invalidated. There's a simple reason: they've already been fulfilled.
I agree. As devil's advocate I would say but if all supernatural things are in the past , how do you explain all those people healed by getting saved or prayers of others... Isn't that supernatural? Just like the apostles did?
I agree. As devil's advocate I would say but if all supernatural things are in the past , how do you explain all those people healed by getting saved or prayers of others... Isn't that supernatural? Just like the apostles did?
I didn't mean to imply that miracles have ceased, kat. God continues to move powerfully with healings, testimonies, great revivals, etc. but these are at the personal level. I was referring more to moving in a prophetic way to fulfill scripture. It's already all been accomplished. Even the founding of Israel in 1948 was not the fulfillment of any particular scripture saying such. The scriptures in Deuteronomy and Ezekiel 37's "dry bones" that refer to Jews returning to Israel were all fulfilled in Cyrus the Persian's Edict of 539 BC. Whatever followed was simply God moving on the stage of history as He did with WW2, the Holocaust, the Vietnam War, Reagan being elected, etc.
Last edited by thrillobyte; 09-18-2009 at 10:31 AM..
God doesn't withdraw from man. Man withdraws from God. God is within us and until man figures that out then it will seem as if God had withdrawn.
There are plenty of prophets today. Most people disregard them because it's not biblical. What rubbish. Just because it's not in the bible, does not mean it isn't true. I'm well acquainted with someone in my church that has actually spoken to God and He came through loud and clear. It takes a highly developed soul to do that and this person is.
No, God has not withdrawn. It's man who needs to realize that God has been here all along and that it's man who needs to realize that God is within all.
I didn't mean to imply that miracles have ceased, kat. God continues to move powerfully with healings, testimonies, great revivals, etc. but these are at the personal level. I was referring more to moving in a prophetic way to fulfill scripture. It's already all been accomplished. Even the founding of Israel in 1948 was not the fulfillment of any particular scripture saying such. The scriptures referring to Jews returning to Israel were all fulfilled in Cyrus the Persian's Edict of 539 BC. Whatever followed was simply God moving on the stage of history as He did with WW2, the Holocaust, the Vietnam War, Reagan being elected, etc.
Thank you for clarifying that. It is what I believe too. It is the Holy Spirit (Love) which heals the heart, body, and mind. That was what culminated in 70 AD. I wholly agree.
I'm game, Fun. show me a scripture that has been fulfilled in the last 100 years and I'll show you a comparable fulfillment of it pre-70 AD.
I am totally confused? Are you looking for something specific like an end time event? because I see so many things going on for e.g. they will worship the creation rather than the creator, people will leave sound doctrine to have their ears tickled, church of laodicea, many anti-christ(s).....there are so many events going in the world today that I see in scripture.
Last edited by Fundamentalist; 09-18-2009 at 11:01 AM..
I am totally confused? Are you looking for something specific like an end time event? because I see so many things going on for e.g. they will worship the creation rather than the creator, people will leave sound doctrine to have their ears tickled, church of laodicean, many anti-christ(s).....there are so many events going in the world today that I see in scripture.
Yes, the Scriptures are constantly being fulfilled. It is not a series of one-time events we should be looking for. The prophecies are spiritual in nature and have been fulfilled, are being fulfilled and will be fulfilled in each generation and in the life of each individual believer. Jesus has come, He is coming now, and He will come in the future. God has not left us, He has not withdrawn, but often we can be so fixated on the future and/or the past that we cannot see Him in the present.
(I do believe that there will be a final, consumate fulfilling of the prophecies because Scripture inicates that, imho. I'm just not sure we'll understand clearly how that fulfillment will look until it's already happened... I'm not one who believes in the "rapture" or a 7 year tribulation or anything of that sort.)
Yes, the Scriptures are constantly being fulfilled. It is not a series of one-time events we should be looking for. The prophecies are spiritual in nature and have been fulfilled, are being fulfilled and will be fulfilled in each generation and in the life of each individual believer. Jesus has come, He is coming now, and He will come in the future. God has not left us, He has not withdrawn, but often we can be so fixated on the future and/or the past that we cannot see Him in the present.
(I do believe that there will be a final, consumate fulfilling of the prophecies because Scripture inicates that, imho. I'm just not sure we'll understand clearly how that fulfillment will look until it's already happened... I'm not one who believes in the "rapture" or a 7 year tribulation or anything of that sort.)
I think the culmination was in the past but the present and future are a work in us that progresses. The bottom line is Jesus came to fulfill the promise that God would reconcile us to him. That has been fulfilled. We are the example of what has been done, not what will be done.
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I would say but if all supernatural things are in the past , how do you explain all those people healed by getting saved or prayers of others... Isn't that supernatural? Just like the apostles did?
