Who is written in the Book of Life? (punishment, church, belief)
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Rev.20:12-15: "And I saw the dead, small and great, stand before God; and the books were opened: and another book was opened, which is the book of life: and the dead were judged out of those things which were written in the books, according to their works. And the sea gave up the dead which were in it; and death and hell delivered up the dead which were in them: and they were judged every man according to their works. And death and hell were cast into the lake of fire. This is the second death. And whosoever was not found written in the book of life was cast into the lake of fire."
I'm really curious how this works....if the Lake of Fire is Hell where people will be eternally tormented...How can Hell be thrown into Hell? If Hell is destroyed in the Lake of Fire, it would stand to reason that The Lake of Fire isn't Hell...can anyone try to explain this one.
There are two basic ways I understand this verse...both ways work.
FIRST WAY -
When the bible says that: "And death and hell were cast into the lake of fire" I see in the very next few sentences a means to understand what this is talking about. "This is the second death. And whosoever was not found written in the book of life was cast into the lake of fire"
So this "lake of fire" is said to receive Death and Hell, and this seems to then be said to be speaking of the people who had no name in the book of life.
What does that mean?
I think all it means that the Lost (non-believers who are not Christian so they do not have their name written in the book of life) are tossed into the lake of fire.
Thats it.
To sum up the first way- I think this is just John's fancy way of saying that the Lost get tossed into the lake of fire.
SECOND WAY-
John is talking about death as a concept being no longer valid.
Death for humans no longer has any hold of us.
Death is over.
So putting death into the lake of fire is just a fancy way of saying that death is finished and no longer around anymore to bother us.
same for Hell.
"Hell is a fancy term some used in the past to just talk about the dead.
This is why we Christians can say that Jesus descended into Hell, but that just means he went into the grave. (Because we know the moment Jesus died he went to heaven to the Father.)
So hell = grave
When it says that Hell is tossed into the lake of fire it means that hell, has finished its purpose and is no longer around.
Hell would be seen then as being very much like the grave.
My grave after the resurrection will be pointless.
My grave will be empty.
So to sum up the second way - So when it says that hell will be tossed into the lake of fire that is just a fancy way of saying that there is no point to our graves after the resurrection.
When it says that Hell is tossed into the lake of fire it means that hell, has finished its purpose and is no longer around.
Hell would be seen then as being very much like the grave.
My grave after the resurrection will be pointless.
My grave will be empty.
Hell is from the Hebrew etymons for "hollow", and sheol and hell are both the same word, denoting the hollow places of the earth which Enoch saw and which Jesus told about in Luke 16, and which are mentioned as the abode of the speaking, dead souls, in Enoch and in the OT.
Isa 14:9Hell from beneath is moved for thee to meet [thee] at thy coming: it stirreth up the dead for thee, [even] all the chief ones of theearth; it hath raised up from their thrones all the kings of the nations. Isa 14:10All they shall speak and say unto thee, Art thou also become weak as we? art thou become like unto us?
The hollow of the earth has four separated places, which Enoch reported on when he was taken on the tour of the universe. The chained angels are in the lowest chambers of the hollow/Sheol/hell of earth
And Hell is also an entity, the messenger of death, who is a Satan, who claims the victims for Hell/Sheol, the feminine counterpart entity to the messenger of death, in the OT.
He takes em to her, and she opens her mouth wide to receive them, and sometimes she enlarges "herself" -the hollows she controls below, to make room for massive amounts of souls descending in great calamities -like wars, earthquakes, and so on.
In God's creation every force is an entity answerable to the Creator, like the lightning, clouds, winds, etc, and all answer to the angels set over them, who answer up the chain of command of the host of heaven, directly to God. Job 38:35 Canst thou send lightnings, that they may go, and say unto thee, Here we [are]? Rev 7:1 And after these things I saw four angels standing on the four corners of the earth, holding the four winds of the earth, that the wind should not blow on the earth, nor on the sea, nor on any tree.
Isa 5:14Therefore hell hath enlarged herself, and opened her mouth without measure: and their glory, and their multitude, and their pomp, and he that rejoiceth, shall descend into it.
Enoch and the OT and NT show that the host of heaven are regulated by the Creator much as an army is, and are not free to go "rogue" without being chained, or cast into the Lake of Fire.
Yes, when I say that Jesus descended into hell, I mean that they put his dead body into a grave.
In the same way I can also say that when I die I too will descend into hell...because Im only talking about the actual grave.
Thus I believe one way to understand John's comment about hell being tossed into the lake of fire is that this is his fancy way of saying that there will be no graves in the next Kingdom...for no one will ever die
Yes, when I say that Jesus descended into hell, I mean that they put his dead body into a grave.
In the same way I can also say that when I die I too will descend into hell...because Im only talking about the actual grave.
Thus I believe one way to understand John's comment about hell being tossed into the lake of fire is that this is his fancy way of saying that there will be no graves in the next Kingdom...for no one will ever die
I personally believe Jesus went to Hades and declared victory over the imprisoned spirits but I wouldn't be dogmatic about it because that is one of the toughest verses in the bible.
Last edited by Fundamentalist; 10-01-2009 at 09:03 AM..
The problem with that idea , is not the idea itself,,,(It actually might be true)...
I dont have a real problem with the idea itself,
However...
The problem comes when people start to add and color in the story and soon you end up with the Devil holding Jesus on a rack, torching him, and then you have to have some angels ride into the rescue,,,and soon that leads to other even more mixed up ideas...
All this is because there are some tricky to understand verses in the bible on that topic, and the human need to fill-in the parts we don't fully understand...
So I tend to just avoid the whole idea...
I hold that Jesus died on the cross, that his spirit went to the Father, and his body into a tomb.
The problem with that idea , is not the idea itself,,,(It actually might be true)...
I dont have a real problem with the idea itself,
However...
The problem comes when people start to add and color in the story and soon you end up with the Devil holding Jesus on a rack, torching him, and then you have to have some angels ride into the rescue,,,and soon that leads to other even more mixed up ideas...
All this is because there are some tricky to understand verses in the bible on that topic, and the human need to fill-in the parts we don't fully understand...
So I tend to just avoid the whole idea...
I hold that Jesus died on the cross, that his spirit went to the Father, and his body into a tomb.
The problem is that the words "second death" are a little confusing. We know from reading scripture that there is one time for a man to die and he can die no more or Christ would have to keep paying for sins.
However, there is physical death and spiritual death. If the first death is spiritual death and the second death is physical death... how does that affect the reading of the verse? This also accounts for the second death being destroyed. But that cannot give reason to hell being destroyed in hell. It is actually Hades that is thrown into the lake of fire.
Hell as we know it does not exist. Hades is a holding place, Jesus says we shall not all sleep. Sleeping is referring to Hades. We shall all be changed. So if Hades is thrown into the lake of fire, we are not annihilated, we are changed.
Last edited by katjonjj; 10-01-2009 at 09:55 AM..
Reason: added spacing to huge paragraph for easier reading
I'm really curious how this works....if the Lake of Fire is Hell where people will be eternally tormented...How can Hell be thrown into Hell? If Hell is destroyed in the Lake of Fire, it would stand to reason that The Lake of Fire isn't Hell...can anyone try to explain this one.
Hell = Grave, where the dead rest. Death - when we consciously and physically cease to exist on earth with the living. Death and Death's Location, the grave, will be destroyed.
The problem is that the words "second death" are a little confusing. We know from reading scripture that there is one time for a man to die and he can die no more or Christ would have to keep paying for sins.
However, there is physical death and spiritual death. If the first death is spiritual death and the second death is physical death... how does that affect the reading of the verse? This also accounts for the second death being destroyed. But that cannot give reason to hell being destroyed in hell. It is actually Hades that is thrown into the lake of fire.
Hell as we know it does not exist. Hades is a holding place, Jesus says we shall not all sleep. Sleeping is referring to Hades. We shall all be changed. So if Hades is thrown into the lake of fire, we are not annihilated, we are changed.
Death is a separation.
The first death was Adam's separation from God's glory which dwells in His created sons. Luke 3:38; "Adam son of God".
The loss of being sons of God made Adam a vain creation, with no glory or purpose. The shame of the loss is why we in Adam wear clothes, not to hide "nakedness", but to cover the shame of our vain purposeless being, since the Glory departed at the fall and we lost sonship in Adam.
The first death is remedied by the Atonement of the Second Man, for "whosoever will".
Jesus is come to bring many [adopted] sons to glory, by His Atonement of cleansing blood and by His adoption of us as His sons, which comes when we are born again, which is regeneration of spirit.
The second death has no power over the adopted sons, and the second death has no remedy. It is final and forever separation from the Glory of God, with no more offers for becoming sons of God made for the Glory to those delivered over to the second death. That is why it is said of those cast into the second death that; "The worm never dies"
Adam is the worm that never dies, in Sheol, which means that there will never be the change offered to those cast there to go through metamorphosis, to emerge in the glorious image of the sons of God, in the regeneration.
The first death was Adam's separation from God's glory which dwells in His created sons. Luke 3:38; "Adam son of God".
The loss of being sons of God made Adam a vain creation, with no glory or purpose. The shame of the loss is why we in Adam wear clothes, not to hide "nakedness", but to cover the shame of our vain purposeless being, since the Glory departed at the fall and we lost sonship in Adam.
The first death is remedied by the Atonement of the Second Man, for "whosoever will".
Jesus is come to bring many [adopted] sons to glory, by His Atonement of cleansing blood and by His adoption of us as His sons, which comes when we are born again, which is regeneration of spirit.
The second death has no power over the adopted sons, and the second death has no remedy. It is final and forever separation from the Glory of God, with no more offers for becoming sons of God made for the Glory to those delivered over to the second death. That is why it is said of those cast into the second death that; "The worm never dies"
Adam is the worm that never dies, in Sheol, which means that there will never be the change offered to those cast there to go through metamorphosis, to emerge in the glorious image of the sons of God, in the regeneration.
where do you get this stuff?
Ambiguous verses and you have the answers!
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