Forgiveness!! (believe, scripture, sinners, disciples) - Christianity - - City-Data Forum

Cyber Munchkin · 11-02-2009, 06:31 AM

From the thread of Once SAVED Always SAVED: Eternal ! Not to take it off topic.....

I do have a question?

It was asked of the Lord Jesus that if our brother sins against us, how many times in a day are we to forgive that brother who sins against us.....?
Now what I have read in the scripture, Jesus replied to him, 70 x 7, which to my understanding would be that we are to continue forgiving him .....

My question is........
How is it then, that if the Lord Jesus commands us to forgive other's with a heart of unlimited forgiveness, that if a child of God should happen to falter and sin, not talking about one who is practicing a life of sin, but one who is striving unto perfection has sinned, that this individual by some people here believe and are teaching in this forum that one is a child of the devil or they are not saved in the first place?

Does that not contradict what Christ taught of forgiving our brother and yet if child of God does sin they are of the devil and never was a child of God?

I mean if we are to forgive other's who keep sinning 70x7 in a day, now the Lord did say "If your brother".....why would some say if one should sin they are not a child of God? Why wouldn't the Father not forgive one who is striving to do his will yet has faltered at times in their walk and stumble in the flesh with sin, be told by the Lord Jesus to forgive others of their sin and yet if they sin they are either not saved and are of the devil......?

I am sorry but something is not right with this teaching I have been reading and there is scripture that does teach that we have a Advocate, Jesus Christ...... ?
I believe the Lord knows the heart and one who truly is trusting Him, but at some time have faltered in their walk to the flesh and the Father will forgive ....them!!

1 John 2:1-2
My little children, these things I write to you, so that you may not sin. And if anyone sins, we have an Advocate with the Father, Jesus Christ the righteous.
2 And He Himself is the propitiation for our sins, and not for ours only but also for the whole world.

Did one see the "you may not sin" and the "if anyone sins" and the "we have an Advocate with the Father, Jesus Christ the righteous" and the "He Himself is the propitiation for our sins" !!!

Now I am not justifying sin or suggesting a life of compromise...in the life of a believer! But it seems some are teaching a yoke of bondage, confusion saying that if one happens to sin they are not a child of God, that they have never been forgiven of their sin, and are not believing and trusting in Jesus Christ as their Lord and Savior. But are of the devil, a child of the devil.....

The life of a believer is that we are walking in the His Spirit..... a life that is in the process of sanctification.
Which to me means is everyday one is learning the will of God, learning to surrender self, the flesh and its struggles in this life even with the battles of the flesh and the spirit. Learning to trust, believe the Father and that He will bring it to completion in that life till the day of our Lord Jesus Christ returns......

Blessings

ChristyGrl · 11-02-2009, 07:13 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Latte'Chic

From the thread of Once SAVED Always SAVED: Eternal ! Not to take it off topic.....

I do have a question?

It was asked of the Lord Jesus that if our brother sins against us, how many times in a day are we to forgive that brother who sins against us.....?
Now what I have read in the scripture, Jesus replied to him, 70 x 7, which to my understanding would be that we are to continue forgiving him .....

My question is........
How is it then, that if the Lord Jesus commands us to forgive other's with a heart of unlimited forgiveness, that if a child of God should happen to falter and sin, not talking about one who is practicing a life of sin, but one who is striving unto perfection has sinned, that this individual by some people here believe and are teaching in this forum that one is a child of the devil or they are not saved in the first place?

Does that not contradict what Christ taught of forgiving our brother and yet if child of God does sin they are of the devil and never was a child of God?

I mean if we are to forgive other's who keep sinning 70x7 in a day, now the Lord did say "If your brother".....why would some say if one should sin they are not a child of God? Why wouldn't the Father not forgive one who is striving to do his will yet has faltered at times in their walk and stumble in the flesh with sin, be told by the Lord Jesus to forgive others of their sin and yet if they sin they are either not saved and are of the devil......?

I am sorry but something is not right with this teaching I have been reading and there is scripture that does teach that we have a Advocate, Jesus Christ...... ?
I believe the Lord knows the heart and one who truly is trusting Him, but at some time have faltered in their walk to the flesh and the Father will forgive ....them!!

1 John 2:1-2
My little children, these things I write to you, so that you may not sin. And if anyone sins, we have an Advocate with the Father, Jesus Christ the righteous.
2 And He Himself is the propitiation for our sins, and not for ours only but also for the whole world.

Did one see the "you may not sin" and the "if anyone sins" and the "we have an Advocate with the Father, Jesus Christ the righteous" and the "He Himself is the propitiation for our sins" !!!

Now I am not justifying sin or suggesting a life of compromise...in the life of a believer! But it seems some are teaching a yoke of bondage, confusion saying that if one happens to sin they are not a child of God, that they have never been forgiven of their sin, and are not believing and trusting in Jesus Christ as their Lord and Savior. But are of the devil, a child of the devil.....

The life of a believer is that we are walking in the His Spirit..... a life that is in the process of sanctification.
Which to me means is everyday one is learning the will of God, learning to surrender self, the flesh and its struggles in this life even with the battles of the flesh and the spirit. Learning to trust, believe the Father and that He will bring it to completion in that life till the day of our Lord Jesus Christ returns......

Blessings

You are on the right path....STAY THERE...and don't listen to those who are trying to place another yoke of bondage on Christians....Gods Spirit will be the only guide you need.

Marks · 11-02-2009, 07:26 AM

Beautiful Latte'Chic

katjonjj · 11-02-2009, 10:04 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Latte'Chic

From the thread of Once SAVED Always SAVED: Eternal ! Not to take it off topic.....

I do have a question?

It was asked of the Lord Jesus that if our brother sins against us, how many times in a day are we to forgive that brother who sins against us.....?
Now what I have read in the scripture, Jesus replied to him, 70 x 7, which to my understanding would be that we are to continue forgiving him .....

My question is........
How is it then, that if the Lord Jesus commands us to forgive other's with a heart of unlimited forgiveness, that if a child of God should happen to falter and sin, not talking about one who is practicing a life of sin, but one who is striving unto perfection has sinned, that this individual by some people here believe and are teaching in this forum that one is a child of the devil or they are not saved in the first place?

Does that not contradict what Christ taught of forgiving our brother and yet if child of God does sin they are of the devil and never was a child of God?

I mean if we are to forgive other's who keep sinning 70x7 in a day, now the Lord did say "If your brother".....why would some say if one should sin they are not a child of God? Why wouldn't the Father not forgive one who is striving to do his will yet has faltered at times in their walk and stumble in the flesh with sin, be told by the Lord Jesus to forgive others of their sin and yet if they sin they are either not saved and are of the devil......?

I am sorry but something is not right with this teaching I have been reading and there is scripture that does teach that we have a Advocate, Jesus Christ...... ?
I believe the Lord knows the heart and one who truly is trusting Him, but at some time have faltered in their walk to the flesh and the Father will forgive ....them!!

1 John 2:1-2
My little children, these things I write to you, so that you may not sin. And if anyone sins, we have an Advocate with the Father, Jesus Christ the righteous.
2 And He Himself is the propitiation for our sins, and not for ours only but also for the whole world.

Did one see the "you may not sin" and the "if anyone sins" and the "we have an Advocate with the Father, Jesus Christ the righteous" and the "He Himself is the propitiation for our sins" !!!

Now I am not justifying sin or suggesting a life of compromise...in the life of a believer! But it seems some are teaching a yoke of bondage, confusion saying that if one happens to sin they are not a child of God, that they have never been forgiven of their sin, and are not believing and trusting in Jesus Christ as their Lord and Savior. But are of the devil, a child of the devil.....

The life of a believer is that we are walking in the His Spirit..... a life that is in the process of sanctification.
Which to me means is everyday one is learning the will of God, learning to surrender self, the flesh and its struggles in this life even with the battles of the flesh and the spirit. Learning to trust, believe the Father and that He will bring it to completion in that life till the day of our Lord Jesus Christ returns......

Blessings

Great post!
Romans 5-6 talks about how grace and sin are directly proportional to one another. an increase in sin equal an increase in grace. That is why there can never be "too much sin" that you can't be forgiven it. Grace abounds all the more.

little elmer · 11-02-2009, 10:12 AM

You can consider this the heart of God, and then scrutinize a lot of what's being considered "truth" nowadays. Our God is a consuming fire, Who loves us very much.

.sparrow. · 11-02-2009, 11:48 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by ChristyGrl

You are on the right path....STAY THERE...and don't listen to those who are trying to place another yoke of bondage on Christians....Gods Spirit will be the only guide you need.

I was getting ready to post the exact same thing.

Blessed are those whose spirit becomes troubled over something...and who are moved to seek.

God bless.

legoman · 11-02-2009, 01:02 PM

Great OP Latte. Forgiveness is a key part of understanding God's love. Its a key part of being made in the image of God.

God is love, God forgives. Specifically:

1 Cor 13:5 ... it keeps no record of wrongs.

That's how complete our forgivness needs to be: we need to NOT keep a record of wrongs AT ALL! That's tough to do.

Just a note on the 70x7 thing, I believe this is a symbol for full completeness, so we should offer complete forgiveness. Not even remembering their wrong a little bit - that is complete forgiveness. Whether a believer or unbeliever wrongs us, we need to forgive.

Harold Kupp · 11-02-2009, 01:27 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Latte'Chic

From the thread of Once SAVED Always SAVED: Eternal ! Not to take it off topic.....

I do have a question?

It was asked of the Lord Jesus that if our brother sins against us, how many times in a day are we to forgive that brother who sins against us.....?
Now what I have read in the scripture, Jesus replied to him, 70 x 7, which to my understanding would be that we are to continue forgiving him .....

My question is........
How is it then, that if the Lord Jesus commands us to forgive other's with a heart of unlimited forgiveness, that if a child of God should happen to falter and sin, not talking about one who is practicing a life of sin, but one who is striving unto perfection has sinned, that this individual by some people here believe and are teaching in this forum that one is a child of the devil or they are not saved in the first place?

Does that not contradict what Christ taught of forgiving our brother and yet if child of God does sin they are of the devil and never was a child of God?

I mean if we are to forgive other's who keep sinning 70x7 in a day, now the Lord did say "If your brother".....why would some say if one should sin they are not a child of God? Why wouldn't the Father not forgive one who is striving to do his will yet has faltered at times in their walk and stumble in the flesh with sin, be told by the Lord Jesus to forgive others of their sin and yet if they sin they are either not saved and are of the devil......?

I am sorry but something is not right with this teaching I have been reading and there is scripture that does teach that we have a Advocate, Jesus Christ...... ?
I believe the Lord knows the heart and one who truly is trusting Him, but at some time have faltered in their walk to the flesh and the Father will forgive ....them!!

1 John 2:1-2
My little children, these things I write to you, so that you may not sin. And if anyone sins, we have an Advocate with the Father, Jesus Christ the righteous.
2 And He Himself is the propitiation for our sins, and not for ours only but also for the whole world.

Did one see the "you may not sin" and the "if anyone sins" and the "we have an Advocate with the Father, Jesus Christ the righteous" and the "He Himself is the propitiation for our sins" !!!

Now I am not justifying sin or suggesting a life of compromise...in the life of a believer! But it seems some are teaching a yoke of bondage, confusion saying that if one happens to sin they are not a child of God, that they have never been forgiven of their sin, and are not believing and trusting in Jesus Christ as their Lord and Savior. But are of the devil, a child of the devil.....

The life of a believer is that we are walking in the His Spirit..... a life that is in the process of sanctification.
Which to me means is everyday one is learning the will of God, learning to surrender self, the flesh and its struggles in this life even with the battles of the flesh and the spirit. Learning to trust, believe the Father and that He will bring it to completion in that life till the day of our Lord Jesus Christ returns......

Blessings

Consider that trespassing against me is not the same as sinning against God. If the brother sins against God we are to cast him out - "not even to eat with such a one."

On the other hand, I may make an error or even in an emotional state knowingly not act in love (love is patient, love is kind etc, ) and if I go to you and "REPENT" you must forgive me.

Luke 17:3 Take heed to yourselves: If thy brother trespass against thee, rebuke him; and if he repent, forgive him.

However if I were to rape you - I am not your brother in Christ and you have no obligation to forgive me. In fact you must cast me out. (1 Co 5:9)

As for 1 John - he is referring to sins of ignorance against God.

The sin in 1 John - go here

We cannot possibly understand the question of sin if we do not distinguish between sins of ignorance and willful rebellion against God, just as God does in His word.

HK

little elmer · 11-02-2009, 04:55 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Harold Kupp

Consider that trespassing against me is not the same as sinning against God. If the brother sins against God we are to cast him out - "not even to eat with such a one."

And it came to pass, as Jesus sat at meat in the house, behold, many publicans and sinners came and sat down with Him and his disciples.

And when the Pharisees saw it, they said unto his disciples, Why eateth your Master with publicans and sinners?

But when Jesus heard that, He said unto them, They that be whole need not a physician, but they that are sick.

But go ye and learn what that meaneth, I will have mercy, and not sacrifice: for I am not come to call the righteous, but sinners to repentance. (Mat 9:10-13)

Harold Kupp · 11-02-2009, 05:01 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by little elmer

And it came to pass, as Jesus sat at meat in the house, behold, many publicans and sinners came and sat down with Him and his disciples.

And when the Pharisees saw it, they said unto his disciples, Why eateth your Master with publicans and sinners?

But when Jesus heard that, He said unto them, They that be whole need not a physician, but they that are sick.

But go ye and learn what that meaneth, I will have mercy, and not sacrifice: for I am not come to call the righteous, but sinners to repentance. (Mat 9:10-13)

I guess Paul did not understand Jesus the same way you do LE...

1Co 5:9 I wrote unto you in an epistle not to company with fornicators:

1Co 5:10 Yet not altogether with the fornicators of this world, or with the covetous, or extortioners, or with idolaters; for then must ye needs go out of the world.

1Co 5:11 But now I have written unto you not to keep company, if any man that is called a brother be a fornicator, or covetous, or an idolater, or a railer, or a drunkard, or an extortioner; with such an one no not to eat.

1Co 5:12 For what have I to do to judge them also that are without? do not ye judge them that are within?

1Co 5:13 But them that are without God judgeth. Therefore put away from among yourselves that wicked person.

HK