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Old 11-13-2009, 08:42 AM
 
Location: El Paso, TX
30,464 posts, read 22,599,417 times
Reputation: 14407

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Quote:
Originally Posted by Eusebius View Post
So much for you using the fallacy Ad Verecundiam or appealing to authority. It proves nothing.

The authorities the Jews appealed to were the Pharisees and Sadducees and scribes in Christ's day. See where that got them and Christ?
I am not attempting to prove anything to you, as you have shown yourself to be an enemy of the Cross. I am presenting accurate Biblical teaching for those who will benefit from it. And so that those like yourself, by rejecting the truth may be locked ever tighter into your error.

2 Thess. 2:11 And for this reason God will send upon them a deluding influence so that they might believe what is false, 12) in order that they all may be judged who did not believe the truth, but took pleasure in wickedness.

Those who desire the truth will recognize it when they see it. Those who hate the truth will attack the truth and will therefore be judged by the truth.
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Old 11-13-2009, 08:56 AM
 
17,966 posts, read 14,895,223 times
Reputation: 1005
Quote:
Originally Posted by Mike555 View Post
I am not attempting to prove anything to you, as you have shown yourself to be an enemy of the Cross. I am presenting accurate Biblical teaching for those who will benefit from it. And so that those like yourself, by rejecting the truth may be locked ever tighter into your error.

2 Thess. 2:11 And for this reason God will send upon them a deluding influence so that they might believe what is false, 12) in order that they all may be judged who did not believe the truth, but took pleasure in wickedness.

Those who desire the truth will recognize it when they see it. Those who hate the truth will attack the truth and will therefore be judged by the truth.
How does disproving your theology, which has pagan origins, make me an enemy of the cross? It makes me an enemy of your theology.

Concerning 2 Thess.2:11 which you quote above, it does not apply to me because I don't take pleasure in wickedness.

You are the one attacking the truth. You are the wolf guarding the hen house.
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Old 11-13-2009, 09:12 AM
 
Location: Seattle, Washington
8,435 posts, read 9,825,033 times
Reputation: 1724
Quote:
Originally Posted by sciotamicks View Post
Why was Jesus and God presented in the scripture with the same attributes?

No one can answer this question, therefore all of you have failed.
Jesus tells us.. So they will know he is sent from the Father...

John 5:36 "I have testimony weightier than that of John. For the very work that the Father has given me to finish, and which I am doing, testifies that the Father has sent me."

What part of that is confusing? How did OT prophet show they were from God? Didn't Moses have some pretty awesome works?
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Old 11-13-2009, 09:13 AM
 
Location: Prattville, Alabama
4,883 posts, read 5,856,572 times
Reputation: 819
Quote:
Originally Posted by Mike555 View Post
I am not attempting to prove anything to you, as you have shown yourself to be an enemy of the Cross. I am presenting accurate Biblical teaching for those who will benefit from it. And so that those like yourself, by rejecting the truth may be locked ever tighter into your error.

2 Thess. 2:11 And for this reason God will send upon them a deluding influence so that they might believe what is false, 12) in order that they all may be judged who did not believe the truth, but took pleasure in wickedness.

Those who desire the truth will recognize it when they see it. Those who hate the truth will attack the truth and will therefore be judged by the truth.
If what you believe is "Truth" and we are all deluded....then please explain the scriptures that Eusibius provided, verse by verse how Jesus can be GOD...when he expressly says he is NOT.

John 20:17 which is the term for "Teacher. Jesus is saying to her, "Do not touch Me, for not as yet have I ascended to My Father. Now go to My brethren, and say to them that I said, 'Lo! I am ascending to My Father and your Father, and My God and your God.'"

That verse precludes Jesus from being either the Father or being God. It also precludes Jesus from being the disciple's Father or the disciple's God. Jesus was in effect saying, "I am not your Father and I am not your God. Your Father and your God is above. I am going to where your Father and to where your God is. I am not ascending to myself.

Here are some more non-fuzzy verses where Christ is not God:

My God My God! Why didst Thou forsake Me?" (Mt.27:46; Mk.15:34).

"I (Christ) have not found your acts completed in the sight of My God" (Rev.3:2).

"The one who is conquering, him will I (Christ) be making a pillar in the temple of My God...and I will be writing on him the name of My God,and the name of the city of My God...which is descending out of heaven from My God” (Rev.3:12).

“The four animals and twenty-four elders make a distinction between Christ and their God” (see Rev.5:9,10).
_____
The apostle Paul knew Jesus had a God for he said:
"God sending His own Son" (Rom.8:3) does not say "God sent Himself".
"Blessed is the God...of our Lord Jesus Christ" (2Cor.1:3).

"...in my prayers that the God of our Lord Jesus Christ" (Eph.1:16).

Paul makes a distinction between Christ and his God..."I am thanking my God through Jesus Christ" (Rom.1:8). (see 1:9 too).
"I am thanking my God always concerning you over the grace of God which is being given you in Christ Jesus" (1Cor.1:4).

"The head of the woman is the man,
The Head of every man is Christ,
The Head of Christ is God" (see 1Cor.11:3).
Man tells the woman what to do. they are distinct.
Christ tells the man what to do. they are distinct.
God tells Christ what to do. They are distinct.

“For even if so be that there are those being termed gods, whether in heaven or on earth, even as there are many gods and many lords, 6 nevertheless for us there is one God , the Father, out of Whom all is, and we for Him, and one Lord, Jesus Christ, through Whom all is, and we through Him 7 but not in all is there this knowledge" (1Corinthians 8:5-7)

In the above verse, God is the source of all that is and Christ is the channel through which all came as denoted by the words "out of Whom" and "through Whom." Not in all is there this knowledge. Is this knowledge in you? It is in me.
____
Peter knew Jesus had a God for he said:
"Blessed be the God...of our Lord Jesus Christ" (1Pet.1:3).
____
The writer of Hebrews knew Jesus had a God for he wrote:
Jesus said "In the summary of the scroll it is written concerning Me--To do Thy will, O God." (Heb.10:7).
Now then, it is all too evident that Christ has a God and this God sent Christ and anointed Christ.

So how are we to take the verses which state Jesus is God? As you well know, "God" is a title. Christ is allowed to carry the title "God" because Christ is a subjector or placer. Even Jesus told the Jews that they can carry the title "God" in John 10:34. Those people who carried the title "God" or "Elohim" were the ones subjecting the people to the law of Moses as judges and arbiters.

Moses was given the title "God" as well (Ex.4:16) and Aaron was to be his prophet. So we have a prophet/God relationship. Yet we know that Moses was not truly """GOD""" in the absolute sense of the word. Moses was not a mode of God. Moses was not the One, the God Who was sending him. Moses was sent. He was not the sender.

"God sent His Son"

In Him in Whom our lot was cast also,
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Old 11-13-2009, 09:33 AM
 
Location: Seattle, Washington
8,435 posts, read 9,825,033 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by sciotamicks View Post
Katonjj....children do inherit the kingdom of God...yet the passage you are referring to here has nothing to do with a child's mind, but has everything to do with a child's love....that is the message here.

Katonjj,

maybe you, since everyone else has failed here in presenting their non-deity strawman...can you answer the begging question...why is God and Jesus portrayed with the same attributes as each other in Daniel and Revelation?

Look back a few posts where I point them out. Thanks.
Yeah... this is typical of your posts.. I did answer your post... But yet you don't answer mine other than to say that children can't be right about Jesus as the son and God as the father being plain to them.

So please explain to me why the verses I quote contradict the conclusion that Jesus is the Word of God and thus God himself. You can go back to the post and quote it again with an actual explanation.. but I assume that you won't as you have a problem actually addressing points brought up by the rest of us.. except to say that we are wrong and you are right...
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Old 11-13-2009, 09:38 AM
 
Location: Seattle, Wa
5,302 posts, read 6,024,768 times
Reputation: 424
Quote:
Originally Posted by ChristyGrl View Post
Christy hasn't conceded anything.....Christy is still waiting for her question to be answered....and someone (I'm not mentioning any names) keeps AVOIDING answering it.

Christy will continue to wait....but Christy thinks whales will fly first before that happens.

Tit for Tat Christy...like I said previously...I answered it, even if you don't understand it, or it isn't good enough for you, that is your problem...however I don't play childish games like you appear to be indulging in, so I will consider your answer....null and void. Carry on.
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Old 11-13-2009, 09:43 AM
 
Location: Seattle, Wa
5,302 posts, read 6,024,768 times
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Quote:
Originally Posted by katjonjj View Post
Jesus tells us.. So they will know he is sent from the Father...

John 5:36 "I have testimony weightier than that of John. For the very work that the Father has given me to finish, and which I am doing, testifies that the Father has sent me."

What part of that is confusing? How did OT prophet show they were from God? Didn't Moses have some pretty awesome works?

This doesn't answer it, but yet only answer that Christ was sent from God...which is apparent throughout the scriptrue. This is a specific question regarding the attributes and characteristics of the Ancient of Days/God and Christ..Not to mention they are given equal titles throughout scripture but here their attributes, that is, what they look like...proclaiming they are the same....I will repost:

Dan 7:9-10 I beheld till the thrones were cast down, and the Ancient of days did sit, whose garment [was] white as snow, and the hair of his head like the pure wool: his throne [was like] the fiery flame, [and] his wheels [as] burning fire. A fiery stream issued and came forth from before him: thousand thousands ministered unto him, and ten thousand times ten thousand stood before him: the judgment was set, and the books were opened.

Rev 1:14 His head and [his] hairs [were] white like wool, as white as snow; and his eyes [were] as a flame of fire;

Rev 1:16 And he had in his right hand seven stars: and out of his mouth went a sharp twoedged sword: and his countenance [was] as the sun shineth in his strength.

Rev 5:11-13 And I beheld, and I heard the voice of many angels round about the throne and the beasts and the elders: and the number of them was ten thousand times ten thousand, and thousands of thousands;
Saying with a loud voice, Worthy is the Lamb that was slain to receive power, and riches, and wisdom, and strength, and honour, and glory, and blessing. And every creature which is in heaven, and on the earth, and under the earth, and such as are in the sea, and all that are in them, heard I saying, Blessing, and honour, and glory, and power, [be] unto him that sitteth upon the throne, and unto the Lamb for ever and ever.

Rev 19:12 His eyes [were] as a flame of fire, and on his head [were] many crowns; and he had a name written, that no man knew, but he himself.

Rev 19:16 And he hath on [his] vesture and on his thigh a name written, KING OF KINGS, AND LORD OF LORDS. (He is LORD)

Rev 19:15 And out of his mouth goeth a sharp sword, that with it he should smite the nations: and he shall rule them with a rod of iron: and he treadeth the winepress of the fierceness and wrath of Almighty God.

Take note of Daniel 7 and Rev 1

Answer it please.
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Old 11-13-2009, 09:44 AM
 
Location: Prattville, Alabama
4,883 posts, read 5,856,572 times
Reputation: 819
Quote:
Originally Posted by sciotamicks View Post
Tit for Tat Chrysty...like I said previously...I answered it, even if you don't understand it, or it isn't good enough for you, that is your problem...however I don't play childish games like you appear to be indulging in, so I will consider your answer....null and void. Carry on.
You haven't answered it AT ALL and everyone posting here knows it as well as you.

How could Jesus be presented to GOD and still be GOD?

This is a very simple and forthright question....answer it, if you can.
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Old 11-13-2009, 09:49 AM
 
8,989 posts, read 13,767,896 times
Reputation: 750
Quote:
Originally Posted by ChristyGrl View Post
You haven't answered it AT ALL and everyone posting here knows it as well as you.

How could Jesus be presented to GOD and still be GOD?

This is a very simple and forthright question....answer it, if you can.
Curious....so when Jesus said, "I am" and the jews picked up stones to stone Him and said, we are stoning you because you claim to be God and Jesus said nothing to refute such blasphemy doesn't show Jesus as being God?
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Old 11-13-2009, 09:50 AM
 
Location: Seattle, Wa
5,302 posts, read 6,024,768 times
Reputation: 424
Quote:
Originally Posted by katjonjj View Post
Yeah... this is typical of your posts.. I did answer your post... But yet you don't answer mine other than to say that children can't be right about Jesus as the son and God as the father being plain to them.

So please explain to me why the verses I quote contradict the conclusion that Jesus is the Word of God and thus God himself. You can go back to the post and quote it again with an actual explanation.. but I assume that you won't as you have a problem actually addressing points brought up by the rest of us.. except to say that we are wrong and you are right...
I apologize, but I don't understand what you are getting at. The verses you quoted have nothing to do with this concept. I have addressed each and every point brought up by all of you, but what I have seen from all of you, is deflection and lack of spiritual discernment. It isn't my fault you have not seen the answers.

This is the deal...if you believe Christ is part of the Godhead, you will be blessed with the Holy Spirit...if you don't...you won't. Simple as that.

They are all connected.

Believing that Christ was just a man, is heresy, and personally, you are not a True Israelite.
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